We bought a BETA release...

[Sarkazmo]

I don't know if this should be a part of another thread or what. I'm not really bitching and whining here. More sad than anything, I guess.

I love Gran Turismo. I've played it since the very first one on the PS1. Although I didn't get into GT5 until Nov 2012 so the majority of the patches were long done and I got a stable product. When I bought GT6 I was aware that I wasn't getting a complete product and that features were to be added. But I didn't buy GT6 expecting to get a BETA product and that's what I, what we all, got. I'm getting more and more annoyed with GT6 every day it seems. I started driving in cockpit view with all the racing info off to get a more immersive, authentic experience from my racing. Now I find myself ignoring great cars that don't have a detailed interior so suddenly my choice of cars has shrunken greatly. Ok, not every car is premium, I understand that. Then there are the cars that have a 'detailed' interior but the gauges don't work. Ok, so it's not perfect, maybe they'll fix it in a patch. The sound really didn't bother me much until I started playing (again) SimBin's Race 07 with various addons like GTR Evolution, GT Power Expansion, The Retro Expansion, and more. Now the sound in GT6 is annoying and unfulfilling on the whole. The sound in Race 07 is amazing compared to GT6. I keep buying cars and testing to keep my interest in GT6 but it's honestly getting really hard to care about it. Having to do the Redbull races over and over to grind for the cash needed to keep doing this is also getting to be nothing but a chore. I could do B-Spec as a diversion but it's not in the game yet. I could race online to freshen things up but the physics change when online so all of my carefully practiced braking and turn in points are completely wrong online as well as a lack of traction compared to local (offline) races. I could use the course creator to inject some much needed variety but it's not in the game yet. I could use the DLC cars and tracks to add life to game as well but those too are missing. It took two months of patches to get a PP display that changed as you adjusted the power limiter! I spent $75 (more than I've ever spent at one time on any other game) acquiring this game for launch day and I really regret that now. I have a rule about prepurchasing and I broke it to be in on the ground floor of GT6. Unfortunately the ground floor in this case is an unfinished foundation.

Sark

PS: If you want to try out Race 07 (with GTR Evolution and Formula Race Room addons) to see for yourself the difference you can get it currently in the Reboot 1.0 bundle on Bundle Stars for only $2.99 with five other games for only the next 25 days. The rest of the Race 07 stuff I have came from other bundles although they can be purchased separately if you don't want to wait for a bundle deal on them.

 

[VBR]

 

[ParkerMO125]

I'm cranky

 

[LVracerGT]

I am simply curious, what kind of replies are you hoping to get out of your post? Are you looking for people who feel the same as you, so you can "not" whine and cry together? Or are you looking for someone to tell you you're wrong? I mean newsflash, everyone knows all this already, this post is being grinded just as much as the redbull events...

News flash, this is the reviews and feedback section. The OP has every right to create a thread about how he feels about the game to guage response and discuss the topic with other people.

I feel the same way as the OP, and if PD actually put out a full title and not a BETA this topic wouldn't even be a topic. Common sense.

 

[ParkerMO125]

Sorry I'm cranky

 

[LVracerGT]

Ok, there are several threads saying the exact same thing, minus advertising another game for almost half the post. And yes, he did gauge response, (me) wanting to know what kind of replies he expects from this? And I'm sure you already know this, beings its common sense, but the idea of the game being a "beta", is a point of opinion, because of that fact, its incorrect for you to say if and when this topic wouldn't be a topic. I really was just curious as to what responses he is hoping to get from this post, that's just like all the other ones.

Well your post certainly came off as aggressive, as does this one saying the OP "advertised another game for half the post." The OP was simply stating how playing another (much older) racing game, albeit for the PC, has ruined GT6 due to how incomplete and lacking it is. I don't see how that's "advertising" another game, just another comment taken out of context for the sake of argument which is happening far to often in these forums.

 

[ParkerMO125]

Arguing is not my specialty so I'm done here

Just for the record, I was orginally talking to the OP, not arguing with you . Ps. **** mondays

 

[eran0004]

So... how are any of those beta issues?

 

[GTP_CargoRatt]

News flash, this is the reviews and feedback section. The OP has every right to create a thread about how he feels about the game to guage response and discuss the topic with other people.

I feel the same way as the OP, and if PD actually put out a full title and not a BETA this topic wouldn't even be a topic. Common sense.

As do I. 👍 I am in the opinion of that this is nothing more that a beta release, with the consumers left to find the bugs. I say this because most of these bugs should have been found with simple testing before releasing the game. I've said this before in another thread but I'll say it again here. Not just with PD, but this practice seems to be the norm for many games nowadays with the ability to update the game through online patches. Its as if these companies feel that they can just release a mostly untested game and let the consumer find the bugs, then update them through online patches. It wasn't like that back in the day, before online gaming. Companies were forced to put out their best game possible, knowing they couldn't go back and fix them. Companies have become much more "lax" in that aspect nowadays, in my opinion.

 

[Sarkazmo]

In the PC world of gaming you have Kickstarting (and other crowd funding projects) as well as Steam's Green Light program which allow devs to get money upfront to develop their game to it's full potential. You're buying a game in development with bugs and problems and missing features. You know this up front, you're fully aware of the state of the game, and typically you get to help shape the game through interaction with the devs and the community. You may gain some special bonus or title or something that shows you supporting the game from the beginning. You know ALL of this going into the purchase. I'm fine with this. This is not an issue. All parties go into the agreement with their eyes open aware of what's what.

That is NOT what happened with GT6. PD is a high end, AAA, game dev with deep pockets and the help of Sony. They projected this outward appearance of a complete, finished title. If one was not in the loop, keeping up on Gran Turismo forums such as this, one would not have known when plopping down their money to buy it at the game shop that they were buying an incomplete product much less a work in progress. This is not right and not fair to the consumer. PD was not as forward as they needed to be to make sure that the customer knew exactly what they were getting. PD also does not go out of it's way to tell the community anything other than the most general and basic of information and then try and sell the game more so the consumers have no idea what's going on or when action is going to take place on the issues and features. This lack of being up front is what annoys me most of all. IF I had been told up front the actual state of things I would probably have still bought the game. I mean I did buy it knowing that some of the features were to be added later. PD made a lot of promises to consumers and so far they're not holding up their end of the deal. For some inexplicable reason some people are perfectly OK with this. I'm not one of those people.

Sark

 

[MLRSparco]

it's sad to see so many people blinding defending this game and PD as if they've done something so great,there are so many features missing with no type of ETA.

It's almost as if they've forgotten what they've promised us,and what's more hilarious is that they won't even own up and apologies or even tweet out a heads up on the situation,they'd rather keep us in the dark then give us any info.I'm still confused and left wondering what they were doing the last 4 years.

 

[Squanto]

GT5 was Beta too ... we got GT5 Spec 2.0 almost a year later .... we are almost 3 months since release ... so I guess we have a long wait ahead of us ...

Guess its time to change my avatar here ... nothing festive any more ....

 

[TenEightyOne]

it's sad to see so many people blinding defending this game and PD as if they've done something so great,there are so many features missing with no type of ETA.

It's almost as if they've forgotten what they've promised us,and what's more hilarious is that they won't even own up and apologies or even tweet out a heads up on the situation,they'd rather keep us in the dark then give us any info.I'm still confused and left wondering what they were doing the last 4 years.

I take the opposite view to you. I'm happy with the game as it is now despite accepting that it could be better. I'm confident that PD support the software with updates over time, as @Squanto said it took a year for GT5 Spec 2.0 to come, 3 months into GT6 I'm not concerned.

Nor do I think PD have any "owning up" to do or that their information is really that poor. Maybe it's because I'm "older" but I'm happy that information comes when it comes, I don't feel like my game is broken either online or offline and I'm patient enough that the wait for updates or news really isn't bothering me.

I respect your opinion, don't get me wrong, I just disagree with it wholeheartedly.

 

[Imari]

I don't feel like my game is broken either online...

You feel that the online options available in GT6 are acceptable for a game in 2014? Particularly given that they're a step backwards from what was and still is available in GT5, and neither game includes functionality that was included in GT5P and advertised for both GT5 and GT6 (namely, matchmaking).

 

[TenEightyOne]

You feel that the online options available in GT6 are acceptable for a game in 2014? Particularly given that they're a step backwards from what was and still is available in GT5, and neither game includes functionality that was included in GT5P and advertised for both GT5 and GT6 (namely, matchmaking).

Do I think they're as good as GT5? No. Overall I don't think that either the lobby choice menu or the in-lobby tuning menu are anywhere near as good, and certain features from GT5 are indeed missing in GT6.

Do I think they're acceptable? Yes, because they work.

EDIT: And personally I think matchmaking sucks, so if it was included I'd like it to be an option that could be turned off if one wished. That way we'd both be quite happy

 

[BlueShift]

I play X-Rebirth rigth now and no, GT6 is not even close of a beta or gamma or whatever. It's a finished product with only a few annoying bugs.
X-Rebirth is a beta (and in november it was not even an alpha).

Love this game btw.

 

[Imari]

EDIT: And personally I think matchmaking sucks, so if it was included I'd like it to be an option that could be turned off if one wished. That way we'd both be quite happy

Oh, certainly. The way it was in GT5P with ONLY matchmaking was annoying.

I mean, I'd use a matchmaking part more than I'd use a public lobbies part, but to have only one or the other seems daft to me. Both are absolutely essential parts of online play.

I could see a case for only having public lobbies being somewhat OK, if and only if they made the search system really REALLY good so that you could essentially matchmake yourself and jump quickly into what you wanted. Unfortunately, that hasn't happened and doesn't look that likely given the big steps backwards the search has made from GT5. And GT5's search was hardly stellar either.

This is why I don't find GT6's online to be acceptable. If I have to spend more than 3 minutes looking for a lobby, it's failed for me. If I have to jump in and out of rooms to find what I want to race, I just won't do it. I want to pick my car (at the moment it's a Mazda RX-8, because I'm looking at buying a real one), and jump in a room and race with people. I don't want to stuff around for half an hour and not even get a race in.

GT6 online works if you're trying to run a league and have some separate website like GTP to coordinate it, or if you have lots and lots of spare time. It's not great for anyone just wanting a quick race, to the point that it's usually not even worth wasting the time trying.

 

[Squanto]

I love GT6 don't get me wrong ... and I fully support the opinions of blue @BlueShift and @TenEightyOne

but I really don't get why so much functionality was presented & promised before release ...
which wasn't included in the game on release ... GPS-track editor .... B-spec ... etc...

If they just didn't mention them beforehand ... and put them in on a later update as a surprise ... everyone would be surprised and happy about it ... now we are all .. euh ... Sad!

its like ordering a car at a dealer .... and you have to come back a year later to get your (ordered) AirConditioning installed ...

it's not really Beta ... it's just incomplete .... and thats unfair with any product you purchase ...
You want to get what you pre-ordered ... not a small subset of the promised functionality ..... guess that's what everyone is upset about ....

I can live with bugs ... which i know they will address and solve in the near future ... PD always does ...

 

[phil_75]

Who would have thought in their wildest dreams that after the GT5 shambles that PD would have released another unfinished mess with the time and budget they get and imo it is, apart from physics and loading, far worse than GT5.

The game is flat out boring, I can't tune cars because it doesn't correspond with how it should work irl and is buggy ( camber for instance ).
I can't enjoy my favourite part, taking stock cars in certain PP or classes and see which is fastest on certain tracks because I no longer have faith in PDs modelling of physics and aero, they change the physics in updates without telling us so any tuners have to redo everything and you have to again get used to the new physics.
As for MR cars, well, the less said about them the better, they shoul, as irl, be the best handling (not easiest)
but they are awful, if they drive like that irl i'll eat my PS3.

Aero is rubbish too, cars accelerate at high speeds like there is no wind resistance so anything over about 60mph is just wrong. Most cars also have amuch higher top speed than irl
Racing against AI is just a no -go.
Online is a pared back bug ridden mess with anything longer than a few laps and requiring a pitstop ruined by buggy tyres, also shuffle is missing.

My main issue that just ruins any immersion is the sound, that droning monotonous noise on most cars has become unbearable for any more than an hour.

Where are all the features that were touted before launch?
If its gonna be another GT5 where it isn't finished for over a year why did they not state this on the box?
What about people without internet?
Why did they release it unfinished, it's like they sold it with the absolute least content they thought they could get away with?
If I had known how little was actually on the disc and how long I'd have to wait for it I could have bought it in 2015 when it is actually finished and for half the price!!!

To put things into perspective I bought a PS1 solely for GT, i bought a PS2 solely for GT3, I bought a PS3 solely for GT5, I have owned all GT including GTHD and Prologue, i played GT5 every single day for just over 2 years.

I have given up with GT6 after 2 months, it gets played for about an hour every fortnight now (seasonals only).
I never would have imagined, ever, that i would be bored and fed up with GT but PD have done it.

Makes things even worse that Sony are in dire financial circumstances and news has just broke that Sony Santa Monica has laid off 50 staff.
PDs seemingly unlimited time and budget has been wasted imo, they should have created something magnificent with all that time and money to draw in massive sales and profit therefore securing their next budget.
Sony can no longer afford to give so generously anymore.
PD were luckily given a second chance but they have blown it and showed yet again that there needs to be big changes.

 

[Imari]

If they just didn't mention them beforehand ... and put them in on a later update as a surprise ... everyone would be surprised and happy about it

Unfortunately not. B Spec and the Course Maker were in GT5, and had GT6 come out without them and with no mention at all, there likely would have been quite the kerfuffle about what the hell happened.

I do agree that the things that were entirely new to GT6 they should just not have said anything and brought it in as a pleasant surprise.

 

[Squanto]

Unfortunately not. B Spec and the Course Maker were in GT5, and had GT6 come out without them and with no mention at all, there likely would have been quite the kerfuffle about what the hell happened.

Good point .. should have thought of that ... thanks

 

[BlueShift]

Unfortunately not. B Spec and the Course Maker were in GT5, and had GT6 come out without them and with no mention at all, there likely would have been quite the kerfuffle about what the hell happened.

I do agree that the things that were entirely new to GT6 they should just not have said anything and brought it in as a pleasant surprise.

All of this happened after the release of GT5 in patches if I remember well ?

 

[MLRSparco]

I take the opposite view to you. I'm happy with the game as it is now despite accepting that it could be better. I'm confident that PD support the software with updates over time, as @Squanto said it took a year for GT5 Spec 2.0 to come, 3 months into GT6 I'm not concerned.

Nor do I think PD have any "owning up" to do or that their information is really that poor. Maybe it's because I'm "older" but I'm happy that information comes when it comes, I don't feel like my game is broken either online or offline and I'm patient enough that the wait for updates or news really isn't bothering me.

I respect your opinion, don't get me wrong, I just disagree with it wholeheartedly.

Well seeing as though you're "older" I would like to think that you'd know when you're getting an incomplete product,there are literally features that were promised as first day content and 3months later we haven't even heard as much as a whisper about it?

PD shouldn't in any way be repeating the mistakes it's made in GT5,that game was a train wreck,I've never seen a company act the way PD does honestly.I respect your opinion any everything but at the end of the day no one likes to be lied to or keep in the dark,maybe I should've been smart enough and expected this from PD but I thought I'd give them another chance,but I think they should've just not told us about the new features and left it as a surprise like @Squanto said.

 

[Imari]

All of this happened after the release of GT5 in patches if I remember well ?

You do not remember well. B Spec and Course Maker were part of the release version of GT5.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Well seeing as though you're "older" I would like to think that you'd know when you're getting an incomplete product,there are literally features that were promised as first day content and 3months later we haven't even heard as much as a whisper about it?

PD shouldn't in any way be repeating the mistakes it's made in GT5,that game was a train wreck,I've never seen a company act the way PD does honestly.I respect your opinion any everything but at the end of the day no one likes to be lied to or keep in the dark,maybe I should've been smart enough and expected this from PD but I thought I'd give them another chance,but I think they should've just not told us about the new features and left it as a surprise like @Squanto said.

You are clearly "younger" and haven't bought many games. Some were never patched, remember Tropico 3? Remember RacePro (supposedly SimBin til it turned out they'd replaced everyone and kept the name)?

I stopped buying Forza simply because I paid a lot of money for a preorder that didn't physically come with the things that they said it would. Dan Greenawalt blamed "a printing error". I bought the standard version of the next game and gave up, the original issues from FM still hadn't been patched.

I'm not debating that, it was my opinion and my choice, and ultimately my money.

I'm happy with GT6 because I anticipate that, as with GT5, the game will be completed across its lifespan. I only recall one promised feature missing from GT5 and that was the ability to transfer the garage from GT5P.

I bought GT6 to race cars in a virtual world, it does that very well. I'm not going to get my kecks in a wad because the menus are a bit crappy.

GT5 was a train wreck? Why are you even still here?

 

[sparkytooth]

The game has been stable so far, even moreso than GT5 ever was. Beta Release this is not.

 

[Imari]

I only recall one promised feature missing from GT5 and that was the ability to transfer the garage from GT5P.

Matchmaking.

The game has been stable so far, even moreso than GT5 ever was. Beta Release this is not.

The features that are there are stable, but there is a name for games that are feature incomplete, regardless of how polished or stable they are.

Alpha.

Usually games are made feature complete in alpha, then move to beta for polishing and stability improvements. In GT6's case, they've taken a few parts of the game all the way through the process before actually finishing all the features.

This tends to be bad for stability in the long run. Weird interactions between new and old features can require reworking of large parts of the game, and so it's generally considered better to get all the features in place before you waste time polished them. No point polishing something if you're going to need to rework it later.

Unfortunately, this may be the cause of the terrible delays in the feature updates. They made the features, but it broke something else and now they have to fix the whole lot. Not exactly very professional from a AAA first party developer of one of the highest selling franchises on the console. You'd think they'd know better.

 

[sparkytooth]

The features that are there are stable, but there is a name for games that are feature incomplete, regardless of how polished or stable they are.

Alpha.

Usually games are made feature complete in alpha, then move to beta for polishing and stability improvements. In GT6's case, they've taken a few parts of the game all the way through the process before actually finishing all the features.

This tends to be bad for stability in the long run. Weird interactions between new and old features can require reworking of large parts of the game, and so it's generally considered better to get all the features in place before you waste time polished them. No point polishing something if you're going to need to rework it later.

Unfortunately, this may be the cause of the terrible delays in the feature updates. They made the features, but it broke something else and now they have to fix the whole lot. Not exactly very professional from a AAA first party developer of one of the highest selling franchises on the console. You'd think they'd know better.

I imagine that they are simply adding to a "Feature Complete" game.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Matchmaking.

What do you take the word "Matchmaking" to actually mean...?

 

[Imari]

I imagine that they are simply adding to a "Feature Complete" game.

When the developer notes features in the manual as to be added at a later date, the game is not feature complete. You'll also note that some of the features are in GT5 and missing from GT6, giving a further clue that the game is not considered complete, even by the developers.

What do you take the word "Matchmaking" to actually mean...?

Let me quote the GT5 manual, that came in the box with the game:

http://cdn.us.playstation.com/pscomauth/groups/public/documents/webasset/gt5_ps3_manual_final.pdf

Page 12.

"For a quick race and exciting competition, select on of the available online race events and get matched up against other players for heated races. Rack up wins to earn credits to put towards upgrade parts, more cars, and more. Matchmaking features a variety of race events and pits players together randomly for heated races. You can even create or join custom lounges, public room where racers can congregate and set up their own custom races."

Note that these are not open lobbies, those are covered in the paragraph above this one.

GT5 has nothing in which the computer matches the players up, it's all player controlled. Nor is there a mode where players are matched randomly.

I assume that there was intended to be another section of online, similar to the GT5P lobbies, in addition to the open and private lobbies we know from GT5. It never happened.