Was "Veyron poll" - Then "VAG/GM discussion" - Now "Veyron discussion again"

[GT4_Rule]

Look at german profits. And it rises on average about 17% each year. Never mind that BMW mercedes and audi are all planning onslaughts of new vehicles in teh next couple years.

GM do have power. But not the power to start making a profit anytime soon. In a powerlist VAG would probably be ahead of them. Mercedes used to be like the 4th most powerful in the world. Then they brought chrysler and that went belly up. They are back on their way upwards though. Even audi was outselling mercedes at one point.

Surprise, surprise - the British magazine Car said for two years, 2004 and 2005, that M-B sales have been dropping and the company is starting to run debts due to poor quality on M-B cars. Now, isnt that a surprise? M-B quality do suck by the way. Their interior in some cars are just average. No wonder they are dropping.

VAG is a world market to. They sell cars in every continent, and in most countries. If I look it up they probably outsell GM in africa and asia along with europe.

No, GM is the largest company in the world still, followed by Chrysler and Toyota. No VAG mentioned anywhere. Kia is fast growing as well as Hyundai. Volkswagens dont sell well in North America; I havent seen too many of the new Jettas out there yet.

MB sells something like 2.2 million cars a year. Dont try and tell me thats not alot

That isnt a lot...Camry outsells them in North America alone!

You guys in Europe gets the crappy Japanese cars because the Japanese manufacturers' priorities are either in their homeland or in North America. Asia and NA has so much more population than Europe that the Japanese makers often put Europe on the bottom of the priority. Toyota Previa was discontinued here 10 years ago, replaced with a better looking, even more reliable Sienna. But you guys in Britain still gets the Previa. Carolla Verso? Toyota Aygo? Nissan Patrol? They are all crap cars compared to NA lineups by the same company.

 

[Joey D]

Very well said GT4_Rule! If I hadn't already given you rep, you would've gotten some just then.

 

[Poverty]

Surprise, surprise - the British magazine Car said for two years, 2004 and 2005, that M-B sales have been dropping and the company is starting to run debts due to poor quality on M-B cars. Now, isnt that a surprise? M-B quality do suck by the way. Their interior in some cars are just average. No wonder they are dropping.



No, GM is the largest company in the world still, followed by Chrysler and Toyota. No VAG mentioned anywhere. Kia is fast growing as well as Hyundai. Volkswagens dont sell well in North America; I havent seen too many of the new Jettas out there yet.



That isnt a lot...Camry outsells them in North America alone!

You guys in Europe gets the crappy Japanese cars because the Japanese manufacturers' priorities are either in their homeland or in North America. Asia and NA has so much more population than Europe that the Japanese makers often put Europe on the bottom of the priority. Toyota Previa was discontinued here 10 years ago, replaced with a better looking, even more reliable Sienna. But you guys in Britain still gets the Previa. Carolla Verso? Toyota Aygo? Nissan Patrol? They are all crap cars compared to NA lineups by the same company.

1. MB quality is only crap for their price. Its still above BMW's interiors. 2.2 million might not be alot but its more than caddillac and MB are more expensive. They are on course to sell 3+ million this year, and thats only for their cars. They also make heavy duty vehicles and buses.

2.Chrysler is owned and controlled by Mercedes. MB themselves doesnt run debts they just wernt making a profit. That should change this year.

3. GM may still be the biggest followed by toyota and then DAIMLER-chrysler (thats MB for you) but how can you deny VAG is not one of the most powerful car manufacturers out there when last year it outsold GM and is on course to do so again this year by a great margin?

4. Volkswagen sell around the same amount of cars as audi,bmw and mercedes do combined.

5. The camry is a good cheap car. Boring but cheap. It wont sell in europe.

6. Europe doesnt get crappy american cars at all. We get better ones than you do, Type-R etc.

 

[GT4_Rule]

Last time I read the Car magazine it said that if you want to import cars yourself the heres the top 10 cars, and the Integra Type-R was at the top. But depends on which Type-R you mean though. We get Integra Type-R wannabe as Acura RSX Type-S A-Spec. Its as good as Integra Type-R.

The crap interior is enough to turn away buyers. "Car" had a special article dedicated to owners of crap M-B who gave up on M-B after being treated horrendously and their car breaking down. But again, depends on which model you got and which dealer you go to.

Audi is part of VAG....

I was saying, Europe gets crap Japanese cars. We get more exciting ones here. We have Civic Si Type-R here, you guys to. You guys dont have the RSX/Integra. You guys dont have the Celica. You guys dont get the Mustang in its original price. You guys dont have the "proper" Carolla. You guys dont have Maxima/Altima/Sentra.

 

[Joey D]

1. MB quality is only crap for their price. Its still above BMW's interiors. 2.2 million might not be alot but its more than caddillac and MB are more expensive.

2.Chrysler is owned and controlled by Mercedes. MB themselves doesnt run debts they just wernt making a profit. That should change this year.

3. GM may still be the biggest followed by toyota and then DAIMLER-chrysler (thats MB for you) but how can you deny VAG is not one of the most powerful car manufacturers out there when last year it outsold GM and is on course to do so again this year by a great margin?

4. Volkswagen sell around the same amount of cars as audi,bmw and mercedes do combined.

5. The camry is a good cheap car. Boring but cheap. It wont sell in europe.

6. Europe doesnt get crappy american cars at all. We get better ones than you do, Type-R etc.

1. Mercedes is far from crap, and once again MB are sold through out the world where Caddy's stick pretty much to the US. A few get to Europe, but they are way to expensive to be considered.

2. DiamlerChysler is a merger, both companies operate within one another. Ask anyone in the Detroit area, MB screwed up a goodly chunk of Chysler.

3. Because it's not the most powerful, it's not even the thrid most powerful. I bet Hyandai pulls in more money since they build other things besides cars.

4. How can VW out sell Audi when they are the same company? It's like saying Chevy out sold Saturn, same company. VAG out sold x is a better statement.

5. It will sell in Europe because it sells everywhere, the Camry is a marvel of engineering, no other car can be that inexpensive, that reliable, and have that many people buy it. The Camry is probably the best car ever produced.

6. You guys have your own slew of crappy cars.

 

[GT4_Rule]

5. It will sell in Europe because it sells everywhere, the Camry is a marvel of engineering, no other car can be that inexpensive, that reliable, and have that many people buy it. The Camry is probably the best car ever produced.

I disagree on this - the Camry isnt sporty, it isnt cheap and it isnt beautiful. All thats good about it is that its is perennially bulletproof. Its not the best car made - if I had to choose it will go to an American car.

Edit: Thanks BX

 

[Joey D]

I disagree on this - the Camry isnt sporty, it isnt cheap and it isnt beautiful. All thats good about it is that its is perennially bulletproof. Its not the best car made - if I had to choose it will go to an American car.

Edit: Thanks BX

It's still the best selling car in America, so Toyota did something right. I think it's boring as hell, but it's ment to move people, not emotions. More or less it's basically the Ford F-150 of cars.

 

[GT4_Rule]

Yeah. Its boring. No involvement, excellent for basic transportation. If you want more out of that, then better look elsewhere But Toyota has the passenger car formula right - all they need now is a truly exciting car.

 

[Poverty]

1. Mercedes is far from crap, and once again MB are sold through out the world where Caddy's stick pretty much to the US. A few get to Europe, but they are way to expensive to be considered.

2. DiamlerChysler is a merger, both companies operate within one another. Ask anyone in the Detroit area, MB screwed up a goodly chunk of Chysler.

3. Because it's not the most powerful, it's not even the thrid most powerful. I bet Hyandai pulls in more money since they build other things besides cars.

4. How can VW out sell Audi when they are the same company? It's like saying Chevy out sold Saturn, same company. VAG out sold x is a better statement.

5. It will sell in Europe because it sells everywhere, the Camry is a marvel of engineering, no other car can be that inexpensive, that reliable, and have that many people buy it. The Camry is probably the best car ever produced.

6. You guys have your own slew of crappy cars.

1.Caddies for MB price aint gonna sell.

2. Chrysler screwed up MB with its cost cutting procedures. Chrysler get free chassis' thats are lightyears ahead of what they had before.

3. I never said it was the most powerful. They probably are in the top 5 though and at most 7th.

4. What? Volkswagen sells more cars than audi,bmw and MB put together. Whats there not to understand with this statement. Theyre not the same company therye a group that works together. Audi does not come under VW. VW is not a umbrella company to audi.

5. The camry wont sell in europe otherwise toyota would have sent it over. Its too low class for us europeans. We get the much better, much more classier avenesis.

6. Yes, especially if theyre italian, or french.

I was saying, Europe gets crap Japanese cars. We get more exciting ones here. We have Civic Si Type-R here, you guys to. You guys dont have the RSX/Integra. You guys dont have the Celica. You guys dont get the Mustang in its original price. You guys dont have the "proper" Carolla. You guys dont have Maxima/Altima/Sentra.

The Si is no type-r. You cannot compare a type r to a si. We got the si and type r. Type-r sold well.

We dont get the integra no.

We do or did get the celica. Sold prettty well.

No we dont get the mustang in its original price. Doesnt really sell.

We did get the propper corolla and arguably we now get a better version than you guys. Doesnt really sell.

We did get the maxima and do get the altima. Dont get the sentra. None of thsoe sold well.

 

[Joey D]

Yeah. Its boring. No involvement, excellent for basic transportation. If you want more out of that, then better look elsewhere But Toyota has the passenger car formula right - all they need now is a truly exciting car.

Which is why they need to bring back the Supra, they do that Toyota will be more golden then they already are. They have the passanger sedan down, they have the pick up truck down, they have the mini van down, they sort of have the SUV down, and they have the basic compact down with the Corolla.

Speaking of engineering achievement, look no futher then Toyota. Those guys are geniuses to come up with such a good formula like that.

1.Caddies for MB price aint gonna sell.

2. Chrysler screwed up MB with its cost cutting procedures. Chrysler get free chassis' thats are lightyears ahead of what they had before.

3. I never said it was the most powerful. They probably are in the top 5 though and at most 7th.

4. What? Volkswagen sells more cars than audi,bmw and MB put together. Whats there not to understand with this statement. Theyre not the same company therye a group that works together. Audi does not come under VW. VW is not a umbrella company to audi.

5. The camry wont sell in europe otherwise toyota would have sent it over. Its too low class for us europeans. We get the much better, much more classier avenesis.

6. Yes, especially if theyre italian, or french.

1. In Europe you are right, in American you are wrong.

2. And they make better cars that sell better. Alla 300C.

3. Which is crap in the scheme of things. Toyota, Honda, GM, Hyandai, and others have bigger and better companies. You need to sell more then just cars to be considered powerful, Honda sells anything with an engine, Toyota has big trucks, so does GM and Hyandai has ships.

4. I don't think VW sells 11 million cars itself every year world wide. I don't see to many VW's on the road in the states and unless everyone in Europe drive one (which they don't, I was in Germany and didn't see a rediculious number of them) I can't say they sell that many. Audi is VW, VW is Audi. It's like saying Chevy is different from Pontiac...it's not. The engines are pretty much all the same, I can't begin to think of all the cars with the 1.8T in them. Audi and VW are one in the same.

5. You make it sound like Europeans are all stuck up jackasses. I know they aren't but the way you sound it makes them sound that way. I'm sure there are poorer Europeans.

 

[GT4_Rule]

1.Caddies for MB price aint gonna sell.

2. Chrysler screwed up MB with its cost cutting procedures. Chrysler get free chassis' thats are lightyears ahead of what they had before.

3. I never said it was the most powerful. They probably are in the top 5 though and at most 7th.

4. What? Volkswagen sells more cars than audi,bmw and MB put together. Whats there not to understand with this statement. Theyre not the same company therye a group that works together. Audi does not come under VW. VW is not a umbrella company to audi.

5. The camry wont sell in europe otherwise toyota would have sent it over. Its too low class for us europeans. We get the much better, much more classier avenesis.

6. Yes, especially if theyre italian, or french.

1. Because of prejudice. Period.

2. ----

3. ----

4. ....Dont you understand this: Audi = part of Volkswagen. That means that you include Audi sales figures into Volkswagen, not competitors'.

5. So you call Americans low-class eh? Well, Camry wont be the best-selling vehicle if it didnt have a mix of class, reliability and price. Toyota nailed it on all. Just needs more excitement.

Being too elegant kills you know that.....the Phantom is crap I say. Ugly as hell. Big as a elephant. Pointless as crap. Thats a "shoebox on wheels" as "Car" magazine says.

6. French makes bad cars and its known everywhere....Citroens are designed horribly as well as Peugeots. But they try. And thats a good thing.

Edit: I said Civic Si Type-R .....not Civic Si.

Edit Edit: Hmm...if Mustangs dont sell well, then whats up with the AutoCar article I read that said "very positive reaction to the Mustang" Now too bad Ford doesnt have official export to UK, because I think Ford can make a few extra bucks that way.

 

[Poverty]

1. Because of prejudice. Period.

2. ----

3. ----

4. ....Dont you understand this: Audi = part of Volkswagen. That means that you include Audi sales figures into Volkswagen, not competitors'.

5. So you call Americans low-class eh? Well, Camry wont be the best-selling vehicle if it didnt have a mix of class, reliability and price. Toyota nailed it on all. Just needs more excitement.

Being too elegant kills you know that.....the Phantom is crap I say. Ugly as hell. Big as a elephant. Pointless as crap. Thats a "shoebox on wheels" as "Car" magazine says.

6. French makes bad cars and its known everywhere....Citroens are designed horribly as well as Peugeots. But they try. And thats a good thing.

Edit: I said Civic Si Type-R .....not Civic Si.

Edit Edit: Hmm...if Mustangs dont sell well, then whats up with the AutoCar article I read that said "very positive reaction to the Mustang" Now too bad Ford doesnt have official export to UK, because I think Ford can make a few extra bucks that way.

1. No because MB are the better cars. Alot of people think if its american its the best thing you can buy. Especially since all the celebs bang on about caddies.

4. No im a VAG freak and I dont understand that. I did it for the purpose of the comparison to show you just how many cars VW sells.

5. I agree. Dont agree about the camry having class though. Its a pretender.

6. The french can make banging hot hatches, just sometimes reliability and fit and finish fails them. New clio is a great supermini.

7. There is no such thing as a civic Si Type-R

8. They dont sell well because they dont have propper dealers.

 

[Famine]

I was saying, Europe gets crap Japanese cars. We get more exciting ones here. We have Civic Si Type-R here, you guys to. You guys dont have the RSX/Integra. You guys dont have the Celica. You guys dont get the Mustang in its original price. You guys dont have the "proper" Carolla. You guys dont have Maxima/Altima/Sentra.

Just a little curious where you're getting your facts.

We had the DC2 Integra - which only made it to the US in the softer, heavier Acura Integra Type-R format - though Honda as yet have no plans for the softer, heavier DC5.

We DO get the Celica - and, unlike the US market, we still get it.

Not sure what a "proper" Corolla is, but we get the same saloon you do along with an estate (wagon) and hatchback version.

We don't get the Maxima/Altima/Sentra - though we did get the Maxima until 2002 when it was discontinued after poor sales. As was the Camry in 2003 - and we got both saloon and estate (wagon) versions of that too.

Oh, and we get Mitsubishi Lancer Evolutions - the most powerful sold on any world market (up to 400hp) - and we got the R33 and R34 Skylines. Did those boring crap Japanese cars make it your way?


If you want to know more about what cars Europe gets, have a look at the Parker's website - though it primarily deals with the UK market.

(note: VW AND Audi are part of VAG. Audi is not part of VW. Similarly, Ferrari and FIAT are part of FIAT SpA, and Ferrari is not part of FIAT)

 

[GT4_Rule]

They dont have proper dealers meaning that Ford does not have an official import for UK and that all the Mustangs sold in UK are by the hands of individual importers. If Ford sold Mustangs at dealerships then it will sell well. Look at the positive reactions to them.

Theres no such thing as Civic Si Type-R? Well, what do I see on the rocker panels of the Civics?

Edit: The proper Carolla is the sedan - not some Carolla Verso that looks ugly.

I didnt know that you guys still get Celicas . Toyota discontinued them! *sarcasm*

We dont get Skylines - because as someone else said, out of 9 people who actually wants to buy an overrated overpriced car, half of them are in jail.

We do get Lancer Evos - or why would Car & Driver have them road tested?

 

[the Interceptor]

Can we get back to the original question please?

If you get too offtopic, this thread might be closed, and who wants that?

 

[Joey D]

1. No because MB are the better cars. Alot of people think if its american its the best thing you can buy. Especially since all the celebs bang on about caddies.

4. No im a VAG freak and I dont understand that. I did it for the purpose of the comparison to show you just how many cars VW sells.

5. I agree. Dont agree about the camry having class though. Its a pretender.

6. The french can make banging hot hatches, just sometimes reliability and fit and finish fails them. New clio is a great supermini.

7. There is no such thing as a civic Si Type-R

8. They dont sell well because they dont have propper dealers.

1. Wrong most people think if it's American it's crap, I get that vibe from you quite often.

4. VW IS AUDI! Is Lexus not Toyota?

5. Everyone drives Camry's in America, rich people, poor people, middle class people, whites, blacks, asians, hispanics, men, women, gays, straights, conservatives, liberals, etc. It's not any specific groups car.

7. He corrected himself.

If you get too offtopic, this thread might be closed, and who wants that?

Me so I can get some damn work done

 

[Poverty]

What happened to Mclarens angel?

 

[Poverty]

1. Wrong most people think if it's American it's crap, I get that vibe from you quite often.

4. VW IS AUDI! Is Lexus not Toyota?

5. Everyone drives Camry's in America, rich people, poor people, middle class people, whites, blacks, asians, hispanics, men, women, gays, straights, conservatives, liberals, etc. It's not any specific groups car.

7. He corrected himself.



Me so I can get some damn work done

1. Only from car enthiusiasts.
4. No. Yes.
5. Brits dont drive it.

 

[GT4_Rule]

Me so I can get some damn work done

I agree.

 

[Joey D]

1. Which is wrong, because not all American cars aren't crap.
4. Oxymoron, if Lexus is Toyota, Audi is VW...go look at an A3 and tell me that's not a Golf with a 2.0T and AWD.
5. Europe is a big place.

 

[Famine]

Edit: The proper Carolla is the sedan - not some Carolla Verso that looks ugly.

Note: Corolla.

And I pointed out to you that we get the same saloon (sedan) that you do AND a hatchback AND an estate (wagon). The Verso is a different model - a "mini-MPV".

We do get Lancer Evos - or why would Car & Driver have them road tested?

As I said, we get the most powerful Evolutions sold on any world market (which includes the Japanese market), and included the 400hp figure. These cars are not sold in the US.

So you get the "boring" and "crap" low power version of that, while we get the "more exciting" one.

4. Oxymoron, if Lexus is Toyota, Audi is VW...go look at an A3 and tell me that's not a Golf with a 2.0T and AWD.

I pointed this out to you already.

VAG is the group. The group owns the marques Audi, Volkswagen, Seat, Bugatti and Skoda. VW is not part of Audi, and Audi is not part of VW. They are both part of VAG.

 

[Poverty]

1. Which is wrong, because not all American cars aren't crap.
4. Oxymoron, if Lexus is Toyota, Audi is VW...go look at an A3 and tell me that's not a Golf with a 2.0T and AWD.
5. Europe is a big place.

1. Since 2005.
4. Golf is the A3. Rover used honda chassis'. Are you going to tell me they are both the same company?
5. Not big enough for the camry to make suffiecient sales it seems.

 

[Joey D]

1. Since 2005.
4. Golf is the A3. Rover used honda chassis'. Are you going to tell me they are both the same company?
5. Not big enough for the camry to make suffiecient sales it seems.

1. You are wrong but you'll never understand that, American cars became a lot better in 1998.
4. I know nothing about Rover, so I'm not making an assumption on that one. But the VAG group is all the same, just like the GM group is all the same.

I pointed this out to you already.

VAG is the group. The group owns the marques Audi, Volkswagen, Seat, Bugatti and Skoda. VW is not part of Audi, and Audi is not part of VW. They are both part of VAG.

So why does everyone tell me Opel isn't part of GM then? If all these companies are part of the same group why is Opel not part of GM?

 

[Famine]

I have no idea why they say this, because they're wrong.

 

[Poverty]

1. You are wrong but you'll never understand that, American cars became a lot better in 1998.
4. I know nothing about Rover, so I'm not making an assumption on that one. But the VAG group is all the same, just like the GM group is all the same.



So why does everyone tell me Opel isn't part of GM then? If all these companies are part of the same group why is Opel not part of GM?

1. Starting with?
2. Wrong
3. Opel is a part of GM.

 

[Joey D]

I have no idea why they say this, because they're wrong.

I just go by what people tell me on this forum, I guess if I use there same logic they will understand.

But VW isn't much different the Audi, just like Chevy isn't much different then Pontiac. It's all platform sharing within the same group.

1. Starting with?
2. Wrong

Everything that came out in 1997, 1998, and 1999. Most American cars went under the knife those years and got a big change to make them better.

How the hell am I wrong? THE VAG GROUP IS ALL THE SAME, platform sharing, engine sharing, everything is built off of everything else.

 

[GT4_Rule]

Note: Corolla.

And I pointed out to you that we get the same saloon (sedan) that you do AND a hatchback AND an estate (wagon). The Verso is a different model - a "mini-MPV".

Ive always thought that it was spelled Carolla since thats the way Japanese pronounce it. Anyways.

We dont have the estate and hatchback because the Yaris takes care of the hatchback; we arent too hot of estates here either.

As I said, we get the most powerful Evolutions sold on any world market (which includes the Japanese market), and included the 400hp figure. These cars are not sold in the US.

So you get the "boring" and "crap" low power version of that, while we get the "more exciting" one.

Please tell me, what makes UK so special? Wheres the proof by internet?

VAG is the group. The group owns the marques Audi, Volkswagen, Seat, Bugatti and Skoda. VW is not part of Audi, and Audi is not part of VW. They are both part of VAG.

VW acquired Audi, Skoda, Seat and Bugatti didnt it? 💡

Edit: Someone put a negative comment here. Abuser.

 

[the Interceptor]

*cough* Veyron *cough*

 

[Joey D]

Please tell me, what makes UK so special? Wheres the proof by internet?

Its the FQ something something something.

*cough* Veyron *cough*

Veyron = VAG

 

[Poverty]

I just go by what people tell me on this forum, I guess if I use there same logic they will understand.

But VW isn't much different the Audi, just like Chevy isn't much different then Pontiac. It's all platform sharing within the same group.



Everything that came out in 1997, 1998, and 1999. Most American cars went under the knife those years and got a big change to make them better.

How the hell am I wrong? THE VAG GROUP IS ALL THE SAME, platform sharing, engine sharing, everything is built off of everything else.

Wrong again.

VW and audi used to do extensive platform sharing. They are now stopping this for most their lineup bar the smaller vehicles. They didnt want audi's and VW's to drive similarily.

Audi controls lamborghini.
VW controls all the other companies.
VAG controls them entirely.

Its basically like that but Ive worded it pretty badly.