Weird automotive engineering solutions

[mustangGT90210]

I have to say you're clearly fairly unlucky if your life has been saved several times just by sitting on the brakes at some lights... personally my life has been saved by more mundane stuff, like anticipating hazards, or quick reactions. I rarely find myself in life-threatening situations sitting in traffic. Big queues sure can be dangerous...

I believe I mentioned earlier how easy it is to get a license in this country? And how most people drive they're car like they walk. Carelessly

Hmm.

Perhaps this is part of the problem then. I quite like paying attention all the time, even when at rest...

It's not that I don't pay attention, I simply avert my attention to someone/somewhere else while keeping the brake lights I'm avoiding in my peripheral vision. Allows me to see them turn off, at which point I'll look back into the car in front of me, and decide whether or not they are moving and it is safe for myself to begin moving

Why?

Given that the situation described above seems endemic in your driving culture but unheard of in ours, why am I utterly stupid to use my handbrake when static (and not on a slope)?

I won't take this to any personal level as I see it as wrong. I find the technique uttery stupid, not the people using it, unless they have done other stupid things while I've been following them.

Corollary to that, you've just decelerated your car to a stop. Which is better for your car:
1. Remaining on the footbrake - you now have warm pads clamped onto a single spot on your brake discs.
2. Holding the vehicle on the clutch (applicable to inclines and manual cars only).
3. Pulling on the handbrake - you now have a single purpose drum brake locked in place (except in vehicles with a disc handbrake - which isn't as common as you might think).

1) I have yet to even hear of any damages being caused to brakes on a routine interval from being clamped at a stop. Can you provide any proof to say that that is a bad thing in street driving?
2) Byebye clutch, been nice knowin' ya
3) In theory, I agree the handbrake makes the most sense, but in practice, I don't feel it is viable

 

[bergauk]

Aren't disc breaks ALWAYS touching? I'm fairly sure thats how it is on my bicycle, cars must be the same?

 

[Famine]

Aren't disc breaks ALWAYS touching? I'm fairly sure thats how it is on my bicycle, cars must be the same?

Err, no.

I can't cite any specific instances of discs warping from this - or any other - practice but then most people known to me are British and don't generally ride the brakes at stoplights

(I'll also add that it's recommended that, after track use, you park the car with the handbrake off to prevent the heat dissipation through the braking system melting the quite crappy handbrake drums)

 

[stumpydino]

Aren't disc breaks ALWAYS touching? I'm fairly sure thats how it is on my bicycle, cars must be the same?

yes but only just

 

[mustangGT90210]

Aren't disc breaks ALWAYS touching? I'm fairly sure thats how it is on my bicycle, cars must be the same?

My bikes don't have that. Then again, 2 of my 3 bikes have either broken brakes, or brakes totally taken off

 

[bergauk]

yes but only just

Still, they're always in contact. Throwing the whole "warping from city driving" thing out the window. I've ridden down mountain roads at 35mph+ on my bike and most of it was riding the brakes. They weren't warped from that experience but they were warm. Sitting on your brakes at a stop light is much easier to do than pulling your handbrake. There should be no reason to be taking your hands off the wheel when driving other than to shift.

 

[homeforsummer]

A bit of research, though, confirms that Peugeot was first to go into full-production with one. Leave it to the French....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peugeot_402

I knew it would be the 30s Indeed, Peugeot used the 402 in their ad for the 207CC:

3) In theory, I agree the handbrake makes the most sense, but in practice, I don't feel it is viable

And I disagree I think it's already been established that it's pretty much a difference in driving cultures rather than actual wrongdoing on anyone's part.

That's actually pretty cool. I had no idea that my aunt and uncle had a MR minivan.

It's mid-rear alright but that doesn't stop it being awful.

There should be no reason to be taking your hands off the wheel when driving other than to shift.

It's hardly dangerous taking a hand off the wheel to pull the handbrake up at a standstill... it's not like you're going anywhere

 

[Rykon Zero]

About that 1st gen. Prelude with the four wheel steering: Why don't all cars have that system? It seems like it would be absolutely brilliant in any cart, especially in my supercar concept.

 

[homeforsummer]

About that 1st gen. Prelude with the four wheel steering: Why don't all cars have that system? It seems like it would be absolutely brilliant in any cart, especially in my supercar concept.

Two reasons:

1) When your back wheels are moving, it isn't always as stable as a normal system. I've heard of occasions where Prelude owners have replaced or disconnected the 4WS system as they didn't like the handling with it engaged.

2) Complication and expense. It's another thing to engineer and when it goes wrong, it's another thing to replace.

 

[Famine]

yes but only just

Mmmno, they aren't.

Still, they're always in contact.

No, they're not.

I've ridden down mountain roads at 35mph+ on my bike and most of it was riding the brakes. They weren't warped from that experience but they were warm.

The disc rotates. The pads clamp on to slow/stop the rotation. With the disc rotating while the pads are slowing it, the disc is doing its job of dissipating the heat generated by the friction of the pads.

With the disc motionless and the pads still clamped on one spot of the disc is at a far higher temperature than the rest of it.

 

[ExigeEvan]

It's mid-rear alright but that doesn't stop it being awful.

I know you love your city cars but please say what you have against the Previa. It's been a noble workhorse in my family for 12 years now and has not given us any hassle while also being a versatile beast.

 

[homeforsummer]

I know you love your city cars but please say what you have against the Previa. It's been a noble workhorse in my family for 12 years now and has not given us any hassle while also being a versatile beast.

What does me liking city cars have to do with anything? I quite like the Lotus Elise and Porsche 911 too and have mentioned so numerous times, but they wouldn't have been relevant either. Try and avoid bringing personal preferences (especially irrelevant ones) into things if you're going to get defensive over something...

If you'll allow me actually I'd like to take back my Previa comment. I always get the Previa and Nissan's Serena (which really is awful) mixed up in my head I've just googled the Previa and I don't actually mind them. The later ones even look quite good. So my apologies 👍

 

[EA11R]

Really?(EDIT: 1 post before. I typed too slowly) I've heard of people falling in love with their Previas and constantly replacing things to keep them running? Either way, I love the Previa, it is a very very good packaging solution. Though, the engine isn't exactly under the seats. So if the engine explodes, you don't lose your fannies. Only your radio (and the stuff surrounding).

Personally, I prefer the other MR Toyota vans, though. An older type preceded the Previa (don't know the name), looked like a hexagonal prism. Awesome. Much more stylish than the jelly bean.

I personally like clever ergonomics and extremely subtle cost-cutting (the type where it's designed, not built, down to a price).

Putting the window controls in the centre of my mum's Vue means simpler doors and less electronics overall. Though, apparently people say this car is crap?

The keyhole location on Hondas (at the very least, older Civics) isn't on the trunk itself, so if you've got überkeys, like everyone I know, opening the trunk doesn't throw them at the paint if they're still in the keyhole. Sure, they shouldn't be, but no fail added. Also: simpler trunk lid resultingly.

The Nissan Cube's assymetrical design apparently allows excellent visibility:

Can anyone think of an engineering solution similar to the Companion Cube? (Players needed to carry an Aperture Sciences Weighted Storage Cube to make it through the level, but declined. Instead of redesigning the level, the drew hearts on the sides of it and deemed it Companion Cube.) Using emotion to have people avoid inherent flaws is pretty sweet.

 

[Eric.]

The keyhole location on Hondas (at the very least, older Civics) isn't on the trunk itself, so if you've got überkeys, like everyone I know, opening the trunk doesn't throw them at the paint if they're still in the keyhole. Sure, they shouldn't be, but no fail added. Also: simpler trunk lid resultingly.

On new Civics the keyhole is on the trunk I believe. Only the DX and LX have them, the EX and Si only have the interior lever and key fob.

 

[niky]

Err, no.

I can't cite any specific instances of discs warping from this - or any other - practice but then most people known to me are British and don't generally ride the brakes at stoplights

(I'll also add that it's recommended that, after track use, you park the car with the handbrake off to prevent the heat dissipation through the braking system melting the quite crappy handbrake drums)

I used to warp the brakes on my car all the time. Parked it when it was hot after highway driving... front discs warping from inadequate cooling off.

The mk1 Toyota Previa
What do you do when you have a big car, want to sit 8 in comfort but need to keep length to a minimum (Japanese tax and general ease of use I think). Make it MR

Okay so it's not that fascinating but the engine on the mk1 Previa was an almost-boxer (75 degree) situated under the front seats. You in fact have to fold back the front passenger seat to gain access to the dipstick. All other fluid reservoirs are located under the bonnet.

A lot of Japanese vans are Mid-engined... some of which are truly awful. We used to have a Vanette/Serena, and the mid-engine layout made those things overheat at the stoplights all the time. Not enough air-circulation through the radiators and engine-bay... at least not until they fitted extra radiator fans to cure it. And even then, it was a cruddy piece of tin... didn't have enough power to climb steep hills with a full load of passengers. I would often crawl up parking ramps in first gear at high rpms and watch the rev counter go down, and down, and down.

One common joke/myth about mid-engined vans is that the driver's seat gets hot enough to sterilize you. Never noticed, but sometimes, it's hot enough to make you wonder.

-

Another mid-engined van is the Mercedes Benz MB100. Even more fascinating than the mid-engined layout is the fact that it's also front-wheel drive, which gives it a very low load-floor, giving it more passenger space than comparable MR cab-forward vans. The Previa is also mid-front, but is more mini-van-ish, while the MB100 is not just a passenger van, but also a panel van.

-

One touch that I find eternally fascinating, and cool in a geeky kind of way, is the "Air Grabber" on the Plymouth Road Runner....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plymouth_Road_Runner

That's something I'd love to do with my own car... a ram-air intake you can close when it rains...

 

[nobuffalo]

This is how cool the previa is.

 

[Duke]

One touch that I find eternally fascinating, and cool in a geeky kind of way, is the "Air Grabber" on the Plymouth Road Runner....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plymouth_Road_Runner

That's something I'd love to do with my own car... a ram-air intake you can close when it rains...

And let me tell you, it was intimidating as hell to pull up next to one of those things at a stop light, and watch it click*fwoooosh open just before the guy lit them up all the way across the intersection.

 

[nobuffalo]

And let me tell you, it was intimidating as hell to pull up next to one of those things at a stop light, and watch it click*fwoooosh open just before the guy lit them up all the way across the intersection.

Ahh, the good old days, wish I had the chance to remember them.

 

[bergauk]

This is how cool the previa is.

 

[Philly]

Why do I have the sudden urge to try and buy one?

Epic understeer!

Now I kinda want one too. Maybe that should be my next car...

 

[ExigeEvan]

What does me liking city cars have to do with anything? I quite like the Lotus Elise and Porsche 911 too and have mentioned so numerous times, but they wouldn't have been relevant either. Try and avoid bringing personal preferences (especially irrelevant ones) into things if you're going to get defensive over something...

It's no secret that you like really small cars, so to mention it when discussing a particuarly large car is relevant in my opinion. You made a strong negative comment against a car I have quite an emotional attachment to and gave no reason, so I asked for that reason in the best way I felt possible.

That said, I can't see why any of you would want to buy them to throw around. The car weighs alot and has just enough power as it is.

If you'll allow me actually I'd like to take back my Previa comment. I always get the Previa and Nissan's Serena (which really is awful) mixed up in my head I've just googled the Previa and I don't actually mind them. The later ones even look quite good. So my apologies 👍

No problem.

 

[Famine]

you don't lose your fannies

*Famine giggles*

 

[niky]

And let me tell you, it was intimidating as hell to pull up next to one of those things at a stop light, and watch it click*fwoooosh open just before the guy lit them up all the way across the intersection.

Now I definitely want one. Preferably still attached to the car.

Ahh, the good old days, wish I had the chance to remember them.

Wait fifty years. Then tell your horse-riding grandkids that cars looked and smelled a hundred times better.

 

[Jay]

So if the engine explodes, you don't lose your fannies.

haha, slightly different meaning depending where you are.

 

[Sniffs]

Home: yeah, when the Japanese first pulled Minivans over here, they used their home market ones swapped to LHD...the main complaint was trying to get to the engine for maintenece..but they also yarped about the Bus-like driving position, and the fact that a 5 MPH/8KMH bumper tap would likely sever your feet at the ankles I personally think they should have been lowered in the ride hight department. the Toyota one, especially, looked as if you could blow it over. and they didn't name them, here.

EA: placing the power window controlls on the center stack drives people crazy, as that's NOT the first place you look for them (and it gives your front passenger total window controll). I' rather have the master controlls right on the driver's armrest. it doesn't even make sense to put them where an old fashioned crank handle goes, as that's a good way to have to take your eyes off the road to look for em.

sticking the trunk keyhole clean down under the taillight was NOT logical...how many people were gonna want to bend in half to pop the trunk. good thing Honda fixed that.

 

[Wolfe]

EA: placing the power window controlls on the center stack drives people crazy, as that's NOT the first place you look for them (and it gives your front passenger total window controll). I' rather have the master controlls right on the driver's armrest. it doesn't even make sense to put them where an old fashioned crank handle goes, as that's a good way to have to take your eyes off the road to look for em.

I hate window controls on the door/armrest. My parents' GM cars have them, and they're so small and crowded you can't tell which one you're using without looking. My father also often inadvertantly locks the windows, since the switch is right next to the window buttons and is a similar shape. This is particularly annoying on a family roadtrip because it annoys him to have to unlock the windows...because he has to take his eyes off the road just to find the button. Our old Pontiac also used to scare the dog, who would close the window on himself using the paw-friendly armrest buttons.

Placing the window controls in the middle enables each front passenger to use each window without duplicate buttons (the ability to have your window opened for you -- say, when fumbling with change for a toll -- offsets the extra "power" your passenger has). Many times, it also offers greater spacing and allows for larger buttons that can be quickly identified without looking. Not to mention it's dog-friendly.

I agree with you on electric switches literally taking the place of window cranks. GM used that brilliant penny-pinching shortcut on my parents' Oldsmobile, along with a plastic stopper in the glovebox that fills the hole where the optional trunk release button goes.

 

[Duke]

It's funny - I was used to seeing the console-mounted window buttons from our friends' European cars growing up, though we never owned one. I always thought it was a good idea to simplify wiring. But our American and Japanese cars had armrest-mounted window switches, so I was used to driving that way.

Now I have a BMW (console mounted, which I like) and an Acura (armrest mounted, which I'm used to).

So why do I ALWAYS reach for the wrong location, no matter which car I'm driving?!

 

[Tornado]

Del Sol roof anyone?

Sheesh. No wonder it leaked.

Always made me laugh when people say the Merc SLK was the first with a folding hard-top, when even the Del Sol wasn't (pretty sure things like that appeared back in the 30s... if not electrically powered).

Ignoring weird Fords from the 50s, Mitsubishi still did it first.


I always loved the weirdness of the Previa. Then I learned a while ago that they were in fact MR. Then I loved them more.

On the brqake thing: I thought sitting on the brakes at a stoplight was what you were supposed to do.

Oh, and since no one has brought it up yet:

 

[Wolfe]

Now I have a BMW (console mounted, which I like) and an Acura (armrest mounted, which I'm used to).

So why do I ALWAYS reach for the wrong location, no matter which car I'm driving?!

Reminds me of living west of a 9-5 job -- on your commute the sun would always be in your face.

On the brqake thing: I thought sitting on the brakes at a stoplight was what you were supposed to do.

Makes it simple to keep the car still and to start moving again quickly (without the threat of a fussy handbrake button); helps keep the car from rolling if you're hit from behind (helping to prevent a long chain of damage); helps inattentive/drunk drivers realize traffic is stopped by illuminating your taillights...seems self-explanatory to me.

As far as I see it, using the handbrake or letting the car sit on its own is nothing but a matter of individual comfort.

Oh, and since no one has brought it up yet:
*zomg seat speakers*

iz dat sum fiero?

 

[Famine]

So why do I ALWAYS reach for the wrong location, no matter which car I'm driving?!

Same reason we always put the wipers on first instead of indicating (the MX-3 has the indicator stalk on the right and the wiper stalk on the left - every other car we've ever had including the MX-5 had it the other way about).