Well, I Was Just Side-Swiped...

[Duke]

You must think it's boring to drive a Nascar...

No, I don't. Why is that relevant?

 

[Orion]

No, I don't. Why is that relevant?

You said that a car with good acceleration is just plain boring.

After a while - a very short while - I get very bored with pushing the gas pedal, particularly if acceleration is the car's only real claim to fame. It's like flicking a light switch - *ON* *off* *ON* *off* - OK, we've mastered that skill; let's move on to something interesting.

So driving a TVR Speed 12 must be boring too.

If he doesn't say yes then I will. Racing around an oval track with 3 or 4 turns has to be the most boring form of racing ever. The only right hand turns these drivers make is the 1º right hander out of the pit lane. B O R I N G

I mean like Nascar on the city streets, like I saw on Boston Road.

 

[Scaff]

You said that a car with good acceleration is just plain boring.

Not that Duke needs me to reply, but that's not quite true, what he said was...

if acceleration is the car's only real claim to fame

...and that's quite different. If acceleration (and we are only talking about decent acceleration here, not anything truly neck snapping) is all a car can offer then it will get boring very quickly.

So driving a TVR Speed 12 must be boring too.

Only if you think that the the acceleration is comparable to the Camry (its not - the TVR is in a totally different league) and that acceleration is its only defining characteristic. I've sat in a British GT Speed 12 and can tell you just sitting in it and the view out (or lack of it) is enough alone to differ it from the Camry.

Personally acceleration is great, if its not the sum total of the car, and I'd take handling and driver involvement over it any day of the week.


Regards

Scaff

 

[Speedster502]

I think this thread has gone way off topic. I mean what does a Camry have to do with a car accident? If I am completely missing the point here then please do tell me, but I can't see how the last few posts arguing about the Camry are relevant.

 

[Orion]

Only if you think that the the acceleration is comparable to the Camry (its not - the TVR is in a totally different league) and that acceleration is its only defining characteristic. I've sat in a British GT Speed 12 and can tell you just sitting in it and the view out (or lack of it) is enough alone to differ it from the Camry.

I was saying since he said acceleration after a while gets boring when that is the only thing the car has to offer, not to compare to the camry, but just as an example, if he gets bored with cars after a while because of acceleration, then he would get bored with a TVR Speed 12, we all that car is not comparable to alot of cars. You make a good point, but does a 2000 TVR Speed 12 offer anything other than a V12 in a wide 1998 TVR Cerbera Speed 6? So I think Duke would get bored with it. I can't say he will though.

Personally acceleration is great, if its not the sum total of the car, and I'd take handling and driver involvement over it any day of the week.

I take acceleration. Would you want a car that can easily get rear-ended when entering the highway? Especially in NYC?

 

[Scaff]

I was saying since he said acceleration after a while gets boring when that is the only thing the car has to offer, not to compare to the camry, but just as an example, if he gets bored with cars after a while because of acceleration, then he would get bored with a TVR Speed 12, we all that car is not comparable to alot of cars. You make a good point, but does a 2000 TVR Speed 12 offer anything other than a V12 in a wide 1998 TVR Cerbera Speed 6? So I think Duke would get bored with it. I can't say he will though.

The Speed 12 is a little more than a V12 in a wide Speed 12, its technically a GT class racing car made road legal (even if the GT car came after the road car concept).

Once again you have taken Duke totally out of context here, and the analogy you used is poor and the speed 12 is about far more than acceleration.

I take acceleration. Would you want a car that can easily get rear-ended when entering the highway? Especially in NYC?

I have to say that to avoid getting rear ended when merging with other traffic I would suggest better observation, as acceleration is not major factor when doing something like this.

Acceleration times tell you very little about a car and I for one would not waste my time and money on a one trick pony.

Regards

Scaff

 

[Orion]

The Speed 12 is a little more than a V12 in a wide Speed 12, its technically a GT class racing car made road legal (even if the GT car came after the road car concept).

Once again you have taken Duke totally out of context here, and the analogy you used is poor and the speed 12 is about far more than acceleration.

Okay, I understand what you are saying. I like the Speed 12, but I only like it for it's acceleration and looks, nothing else, you might be a more in-depth fan with the Speed 12, but I know I'm not. There's a difference between different opinions, and offensiveness... 💡

I have to say that to avoid getting rear ended when merging with other traffic I would suggest better observation, as acceleration is not major factor when doing something like this.

Acceleration times tell you very little about a car and I for one would not waste my time and money on a one trick pony.

You make a good point, but you never been in NYC to expierience the amazing traffic jams, so it's hard to merge onto a highway, because alot of people are speeding, and there are alot of people in this city. Just go to Pelham Parkway on rush hour, 174st on rush hour, west farms, and others. There's even jams on weekends. We have differences in opinions, so no need to continue debating and no need for continuous off-topicness. In this city, sometimes acceleration is your ONLY hope....

 

[Scaff]

Okay, I understand what you are saying. I like the Speed 12, but I only like it for it's acceleration and looks, nothing else, you might be a more in-depth fan with the Speed 12, but I know I'm not. There's a difference between different opinions, and offensiveness... 💡

Um exactly how have I been offensive here?

I've simply stated that the Speed 12 is about more than simple acceleration, I don't exactly see how anything I have said could be taken as offensive either directly or indirectly?

Rather confused

Scaff

 

[Orion]

I thought that some people would take that as offense, saying the TVR Speed 12 is all about acceleration, you haven't said one offensive comment, but I'm sure some TVR fan would come and flame me like one time I said something about how I think the Ford Mondeo was ugly IMO, but that was on a different site, I just don't want to get flamed/burned/sliced/cut/stabbed/ranted on like on that other site I went to. He was mad because I said the Ford Fusion looked way better than the Mondeo. Ahh the internet world is funny. I don't want people to take offense to my opinions thats all.

EDIT: BTW Thanks for keeping your cool when I said that about the TVR.

 

[YSSMAN]

Personally acceleration is great, if its not the sum total of the car, and I'd take handling and driver involvement over it any day of the week.

I'm in complete agreement here, as it is part of the reason why I bought the Jetta in the first place. I have yet to drive too many small cars from that era that take note of decent handling and involvement, with or without acceleration. VW has been doing it since the first GTI, and indeed it is part of what makes their cars fun to drive.

...Acceleration isn't everything IMO, but its certainly fun when you can go to sixty in less than seven seconds. I'm lucky to do it under ten in my car, but the rewards come mostly in the twisties, and that is indeed the best part of the Jetta.

 

[Perfect Balance]

I have yet to drive too many small cars from that era that take note of decent handling and involvement, with or without acceleration.

Frankly, I think the Jetta's handling sucks. But I've only driven a MKIII TDI and GL (I think that's what it is.)

The suspension was so soft the rear wheels were coming off the ground while cornering, and not an inch-er-so either.

 

[YSSMAN]

Its not the world's best handling, but its that 'connected' feeling that makes me happy. Volkswagen equipped the cars (particularly in the MKIII form) with some of the worst anti-roll bars ever, and most serious VW performance guys swap those out at first chance. Minor updates to the chassis make the cars perform a lot better, as evidence by the higher-level GLX VR6 models, which were considered 3-series fighters at the time.

...Later Jettas and Golfs are a lot better depending on trim level, but the GL (like you mentioned) is usually considered to be the "bare bones" model that doesn't get too many performance parts.

Technically, my Jetta Wolfsburg is based on the GL, and really is only a GL model with a bunch of extra standard equipment (spoiler, sun roof, special seats, body-color moldings and bumpers, etc) at a cheap price.

...I'm constantly looking at replacing this Jetta with a newer MKIV model, but I've stayed away from the idea because I like the older "lightweight" MKIII models a bit better... Plus, all I have to pay for right now is gas and insurance, and that is nice...

 

[Wolfe]

The suspension was so soft the rear wheels were coming off the ground while cornering, and not an inch-er-so either.

Soft != Wheels coming off of the ground.

That's a clue that the rear suspension is stiffer than the front, which makes a car's handling balance lean more towards oversteer. Useful for neutralizing a FWD car's handling and lessening understeer. VW is known to do this, actually, and it's part of why their cars are fun to drive.

 

[Joey D]

Damn I know what you mean about the Beltline. I was on there today with some buddies of mine, we went over to Kentwood last night because my buddy's dad ended up in the hospital (nothing real serious), and some lady wasn't paying one bit of attention (on a cell phone) and almost ran me off the road.

 

[YSSMAN]

Yeah, your photos show that you were right by my house. My inncodent happened further north on the Beltline by the Ryder rental place, but you were right by my house (I live in Kentwood, but the address is Grand Rapids). You couldn't have been much more than five or ten minutes away from here for part of that...

 

[Joey D]

I go over that way quite a bit, I'll have to let you know next time I'm there.

 

[Duke]

The suspension was so soft the rear wheels were coming off the ground while cornering, and not an inch-er-so either.

That's not necessarily a bad thing. Besides, FWD VWs are known for lifting an inside hoof in the tight stuff.

I'll see if I can find a video of an older ACR doing the Neon Shuffle through a fast slalom, and you'll see that it's not necessarily a mark of crappy handling.

 

[Joey D]

From an autocross a few weeks ago

And this GTI actually won his class

 

[Duke]

There's a school of thought that says if an FWD is not lifting the inside rear at corner entry, you're not getting enough braking, and if an RWD is not lifting the inside front at exit, you're not putting the power down.

 

[Scaff]

The suspension was so soft the rear wheels were coming off the ground while cornering, and not an inch-er-so either.

Over here in Europe its a common sight with front wheel drive racing, and with the better sorted FWD road cars,as a number have mentioned its certainly not an indicator of a poor handling car at all


Regards

Scaff

 

[Pupik]

Sorry for your loss, Iceman.

Good luck getting it straightened out, literally and figuratively. Nice older cars are a blessing and a curse - cheap to own and operate, but very vulnerable to totalling on stuff like this.

Older cars (over 10 years old) tend to be less complex to repair, as the assembly process tends to involve less parts, which means far less "R&I" (remove and inspect) time. R&I time really adds up with visible multiple panel damage, since insurance companies and body shops both hate to do the same work twice because something was missed. That's a big reason customer-paid repairs are only performed by the extremely rich.

 

[Duke]

Hey, YSSMAN, any update on your car?

 

[YSSMAN]

Shoot, I completely forgot!

The car is all fixed up now, new fender and paint. I picked it up on Friday, and it feels great having the car back. I'll probably take some photos in a bit, its just about lunch time here...

 

[Duke]

Excellent. I'm really glad they didn't total it out on you.

 

[Perfect Balance]

EDIT: Never mind I didn't realize it was 3 pages back.