What are more gears good for?

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Bushido007

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BigVinZ007
I always liked 6 but if they are set right like in the Ford Mark 4 or the Mercedes 300 SL I'll enjoy 4 as well.

The 458 and SLS are driving me nuts with 7, soon it'll be 8, 9 or even 10.

What's the use of more gears and what do y'all prefer?
 
More gears means more times at the peaking power band.
4 gears = reaching maximum output 4 times from stop to maximum speed.

5-6 is the best IMO since I only do 2nd gear standing starts.
IIRC there's a BMW with 8 gears.

Just in case.
No It's not "beemer", it's BMW.
 
Ecchi-BANZAII!!
More gears means more times at the peaking power band.
4 gears = reaching maximum output 4 times from stop to maximum speed.

5-6 is the best IMO since I only do 2nd gear standing starts.
IIRC there's a BMW with 8 gears.

Just in case.
No It's not "beemer", it's BMW.
Click to expand...

BMW car = Bimmer
BMW motorcycle = Beamer

:p
 
Lexus also has an eight speed in their LS430 though that's probably not so much for acceleration purposes as it is for better ride and fuel economy.
 
More gears should mean more time at maximum power, but also more shifting time.
I don't know why there isn't more time spent trying to make continuously variable "gearbox's" useable, so we can spend almost all of the time at peak power.
 
Anyone here tried the Nissan GT-R Concept LM? It has a 7 speed trans in it and does an amazingly good job at keeping the engine right in its peak power band and it shifts are almost "seamless" at full throttle.It's not modeled at all like the 7 Speed in say.....the Maclaren MP4-12C but it definetly makes good use of all those gears!👍
 
LordZycon
Lexus also has an eight speed in their LS460 though that's probably not so much for acceleration purposes as it is for better ride and fuel economy.
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I'm pretty sure its the 460, plus my dad works at a Lexus dealership.
 
I hate any more than 6, and I usually lose count much more often. 6 gears gets you to 200mph just as quickly as 7 or 8, or 12. (except extreme cases, such as maybe a high-turbo Civic, etc.)
There's a happy point like everything else, before the extra shifting loses more time than quick gears can gain, And I find that 7 gears only become useful in cars that regularly hit 200+MPH.

It's more important that gears be spaced properly than having mass quantities of them.
 
Ecchi-BANZAII!!
More gears means more times at the peaking power band.
4 gears = reaching maximum output 4 times from stop to maximum speed.

5-6 is the best IMO since I only do 2nd gear standing starts.
IIRC there's a BMW with 8 gears.

Just in case.
No It's not "beemer", it's BMW.
Click to expand...

Not only that. In street cars, there are a lot of issues regarding the number of gears. In every gear box, there is a gear ratio for each gear. Along with the final differential ratio and considering the engine power output and its torque curve and powerband, a manufacturer determines what is needed for suitable use.

Let's say a car reaches it's maximum speed in 5th gear, at 6,500 RPM. A 6th gear isn't needed for speed, but can be useful for reducing consumption in road.

Considering the multiplier involved in each gear, and the fact that a car needs very few HP to maintain an average speed of 90 MPH, it's very useful to have an "extra" final gear for road use, while the others can be efficient for performance purposes. This has a lot more meaning along the tendency of downsizing that's going on nowadays.

In race cars, I assume it's the same logic, but leaning to the performance side of things.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

Peace.
 
A few years back in Formula 1 they had the constantly variable tranmissions. If you're getting to the point of 10 gears I don't see the reason why you wouldnt develop a CVT type system, which would be ultimately better.
 
Bigbazz
A few years back in Formula 1 they had the constantly variable tranmissions. If you're getting to the point of 10 gears I don't see the reason why you wouldnt develop a CVT type system, which would be ultimately better.
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Because CVT feels weird when it shifts and drivers use shifting as reference for breaking and other such things.
 
ALMSDriver
Anyone here tried the Nissan GT-R Concept LM? It has a 7 speed trans in it and does an amazingly good job at keeping the engine right in its peak power band and it shifts are almost "seamless" at full throttle.It's not modeled at all like the 7 Speed in say.....the Maclaren MP4-12C but it definetly makes good use of all those gears!👍
Click to expand...

That car is a beast. The first time I drove it I was like :D

I wonder sometimes if they managed to get over the shift time and weight of multitudes of gears, if they could make really high performing efficient engines/drivetrains because the engine was always at peak output. I guess thats what a CVT is for, but when I drove the Prius, which has a CVT in GT4, I was like :yuck:
 
Production cars with more gears -> higher gears could be reserved to low rpms and save fuel/engine

For performance, all depends of power and torque curve, and change-gear-time.

- With flat curves, usually time spent changing gears isn't balanced with the close ratio. For example the Audi R15 TDI had 5 gears, because the Diesel engine produced tons of torque at every rpm.

- With gasoline race engines, which have a peaky power curve, the more the gears, the more the time spent in power band. But beware of change gear time balancing.

- With modern race engine, and modern semi-automatic transmissions, change gear time is about 10-100ms, so they can use 7 or 8 gears without losing much time

- With CVT, change gear time is 0, so the number of 'gears' can be increased to infinity
 
Stradivis
Not only that. In street cars, there are a lot of issues regarding the number of gears. In every gear box, there is a gear ratio for each gear. Along with the final differential ratio and considering the engine power output and its torque curve and powerband, a manufacturer determines what is needed for suitable use.

Let's say a car reaches it's maximum speed in 5th gear, at 6,500 RPM. A 6th gear isn't needed for speed, but can be useful for reducing consumption in road.

Considering the multiplier involved in each gear, and the fact that a car needs very few HP to maintain an average speed of 90 MPH, it's very useful to have an "extra" final gear for road use, while the others can be efficient for performance purposes. This has a lot more meaning along the tendency of downsizing that's going on nowadays.

In race cars, I assume it's the same logic, but leaning to the performance side of things.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

Peace.
Click to expand...
I knew all that already but thanks for sharing it.

Speaking of and gearboxes, I saw this video about a year ago according to my video history on my YT account.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXrHDjcQIIU
 
Bushido007
I always liked 6 but if they are set right like in the Ford Mark 4 or the Mercedes 300 SL I'll enjoy 4 as well.

The 458 and SLS are driving me nuts with 7, soon it'll be 8, 9 or even 10.

What's the use of more gears and what do y'all prefer?
Click to expand...

Ecchi-BANZAII!!
IIRC there's a BMW with 8 gears.
Click to expand...

LordZycon
Lexus also has an eight speed in their LS430 though that's probably not so much for acceleration purposes as it is for better ride and fuel economy.
Click to expand...

Already in GT5 there's the Lexus IS F and the Nissan Skyline 350 GT-8 with 8 forward ratios (and that Skyline was also in GT4).
 
Duck
- With CVT, change gear time is 0, so the number of 'gears' can be increased to infinity
Click to expand...

Wouldn't a CVT be hindered in real life by the size of the gearbox itself? In a way you can have infinite gear ratios inside a given minimum and maximum value?
 
I like having a lot of gears, gives me option to choose when I enter a curve or turn, like the RM'ed Lexus, I love the 8 gears, it's hard to believe it can go that fast. But generally, I like the area of 6-7 gears, it feels most proper to me, 2J/2D with 3 gears is insanely fun but really lacks the "control" I want when going into a turn.
 
We have gears to enable flexibilty in acceleration from various speeds. The more gears we have the more flexibility we have. Some cars would get away with having 1 gear, but if any kind of decent top speed is required or crusing speed, then the motor would have to be quite torquey at low revs, and would require huge clutch slip to get it moving. I can quite easily pull away in 4th gear on my motorcycle, with that same gear being able to hit 140mph. But I need lots of clutch slip, with the gear only feeling useful in terms of acceleration above 3000rpm (40mph). If I drop below 3000rpm in 4th gear then the acceleration becomes sluggish, and not very useful.

Gears are a multiplier of torque, generally the more the better, but big torquey engines that are very flexible often have 5, and dont really benefit hugely having any more.
 
Stradivis
Wouldn't a CVT be hindered in real life by the size of the gearbox itself? In a way you can have infinite gear ratios inside a given minimum and maximum value?
Click to expand...

No, a CVT uses one 'variable' gear... I looked it up on Wikipedia and got very confused, but they really are infinite, and if not that, the car itself would hit a wall where it can't push the car any faster through the aerodynamic drag anyway.

BubbleBelly542
Because CVT feels weird when it shifts and drivers use shifting as reference for breaking and other such things.
Click to expand...

Some CVTs on the market today simulate gears electronically, so the driver still has that control over the car. It's the best of both worlds, in a way.
 
neema_t
No, a CVT uses one 'variable' gear... I looked it up on Wikipedia and got very confused, but they really are infinite, and if not that, the car itself would hit a wall where it can't push the car any faster through the aerodynamic drag anyway.

Some CVTs on the market today simulate gears electronically, so the driver still has that control over the car. It's the best of both worlds, in a way.
Click to expand...

Infinite gears inside a minimum and maximum value, which are determined by the gearbox itself. That's why I asked about the size of the gearbox.

A CVT isn't a magical device, but a gearbox with continuous variables in itself, only limited by its maximum and minimum values of gear ratios.
 
The new Audi A7 I think, might be the S7 I don't remember it was in the news paper a day or two ago, has an 8 speed standard.
 
One example of CVT is Mitsubishi's iConcept vehicle, which in GT5, always retains a certian RPM at full throttle. It only drops with a drop in throttle. In theory, this is the 'infinite gearing' that they mean. Another example is the Honda insight (premium) which holds it's RPM on full throttle. It only rises when you appropach top speed.

Stradivis
Infinite gears inside a minimum and maximum value, which are determined by the gearbox itself. That's why I asked about the size of the gearbox.

A CVT isn't a magical device, but a gearbox with continuous variables in itself, only limited by its maximum and minimum values of gear ratios.
Click to expand...

You can imagine the CVT gears as a 'cone', where the drive gear gets progressively larger until you hit the largest gear, or end of the 'cone', which is effectively top speed.
 
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Bushido007
I always liked 6 but if they are set right like in the Ford Mark 4 or the Mercedes 300 SL I'll enjoy 4 as well.

The 458 and SLS are driving me nuts with 7, soon it'll be 8, 9 or even 10.

What's the use of more gears and what do y'all prefer?
Click to expand...

Whats your problem are you that lazy? Just change gear to match the corner no big deal. You wouldn't like to play F1 games since gear change is very fast up and down.
 

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