Warning for potential buyers of GT4-Prologue (PAL-version)

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Hey, as long as people enjoy playing the game, surely it doesn't matter which control method they prefer.... If people are that worried about it, then why don't they race each other over the net when GT4 is available and settle the arguement as to which way is best!!!

Paul.
 
Originally posted by RedOak
well i use both thumbsticks to steer/accel/brake, so i hope it'll work on NTSCs.
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The most important reason why accel/brake together on one analogue stick doesn't make any sense for racing is that with it you cannot brake and accel at the same time. All fast drivers use this technique, so I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing this is not possible for GT4 Prologue. For instance, tapping the brake while accellerating through a corner pulls most FR cars into the turn, a very useful technique.

All the fast DS2 drivers I know use their thumb to press both the accelleration button (x) and brake ([]) and they can do that at the same time. I use the same technique now when I use the DS2, but I'm a wheel driver and prefer to use both my feet, much nicer then either of those two. ;)

The d-pad is only really better for driving because it is not in fact analoque, but completely digital. The code which interprets it in Gran Turismo helps out the driver a whole lot, and in fact it's for that reason a lot like driving with a steering assist.
 
The D-Pad on a DS2 is analouge, the harder you press it, the more the wheels turn, digital is on or off, so if they were digital it would be full lock, or no lock or if PD programmed a progressive turnning in then you would get that, but you don't. The only buttons on the DS2 that arn't analouge are the start, analouge and select buttons, and as we all know, in certain games GT3 included analouge is always on.
 
Originally posted by Arcticfox
The left analogue stick works just fine to steer the car in Prologue, you just can't set the right stick to accelerate/brake. You make it sound like none of the analogue sticks work.
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I'm sorry!

Well at least that's a little good news.
 
Originally posted by Famine
Human biology - your fingertips are far more sensitive to pressure than almost any other part of the body (they nearly outrank the clitoris in terms of nerve endings). By using your fingertips to control pressure and movement you have a far higher sensitivity than using your finger extensor/flexor muscles to move the sticks.
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The fingertip is highly sensitive to touch, correct, but that just means it gives you accurate information. However, to apply pressure in response to that touch, you're relying on the same set of flexors and extensors to move the thumb to apply the pressure to the button, and you must do so to a higher degree of accuracy.

I'm not arguing the point that you find it easier or better. But I will argue the point that it is a physiologically better way, or that it is inherently better due to the controller design.
 
Originally posted by live4speed
The D-Pad on a DS2 is analouge, the harder you press it, the more the wheels turn, digital is on or off, so if they were digital it would be full lock, or no lock or if PD programmed a progressive turnning in then you would get that, but you don't. The only buttons on the DS2 that arn't analouge are the start, analouge and select buttons, and as we all know, in certain games GT3 included analouge is always on.
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I will try to press the d-pad buttons so that I can get varying angles on the wheels of a car while standing still, but I'm not convinced. I can control the cars in GT3 the exact same way as if I was using the original non-analogue controller for the PSX or the controller (which doesn't have analogue buttons, only sticks). The analogue button was made to allow the (programmers to allow the) user to select between analogue and digital control on the PSX using the original DS.

Besides that ... if you read data from the controller, you can get information both on the digital position and the analogue state, no matter if analogue is on or off.
 
If it was digital you wouldn't get the varying degrees that the d-pad on the ds2 gives you. I find theres a massive difference between using a ds1 and a ds2.
 
I never use the d-pad for steering. I find that the increase travel of the stick gives you more finite control over small steering corrections. In other words, it helps cut down on over-corrections and the such. Besides, the stick is more realistic than the pad (neither is terribly realistic, but at least there is SOME travel in the stick as there is none in the pad).

Other controls I use:

square-accelerator
X-brake
O-emergency brake
triangle-reverse
R1-upshift
R2-downshift
 
Originally posted by live4speed
If it was digital you wouldn't get the varying degrees that the d-pad on the ds2 gives you. I find theres a massive difference between using a ds1 and a ds2.
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You're right, I just tested it. BUT I also noticed that you can turn the wheels almost instantly with the analogue stick from extreme left to extreme right while driving, which I could not reproduce at all with the d-pad. So it seems that my feeling of having some kind of steering support seems correct. I noticed this also when doing the first turn in TT4, you can correct the most crazy things with the d-pad which you cannot correct with the wheel or the analogue stick. Interesting ...
 
Now were down to personal preference, each to his own.
 
Originally posted by neon_duke
So, let's assume that the D-pad buttons move 1/8 inch. That means, to get the same degree of accuracy, you need to be able to move your fingers with an accuracy of 1/256th of an inch.

You decide which is easier.
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agreed!! i was thinking how to say that but now i dont have to lol

actually i use both the d-pad and analogue stick!

the d-pad for slight adjustments with a small 'tap'

and the analogue stick for any corner (i also find that the wheel turns quicker with the analogue stick so drifting is easier to control)*

*you can test this yourself by using the 'chase' view and the holding R1 (i think) then press down/across as hard as possible with each of them!

the bit in red was already posted so i just repeated what someone said! :O
 
32 degrees of pressure sensitivity on the buttons?!? Am I missing something here? How on earth do Sony get that on a single button on a gaming console? Or shouldn´t I ask? For some reason, I find that hard to believe.

Also, when using analogue right stick for acceleration, does R3 make the car go any faster? (in GT3)

I can see I´m gonna have to test this button using technique. I just naturally fell for the sticks after my days of Radio Controlled Cars and Heli´s. Using the sticks is natural for me, buttons adds to the feeling of playing a home video game to me, whereas using a stick for the steering almost makes me feel like there is a steering column attached, if you know what I mean.

Famine, I feel that if I am going around a corner like at Apricot Hill (turn 6 or 7, the long sweeper before the hairpin) sometimes I haven´t got the speed right so I need a slightly less amount of steering, I understand that you are saying that this is possible with the 32 degrees of pressure using the buttons. But sometimes I´m going into a situation where I need to make a quick correction to my steering and return back to where I was at the same degree of turning. So with the stick, a quick flick and your thumb possition returns to a position, nothing to do with pressure. If you try to do the same thing with the buttons, you have to :

1. release the pressure
2. move your thumb over to the Right button (unless you are using TWO fingers, Japanese style)
3. quickly press the Right button with the correct amount of pressure
4. bring your thumb back again to the Left button
5. reapply the required pressure exactly as it was before you started the correction manoever.
Also, doesn´t this pressure sensitivy on the D-Pad start to wear out after a while?

Respect to you Famine, and everyone else for all wise words given.

N.
 
Originally Sony said the buttons would have 256 degrees of sensitivity, but thats bollocks.

I'd be suprised if it was even 32, seems more like 4 to me. :irked:
 
I am not too bothered with a ps2 controller setup as driving with it just doesnt seem right for me. Im using gt force pro wheel
 
Is it true that you can get faster times with the Wheel then with the Controller with GT 3?I never tried the game with a wheel so i wouldn't know.
 
If you go to the GT3 forums theres a thread on that going on now, take a look.
 
I think both systems work the same. Some prefer the Dpad, others the thumbsticks. Let it be at that.

The issue was that on PAL systems, the right Thumbstick doesn't allow the player to set it at Accel/Brake.

Personnally, i think its dumb, as someone, somewhere, will find this configuration better.

Btw, i drive with both Thumbsticks.
 
In that GT3 forum I just mentioned somone mentions a site where the 4 fastest drivers in a competition are each uing a different control methond be it DS1, DS2 or a wheel ect.
 
I do alright with the d-pad. I can't stand using the sticks, but if you do, I'm OK with that.

I always thought the wheel would be easier. But, I'm use to the DS2, so I'll just stick with it.
 
Originally posted by RedOak

The issue was that on PAL systems, the right Thumbstick doesn't allow the player to set it at Accel/Brake.
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well im on a pal syatem and i can set the right stick to accel/brake so im not quite sure who told u that! :)
 
Originally posted by RedOak
The issue was that on PAL systems, the right Thumbstick doesn't allow the player to set it at Accel/Brake.
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Small correction :

The issue of this thread is that in the ASIAN versions of GT4-Prologue, the right Thumbstick doesn't allow the player to set it at Accel/Brake.

They also do not work with the MOMO Force steering wheel, while GT3 and GT3-C were compatible with this great wheel.

These informations lead to the suggestion that probably it will be the same for the future PAL-version of GT4-P. I think people should be aware of that. I personally would be VERY dissappointed if I discovered this only after buying the game.
 
Originally posted by live4speed
In that GT3 forum I just mentioned somone mentions a site where the 4 fastest drivers in a competition are each uing a different control methond be it DS1, DS2 or a wheel ect.
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That would be this one.

http://www.davidanderson.org.uk/kots.htm
 
Originally posted by Gt fein
I have the demo. You can use the right analog stick for throttle/braking. Didn't use a steering wheel, but in the options menu it mentions the GT Force and GT Force Pro. This is such a tease, makes me want GT4 more.
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So this thread should take away some doubt : according to GT Planet member Gt fein at least the US demo version "Prologue : Toyota Edition" supports the use of both analog sticks AND of the GT Force wheel. :)
 
I personally use the D pad and I cant stand using the stick.

I simply cant control it as well as I'd like:(
 
Two crap methods of controlling a car. Either a rather close to digital d-pad that uses steering help, or a thumbstick with a massive dead zone, non linearity, and steering help.

To each his own between those two indeed!

The fastest way is a steering wheel, but only when the game supports it properly (without any "aids"). GT3 has a very, very disappointing support for wheels. Hopefully GT4 won't have any of that crap, and is just pure, linear steering.
 
Originally posted by cubits
GT3 has a very, very disappointing support for wheels. Hopefully GT4 won't have any of that crap, and is just pure, linear steering.
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I feel the same. However imo the steering support in the GT-series is total, i.e. also for the analog sticks or whatever method used to steer.

There's less steering aid on dirt roads, you can see this when you go from dirt to tarmac : the angle of the front wheels changes strongly without changing the steering wheel angle.
 
Originally posted by cubits
GT3 has a very, very disappointing support for wheels. Hopefully GT4 won't have any of that crap, and is just pure, linear steering. [/B]
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What the f$%^ do you mean exactly? I so far only know one game in existance that can match GT3 in terms of wheel support (ok GT4 and the DTM Mod for F1C on PC), and I'd like to know what the h&(#$ you base this on?
 
Arwin,
Probably steering support is not the right word, but when cubits writes "linear steering" I see what he means (at least I think I see).

When you turn the wheels, you can turn as far as you want in GT, the front wheels are never turned too far. I call that "steering aid". This became first clear to me when I started with Grand Prix Legends : I was constantly turning the front wheels too much in GPL, because I was used to push the analog buttons completely to the most outer position.
This steering aid is a pitty imo, as you loose half of the joy.

You can e.g. not, in small slow corners, turn in hard with understeer, so that the front wheels slide the first meters. I miss this control in GT.
 
Err, for starters...

Live for speed, F1C, SCGT, F1 2001, F1 2002, Rally trophy, RD1, RD2, Netkar, Racer, Nascar Thunder, Nascar Racing xxxx, and pretty much any pc semi-sim has better wheel support. Not only does the actual handling of the wheel blow GT3 out of the water, but most of them let you use a proper h-gate shifter, clutch, and analogue handbrake. Now, i'm not too fussed about the addon hardware (although it would be lovely!), but they could at least get the basics right!

GT3 has no "linear steering" option, it has no option to turn off the speed sensitivity, it has an inbuilt lag in the steering response to replicate the correct lock of a steering wheel which makes it feel like poo (simulation mods steering is the worst example of that feature).

There is just way too much complexity where it isnt needed, and for all this complexity, there isn't any more customisation than 4 crap settings (beginner to sim). If those 4 had be presets for a list of "aids" it would be alright, cos then i could turn them off and have proper steering.

As great a game as GT3 is, the steering wheel support is just awful. I base it on reality, i base it on pc sim handling, and i base it on facts.
 
Well I experience driving without TCS/ASM and on Simulation Mode differently than you that's for sure. I'm surprised you find Simulation Mode the worst example (see my post in the other thread). I particularly love the way the weight transfer of the car can be felt in the wheel, which very few other games do convincingly. Anyway, GT4 Prologue fixes all this.
 
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