What could Rockstar Games of today teach Polyphony about designing a compelling game?

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If you're looking for collabs to create a good GT story mode you'll need to look at Kojima, or Naughty Dog, BioWare, etc.
Gran Turismo 2 is web-like. You pick a starting point; one of dozens of suitable first cars, and work your way across the game as directly or tangentially as you choose. GT1-5 are varying degrees of webby
Interesting references for me to explore, thx.

Imagine playing RDR2 (a fantastic game imo), but to get to a particular area on the map you had to play the same mission 30 times to unlock it, and it was a really tedious mission unless you paid real money to open that area instantly. Imagine how awful RDR2 would be, that's GT7.
Yes, current Cafe menus are not clicking. It's clumsy, transactional and lacks authenticity from a developer that has dedicated their whole existence to cars. You would think they could and should do something really special here.



I found this YouTuber that reflects more or less how I measure a game. I know for some, grinding and exploiting loopholes like the recent Abarth vs Tomahawks are all they want. But, this type of gameplay is not for me. Unlike passive formats like books, films, and music, modern video games possess interactivity. This feature to dictate how th gameplay unfolds is hugely entertaining and I'm wondering if we have yet to see the best incarnations.

Sidebar. I think some are getting too hung up on Rockstar's type of stories, storytelling style and story contents. No one is suggesting that GT titles include horse racing. It's amazing how some can not help but bring things down to their level.

I have been stating repeatedly, try think about how a musician from one genre listens and gets ideas/inspiration from other musicians from different genres. Transcribing design features directly from Rockstar's past titles into a GT game is not how one innovates. Remember, someone famously said once, good artists copy, great artists steal.

This video by Fizhy is quite long, but he summarizes his thoughts well in the first few minutes.

 
So if not Rockstar's "type of stories, storytelling style and story content", what exactly do you want PD to "steal" and implement in GT?

While I don't think GT7's cafe menu is a particularly enriching experience, it's a bit of a reach to look at GTA or RDR for a solution when PD's done better in the past. As has other studios within the racing genre.
 
I'm not really sure what PD could steal from R*, what are we looking at here? Because R* have never been compelling unless you enjoy trimming your beard and being a "try-hard edgy" douche. Their (R*) games have been subpar and quite honesty the epitome of gaming trash.

They know how to make a good soundtrack but other than that? Eh.
 
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If you think GT7 in-game economy is rigged and frugal, can you imagine if PD followed the use of in-game credits like how it is done in GTA??? ...

For example, there's an online mission you can opt-in to earn $1M in-game money if you are successful ...

But you have to spend $2M on a Submarine to unlock the mission, and invest atleast an hour of your life, plus someone else from the public lobby to help you to pull it off ...

That's the R* way ...
 
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In all honesty, I think PD's SP outline for GT8 is hiding in plain sight, and it largely revolves around the further development and implementation of Sophy and 🌶 AI.

Couple quick pretenses for GT8 first though:

  • Make 1/4 of the cars (with some high end road and race cars) coupled with 1/4 of the tracks/layouts, available at launch to everyone -albeit strictly in a TT or quick race arcade mode. Give the most casual of casual gamer-types what they want. They'll have moved on regardless within a month anyways. Not to mention, they make up a large percentage of the people who buy this game.
  • Most of the existing structure of previous games, and yes, even the menu books of this game are very good at teaching people about these cars, and car culture. The races themselves need to just be much more dynamic in nature.




I think GT8's career should be dynamic to the player's capabilities and skills progression by an automatically scalable Sophy/normal AI at the most basic level. With options of starting your career at medium or hard difficulties if so chosen (with the option of changing the difficulty level at a whim if desired, as currently is the case). Give player's the ability to acquire cars via purchasing through credits earned, or by championships won. Weekly challenges as recently added and TT's are integral to game progression, as well as vehicle acquisition, with the weekly TT events awarding you said car from said event, upon completion with a lap time that is based off of a combined algorithm of online players, and the said "scalable Sophy" that has improved according to your skill progress via your licenses completion. Credit bonuses are awarded on top of reward cars to compensate for faster target times.

As you progress through your career and license acquisition, more events and tracks become available to you (nothing new here). There are ongoing single player Sophy/🌶 - based Manufacturer and Nation Cup seasons that are mirroring current IG multiplayer Manu/Nations seasons...... albeit one week behind, to encourage players to watch Gran Turismo's youtube channel that live stream's the top split time slots for said Manu/Nation cup races. The dynamic weather patterns will mimic that of the live-streamed top split lobby. This will incentivize SP players to tune into the stream, and figure out the strategy for their upcoming SP Manu/Nations race. All Manu/Nation SP races have a completion period requirement that lasts until the start of the next multiplayer season,; albeit one week behind said "Official Season".

*** Why PD hasn’t implemented previous GTWS events into the game's SP content, even with generic "custom race" AI is absolutely beyond me. I mean, the coding has already been done for the races in a different capacity. Geezus Christ PD!!

"Invite Only" cars are achieved via game progression. The most likely candidate would be competing in single player manufacturer cups that don't just include GR.3/4 cars, but where you have to pick a manufacturer to compete in various PP and Car-era-related series.

Full-on simulation mode that incorporates B-spec - where you have to pay for and finance a race team throughout a season involving both race cars and road cars. You also have have to pay for wear and tear on the cars as well as damages incurred during the race. All races revolve around a "race weekend" format. You can create your own series as well.

"Update Cars" can be acquired for free until the next update occurs - by way of completing a set of mission or "weekly events"- style tasks for each car. After the next update drops, the previous update's cars can no longer be acquired through IG missions; unless they can be acquired for free in game by way of previous mentioned series. All cars (other than invite-only cars) can be purchased from their respective dealership for credits or MTX's if the player chooses so, at any time.

All events within the game (with the exception of "limited time events", can be completed and repeated as stand alone events at any time - nothing new there








I don't think any kind of set-progression career, let alone a Rock*-esque story mode is what this game needs to thrive. Personally, I think its a great sandbox game as is, and its beyond me how people have trouble making their own fun within the game. I just think PD needs to figure out a way how to somehow fashion a sandbox-style game into a sandbox-style career mode - while at the same time preserving the quirkiness that Polyphony, and Gran Turismoi are known for.
 
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I'm not really sure what PD could steal from R*, what are we looking at here? Because R* have never been compelling unless you enjoy trimming your beard and being a "try-hard edgy" douche. Their (R*) games have been subpar and quite honesty the epitome of gaming trash.

They know how to make a good soundtrack but other than that? Eh.
There's no reason to be this upset that GTA eclipsed Gran Turismo as a cultural force in the gaming space. It did happen 20 years ago, after all.
 
I suppose there is something to be said about the sense of player agency and interactivity in Rockstar's open worlds and how they account for just about everything a player might attempt (outside of something that's obviously game breaking).

Meanwhile, PD will consider any unintended interaction of game mechanics an "exploit" and quickly remove it. It's Kaz's way or the highway.
 
“What can toxic edgy poop teach to lazy has-beens about designing a compelling game?”

No thanks.
 
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In all honesty, I think PD's SP outline for GT8 is hiding in plain sight, and it largely revolves around the further development and implementation of Sophy and 🌶 AI.
I think GT8's career should be dynamic to the player's capabilities and skills progression by an automatically scalable Sophy/normal AI at the most basic level.
*** Why PD hasn’t implemented previous GTWS events into the game's SP content, even with generic "custom race" AI is absolutely beyond me. I mean, the coding has already been done for the races in a different capacity. Geezus Christ PD!!
Interesting...I would love for PD to start conceptualizing around these ideas. Thx for sharing.
I suppose there is something to be said about the sense of player agency and interactivity in Rockstar's open worlds and how they account for just about everything a player might attempt (outside of something that's obviously game breaking).
Exactly...but how this insight translates to GT, I'm not sure...but if PD could give us their version, it would add to the GT franchise lore.

“What can toxic edgy poop teach to lazy has-beens about designing a compelling game?”

No thanks.
Thanks for playing.
 
Exactly...but how this insight translates to GT, I'm not sure...but if PD could give us their version, it would add to the GT franchise lore.
At the end of the day, I don't think it's a matter of what GT can learn from Rockstar. It's just fundamentally different design philosophies.

Both studios are well aware of what their players will do to test the limits of their games. One studio encourages out of the box solutions, the other releases emergency hotfixes to patch out those solutions.

That said, I do wonder what PD's take on an open world GT might look like...
 
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To answer the thread title, I'd say nothing. GTA and GT are two completely different games, with very different developers on opposite sides of the world, that happen to feature vehicles. The former offers tons of lawyer-friendly knock-offs and snarky commentary alluding to each car's real-world equivalent, whereas the latter is something much more sincere and genuine - and possibly even classy. That said, both GTA and GT are both technically-impressive franchises, whether it's a vast approximation of Miami in the upcoming GTA VI, or the latter's ability to pay intimate attention to detail, such as the rev chime on both Mazda RX-7 models.

You may as well ask what Gran Turismo can learn from Mario Kart.
 
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An actually fun local splitscreen experience? :lol:
Since the November update I've had a few very fun 3-player splitscreen races, particularly Cappuccino/Beat/Mini at Tsukuba and three identical Tundras at the snow oval. The only thing the mode needs now is proper access to rental cars like GT4 had. Maybe giant bananas.
 
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