Weather funny thing: Better laptime with humidity

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Flaren89

Flaren89

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Flaren89
Today I grabbed my DELTA on Eiger Nordwand - Short to do one of the hotlaps I usually upload on youtube.
Decided yesterday to do it with 20% humidity because I wish to try with a little of water on the track (mainly after the 0 visibility and traction of 100% rain and humidity on Suzuka with the HSV-010 GT500, a real pain and semi-fail by me) and this morning I did the lap.
After saving replay, I wanted to try without water, completely dry just to see the limit of the car. And... Somewhat surprisingly, I was slower in dry conditions than with 20% humidity. So, the question is: how could this happen?
I took 10 minutes of attempts in both conditions in order to understand the reason, and the solution was the temperature of the tires and the grip. Because even in "Real" grip reduction, the grip of a stock DELTA on Comfort tires it's almost the same of dry conditions, just little worst, but in a dry track, the tires get overheat (red) in the apex of the turn and they lose the grip.

This thread was created by me just to make you notice this and that if you want to get the better laptimes IN SOME CARS it's better to have a 10-20% humidity on the track, if available.
 
It's for sure another flaw. Because tires physic has been improved in GT6 over GT5, but the temperature working itself hasn't change so much. It still punish too much dirty actions (not only drift, but also wheel forced understeer, which is a thing that some drivers do normally, even Hamilton do it for what i can remember).

Comparing with Simraceway (I've tried it time ago) we can say:
- GT6 punish little more in the precise moment (read above) and lot more in long time (the tires tend to overheat more and more every lap);
- Simraceway, in the other hand, punish more in the medium range (in optimal temperature, tires overheat slower than GT6 in turning but need more time also for chill down, so in high G-force and consecutive turns get overheat at the same level or even more than GT6).

It's obviously more realistic the one of Simraceway.
To make an example with random numbers (just to take the idea), at the Copse corner in Silverstone the same car:
- In GT6 the tires get from 70 to 130 in half of the turn and get back to 80 for the end of the turn and get again 70 for the Maggotts, but in 3-4 laps the base temp will be 100, heat to 140 and get back only to 105. You will need to stop or do 5-10 very slow laps to get again the optimal temperature;
- In Simraceway get from 75 to 110 in half of the turn, at the end of it is still 100-110 and in the entrance of the Maggots it's on 85, 3-4 laps later it should be almost the same temperature. If the temperature has risen up because of a dirty driving, you will just need to do 1 slower and cleaner lap to get again the optimal temperature.

This difference between the games is wider with road cars than race cars.
 
Just my answer for anything thats wrong in GT6.
 
At least it proves that the water on the track is actually cooling down the tires.
Having more grip in these conditions is of course not very realistic though.
 
IRL humidity is never at 0. If it was, your tyres, seals, paint, parts would start cracking up.
The games humidty measure doesnt seem to emulate real life where fog, rain, drizzling, pouring will all result in 70 to 100% RH. Normal RH would be 30 to 60%

I think the ingame humidity % actually just means amount of water on track, which if true, means your result is indeed "funny"

If its a measure of humidity in the air, then your result might be very realistic.
 
Of course it's water on track, I think the game is also clearly stating that.
 
Yes, that is the percentage of water on the track, or how wet the track is. Its not humidity, or the amount of moisture in the air. Your thread title is misleading in that sense as it should say something along the lines of better lap times with a certain amount of track wetness, or something like that as humidity is not measured in the game.
 
@GTP_CargoRatt Yes, it may be misleading, but in my language, it is that: humidity. I can't do anything else, if it's that the word the game is using, I must use it. For the lines, as in 20% the tires don't overheat you can be a little more aggressive and force understeer the car to try turn a bit more, meanwhile in dry conditions you must be cleaner and drive wider, but the tires will overheat before the end of the corner, leading in a loose of grip in traction and direction.

@Anyone else, I have also noticed another thing. The %wetness (call this way then) on the track is 0-10-20-30-ecc. and it works fine with the grip (other than the temperature, the car have always less grip as increase the water).
For the air wetness it works so: 0% sun, 25% few clouds, 50% lot of clouds, 75% black clouds + rain, 100% black clouds + rain + fog (or something similar).
Here again a funny thing: if the weather change is set on 0... The track wetness doesn't change. Example: I tried to put starting track wetness 0% and air 100% (rain). The track standing still at 0%, even with the rain. Then did the exactly opposite thing and same (opposite) result, the track stay on 100% even after 5-6 laps on sun condition. I thought that weather change serves to change the air wetness, instead it affect on how fast the track gets wet / dry depending on air humidity.
 
If the weather is dry but cloudy or overcast, any car performs a little better as the air is cooler and / or denser. Even my real car has a noticable difference in power when the air temperature is colder.

As for a car being faster when there is water on the tracks surface, this shouldn't happen.

Humidity is an air thing, standing water is a rain thing. I wasn't aware that air moisture was modelled.

Also, to add to all this, has PD modelled in power loss at high altitudes and, do turbo cars perform better on tracks with colder air?
 
Humidity is an air thing, standing water is a rain thing. I wasn't aware that air moisture was modelled.
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He's talking about water on the track read the tread again.
 
Flaren89
@GTP_CargoRatt Yes, it may be misleading, but in my language, it is that: humidity. I can't do anything else, if it's that the word the game is using, I must use it. For the lines, as in 20% the tires don't overheat you can be a little more aggressive and force understeer the car to try turn a bit more, meanwhile in dry conditions you must be cleaner and drive wider, but the tires will overheat before the end of the corner, leading in a loose of grip in traction and direction.

@Anyone else, I have also noticed another thing. The %wetness (call this way then) on the track is 0-10-20-30-ecc. and it works fine with the grip (other than the temperature, the car have always less grip as increase the water).
For the air wetness it works so: 0% sun, 25% few clouds, 50% lot of clouds, 75% black clouds + rain, 100% black clouds + rain + fog (or something similar).
Here again a funny thing: if the weather change is set on 0... The track wetness doesn't change. Example: I tried to put starting track wetness 0% and air 100% (rain). The track standing still at 0%, even with the rain. Then did the exactly opposite thing and same (opposite) result, the track stay on 100% even after 5-6 laps on sun condition. I thought that weather change serves to change the air wetness, instead it affect on how fast the track gets wet / dry depending on air humidity.
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Not to argue, but I'm pretty sure that humidity (the amount of moisture in the air) means the same thing in all languages. Again, humidity, or "air wetness", as you are now calling it, is not measured in the game. If you want to refer to track wetness as humidity, that's fine I guess but that may only confuse some people. The only amount of water measured in the game is on the track, not in the air.

You relating "air wetness" to the amount of sun/clouds is wrong. That just relates to cloud cover, nothing to do with humidity. Again, there is no measure of humidity, or air wetness, in the game. Only percentage of water on the surface, cloud cover, and temperature are in the game.

Your findings are interesting, I just think your wording is wrong in some cases and you are mistaking humidity for something that its not. Good job on your findings here though. :cheers:
 
Nurburgthing.
If the weather is dry but cloudy or overcast, any car performs a little better as the air is cooler and / or denser. Even my real car has a noticable difference in power when the air temperature is colder.

As for a car being faster when there is water on the tracks surface, this shouldn't happen.

Humidity is an air thing, standing water is a rain thing. I wasn't aware that air moisture was modelled.

Also, to add to all this, has PD modelled in power loss at high altitudes and, do turbo cars perform better on tracks with colder air?
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They should, though.
 
Azure Flare
Why? Because PD.
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NICKname
Wow thanks for the detailed information, that sure helped us all.
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Azure Flare
Just my answer for anything thats wrong in GT6.
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HesRightYouKnowMorganFreeman_zps8afb3143.jpeg
 
G.T.Ace
He's talking about water on the track read the tread again.
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I read the lot thanks. I still wasn't sure though. I will tread through the thread more carefully in future, my sincerest apologies :sly:.

NICKname
They should, though.
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Yes, especially the altitude power loss. Its a very real thing and would make racing at Matterhorn noticably slower then at a trck closer to sea level.
 
@GTP_CargoRatt Yes I know that the game doesn't calculate the air humidity itself, too much complex, i think that neither rFactor 2, Assetto Corsa or IRacing calculate it, GT6 would be the last one to have. For the terms, in my languate (italian) it's: "Umidità del tracciato a inizio gara" and "Umidità dell'aria a inizio gara" = "Track Humidity at the race start" and "Air Humidity at the race start". This is the letteral traduction and didn't find anything else.
For the same reason the "0% sun, 25% few clouds, ecc." thing in my language works.

Anyway, other than this missleading, at the end ppl understood what I want to point, and I'm happy about my contribute.

P.S.: Another thing for and because RH not working is: what happens in tracks don't have weather? Which is the RH%? The answer is simple: Nothing happens because the game doesn't calculate it.
 
Flaren89
@GTP_CargoRatt Yes I know that the game doesn't calculate the air humidity itself, too much complex, i think that neither rFactor 2, Assetto Corsa or IRacing calculate it, GT6 would be the last one to have. For the terms, in my languate (italian) it's: "Umidità del tracciato a inizio gara" and "Umidità dell'aria a inizio gara" = "Track Humidity at the race start" and "Air Humidity at the race start". This is the letteral traduction and didn't find anything else.
For the same reason the "0% sun, 25% few clouds, ecc." thing in my language works.

Anyway, other than this missleading, at the end ppl understood what I want to point, and I'm happy about my contribute.

P.S.: Another thing for and because RH not working is: what happens in tracks don't have weather? Which is the RH%? The answer is simple: Nothing happens because the game doesn't calculate it.
Click to expand...

Alright, fair enough then.
 
I kind of felt there was something wrong when driving on wet surfaces. Add to that the fact that regular tires work better than Wet/Intermediate tires when water is at 100%
 
I was practising for a race series at Silverstone the other day. I was driving a Ford Focus ST 06. The series limits us to racing hard tyres or inter/wets. The same thing happened to me, at about 10% surface water I was faster by about 2 seconds than in the dry. I put this down to the car being FF, and the rear sliding further round the corners, allowing me to accelerate sooner, but looking at replays, I was actually cornering faster even without sliding. Now I'm not sure if the OP is correct with the tyre heat while cornering, but its a good thesis. Also, from my experiences, at 100% wet, the wet tyre has always been the best. I read the posts about using normal tyres in the wet, and decided to have a play around. The general rule of thumb I got from the cars I tested was at about 40% switch to inters, and 75% to wets. RS tyres may have had a little more grip than the wets, but on RS's I just aquaplaned all over the place, loosing more time than the grip gave me. Has anyone tried it since .03? It wasn't mentioned in the patch notes, but who knows what PD change by accident!
 
If you are curious, i've uploaded that replay (cockpit view) on my youtube channel, but for 24-48 hours I think the only way to find it is to pass trought my channel, untill it is available on the search engine. Unfortunately you can't understand directly what i said in the first and opening post, the only thing maybe it's what you (don't) hear, meaning that tires are quite quiet comparing on the screech they should do (and actually DO) in dry condition.
If someone else can do the same as me but with a direct comparative (split screen best) between 0% and 20% wetness on the same car, would be nice.
 
Well I did the Brands Hatch 15-lap challenge and my best lap on dry track was only a second and a half better than my best on about 40% rain.
 
Looking at your video, the track surface doesn't look 20% wet.



IIRC there are 3 options for the weather; One plainly called "Weather", which determines whether it looks overcast or sunny, "Changeability", and "Surface Water" (or something like that). If it's the "Weather" that is on 20% and you're going faster, then this isn't a problem. If it's "Surface Water", then it's a problem.
 
It's recorded with a Xperia (Smartphone), not a capture card, what do u expect?

The options were: 25% weather (it's just a bit darker, like in a semi-cloudy situation), 0 changeability, 20% Surface water.
 
it also seems like racing hard tires work better in the rain than rain tires do.
 
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