Welp. Someone has to say it.... (AI thread)

  • Thread starter Thread starter blademask
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Spagetti69
Is what smart? You stopping or them hitting you.
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Its not a problem in other simulations. They stop or avoid the obvious multiple ton vehicle stopped in the middle of a road. Even if the user is stupid. The users IQ has nothing to do with simulated A.I. Thats not the only problem with the A.I, it just seems that the A.I's problems stem from not being fully aware of the player vehicle, which is why its not nearly as competitive to race GT's A.I as it is other titles.
 
Its not really about the crashes guys, it really isn't. Its about GT's base A.I remaining the same from 5 years ago, and not being highlighted by PD for being improved in any video footage.

We've seen the graphics, all these other great features, but no featurette on why GT5's A.I is going to dwarf the A.I of the previous GT series.

You guys can find crashes all day, great. But crashes don't define simulated A.I, its just a good place to explain how GT lacks compared to other sims. Please don't turn this into a "Well this happened once in real life, so that explains why GT's A.I is below other sims!" - Thread.
 
Here's a shameful fact:
I was playing Grand Prix Legends (PC-1998) the other day and I crash. But, the cars swereve around me and AVOID ACCIDENTS!

GT on the other hand being 10+ years older still has bad AI that do not swerve and avoid accidents.

This is shameful. PD has not bothered to put a 10+ year old technology yet crucial thing in their game.
 
Blade I'm with you on this one I just thought the post deserved a bit of sarcasm. A game I know of which I won't mentione here for fear of flame fest has good AI. Even the AI drivers have their own profiles and driving styles some careless some fearless and some conservitive styles to name a few. I had an instance where I was on pole and took of faultless. Coming onto my second lap I notice someones bumper on the grid. I later find a struggling AI pitting. I saved the replay to see what had happened and behind me unawares a major pile up occured whilst I was on my merry way. I still think of that race now. It has never happened again but each new race feels fresh and exciting as anything can happen.
 
I agree too. I can think of at least two games that the ai crash without you provoking them. One of the games is from 1996. I do not agree though that GT's AI havent improved, when clearly it has.
 
Oh and cut the rubber band too if it's added. Hopefully it can be turned off as I can see instances where it is needed for beginers etc.
 
Here is an answer to the complainers:

If you REALLY want to race against better AI, stop playing video games and join your local track day club and do it for real. Then you won't have to worry about it any more. 👍
 
Problem is that its expensive and most of us (like me) are under the driving age.
 
Spagetti69
Oh and cut the rubber band too if it's added. Hopefully it can be turned off as I can see instances where it is needed for beginers etc.
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Oddly enough, I had a friend getting really mad at me whenever I turned the -catchup- thing on on GT4, in order to me wanting to 'help' him, because GT4 was the only racing game he ever played and only when he was at my house...
just saying, not only the 'pros' hate getting their cars behaviour screwed by some stupid game logic. 💡
 
AI has been crappy and unaware from first to last GT, and although KY said three things to get major overhaul in GT5 will be sound, AI and Online, I believe only online will be considerately better. AI and sound seem poor as they've always been...sadly... :(
Maybe, just maybe, we'll be pleasantly surprised, but I doubt it.
 
R1600Turbo
Here is an answer to the complainers:

If you REALLY want to race against better AI, stop playing video games and join your local track day club and do it for real. Then you won't have to worry about it any more. 👍
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I mean really? Because GT's A.I doesn't perform as other sims when it comes to A.I we should quit racing games all together? I get you're kidding a bit, I hope.

But Its really not bashing when it comes to GT's A.I. Crying about treadmarks, is useless. Has nothing to do with gameplay, and I even didn't mind not having damage since I don't believe that you have to simulate them fully for a driving physic model to work. But with the A.I its always just been a case of other things making up for it, so it was excusable. Now though, its pretty much the basic form of A.I in racing games. It even was when GT was created now that I think about it.

I get both sides of the A.I argument, but the problem is its a standard feature. Its like GT5 is this amazing super prototype alien sports car..

with drum brakes
 
To the OP:

Really good post. The AI in a game is what makes it. Killzone 2 has a pretty good AI for a FPS as the enemy flanks your position forcing you to keep moving or find a secure place to fire from, it wasn't a revelation but it was a noticeable improvement.

Game balancing is a big part of testing and development but it should be done intelligently and not end up resulting in very predictable races.

If the AI gets boring or just doesn't cut it from day then we've been promised the online functionality is a top priority. https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=124668
 
blademask
I mean really? Because GT's A.I doesn't perform as other sims when it comes to A.I we should quit racing games all together? I get you're kidding a bit, I hope.
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I was a bit, but I'm just tired of all the whining around here. :yuck:
 
Spagetti69
Blade I'm with you on this one I just thought the post deserved a bit of sarcasm. A game I know of which I won't mentione here for fear of flame fest has good AI. Even the AI drivers have their own profiles and driving styles some careless some fearless and some conservitive styles to name a few.
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If you're talking about Forza 3 (or 2) the game has godawful AI, it's simply terrible and totally unaware of the player being on the track.

On that note, I'm also very disappointed in the AI in GT5 videos. It appears to have taken a step backwards towards GT4/Forza style AI that has no idea that the player is even on the track. In the GTR video you could see the player struggling to keep the car straight whilst the AI just tried to drive through him, same rubbish you get in Forza games.

It's a shame too, because the AI in GT5P was leaps and bounds ahead of this. AI cars would actually go around you if you were stopped on the racing line (even during overtaking maneuveurs when passing other AI drivers) and they would also make mistakes and mess up. They'd sometimes take risks trying to outbrake you on corners (and suffer for it) or try to cut in on the inside. They also didn't drive in neat lines like a train, and would battle for positions with each other and everything making for actual fun situations when attempting to work your way through the pack.

I've no idea how they've ended up taking a huge step backwards from GT5P's AI, totally baffles me.
 
Thank you for speaking out. You probably chose the wrong place to do it. I mean no offence to fellow GT fans but here any criticism of the game will be met with incredible hostility. Most people who go on this site are what they call "fanboys" which means they will always defend the game even if they know that you're right.
I completely agree about the AI.
Also, although I know some people will disagree with me on this but I really enjoyed the AI in Shift. I may have been a tad too agressive at times but overall I felt like I was racing against real racing drivers. The othe cars reacted to my action, avoided collisions whenever possible and tried to overtake me when they had the chance.
The AI in GT on the other hand feels robotic and unresponsive, which constantly reminds me that I'm playing a game and not driving a supercar.
 
I quiet like the GT5P's AI. Especially after playing the NFS Shift demo.

Yeah I use to dislike the single player arcade mode in GT5P, because the No.1 car is always way quicker than the "pack". But then I guess this is what it's like in real life races. In F1 the no.1 car is always way ahead of second and third etc.. so I guess that is just reality.

How I play now is I slow down to last place at start and try to catch them one by one. Usually get to about 4th, 5th places and I'll stop.
 
cucpake2
I quiet like the GT5P's AI. Especially after playing the NFS Shift demo.

Yeah I use to dislike the single player arcade mode in GT5P, because the No.1 car is always way quicker than the "pack". But then I guess this is what it's like in real life races. In F1 the no.1 car is always way ahead of second and third etc.. so I guess that is just reality.

How I play now is I slow down to last place at start and try to catch them one by one. Usually get to about 4th, 5th places and I'll stop.
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Do you think that in F1 the number one car always wins?
 
Do all gt games have rollings starts or is there some grid action.
 
lol here is my thing... they spend time on GPS and CAN... all this extra stuff... but cant get some of the basic elements of the game down.

graphics don't necessarily make a better game...

if they have been making the game for so long and delayed it AGAIN... somewhere along the line some dots aren't connecting for PD.

maybe then need to cut all the BS they are working on and bring back a racing game like GT2... GT2 was by-far the best GT game.
 
I agree that the A.I seems to have not been improved since Prologue, but I'm really hoping the builds shown so far are holding back as suggested by some things KY has said, including what he has said about the GT5 TT.

I find myself racing in GT5P against the A.I more than humans online because of connection errors, long matching, and usuallly I'm placed in a race with either 1 other driver who spins out every lap who I wait for constantly, or a pack of wreckless drivers who wreck me on the first lap.

My problems with the A.I in GT5P are less than my problems with A.I in GT4, but the A.I still seems to always force me off the driving line or track if I'm beside them, they also brake later than me yet make the turn (with the same car) as well as start accelerating earlier, while taking the exact same lines.. to the point that even a car that loses control in the race will do it on the same corner every lap.

I really hope for more dynamic A.I, and before I finish my post I'd also like to point out another problem I have with the A.I is on the Daytona Road Course on the long straights as I am faster no matter what car I'm driving which makes it seem like the A.I is going 90-95% throttle on these sections making long races on this track boring as I will lap my opponents.
 
zlo2
Thank you for speaking out. You probably chose the wrong place to do it. I mean no offence to fellow GT fans but here any criticism of the game will be met with incredible hostility. Most people who go on this site are what they call "fanboys" which means they will always defend the game even if they know that you're right.
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No, we just enjoy the game for what it is and don't nit-pick at every little freakin' detail.
 
First off, AI in GT5P and GT5 is far more advanced then the drones in GT1-4

Why can't anyone get the AI right?

Only way to get a realistic race is to race real people

Sorry, but no matter how good the programmer is the AI will still have problems. It's just impossible .

Sure, other racing games may have better AI but their AI still has numerous problems.

I've seen games with AI that doesnt run you over in turns, but on the other hand they have unrealistic reaction times and are too timid in overtaking.

Final point is, those waiting for 'realistic' AI will be waiting for a long time
 
^ I agree. Perfect Ai is impossible. My main complaint is that the Ai in Arcarde mode is too slow. A GTLM with R1 tires is too fast even if the Ai is set to 100. Then if you equip a lower tire the car is just too frustrating to bother with.
 
i do agree most people on here are MAJOR fan boys... they have all the right to be... i am sort of myself and that's why i nit-pick at the game because i want this game to be really good... and play other games... not just GT5P and TT all day... and i see other racing game doing things right that GT fails at...

i know i will be very disappointing with a few aspects of the game... as far as AI goes... in any GT.. i always run circles around them...they just seem mindless... they let you pass them with ease without putting up a fight.

BUT, i will still play and enjoy the game for its career and online... but GAMES are made for FUN in the 1st place... gamers look at a game from all angles... some people on here just look at the driving aspect... because they don't see that GT is as much of a game as Call of Duty or Need for Speed...

look at it this wat... GT is to racing game as what Operation Flash point is to shooting games... its based on "More realistic" actions/reactions... for the lack of a better term.

but at the end of the day this is JUST A GAME... it will not teach you how to drive or race, no matter how many laps you run around the Noobering...

you want "The REAL Thing" go race IN REAL LIFE.

i play GT because i love cars... i LOVE my car... i love how in GT i can buy a stock RX7 (fd) and just turn it into a beast... that's why i play GT... i dont care much for AI not that there is ONLINE!!!!!!!!!!
 
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RedBaron
You needn't be a music composer to hear a false tone, mate. Fanboys want us at least to apologize for discussing. On a discussion forum? :lol:
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No you don't need to be a music composer, but if you were a music composer you might know how to make the music still sound good regardless of the note. However, I like to think of myself as a GT enthusiast, more than a 'fanboy.' Yes I hate MS, and FM3, but discussion is always great for countless things. Just the fact that the AI isn't entirely hopeless. A computer is not always going to be 100% correct, and it's probably not where it should be. But in the end just enjoy the game. The happiness of life isn't within GT, and people should maybe relax a little bit. If this was a $1,000 simulator and a complete package with model car playing with your own money for each race, then you can take it to the extremes. Just be happy with what you got, or what you guys don't even know about yet.
 

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