What do you make of Kaz's answer regarding GT5s sound

[Scaff]

While I agree with Famine's comments here it does still raise a few points for me:

• I think Kaz is being rather generous with this when applied to certain cars, which may well have 'real' sounds, but 'real' as in from a different car (most of the Lambo's spring to mind here).
• The element of production in regard to sounds is what shocks the most, these may be straight from the recording, but that does then beg the question as to why? Nothing sounds good as a straight from the source recording, you could take any musical recording pre-production and in most cases it will sound unbalanced and nasty. Yet that appears to be what Kaz says has been done with GT.

Now listening via a good system does make a difference, its still not enough of a difference to make up for the issues mentioned above. Take any of GT's competitors and do the same and they also improve. In other words GT5 via a 5.1 system only sounds 'better' if you view it in isolation.

I don't have a clue what PD seem to have against production for audio, its needed as without it sounds just don't sound 'right'. Its not cheating or false, and while it can certainly be overdone; every piece of music you listen to has been produced to better recreate what it would sound like if you were listening to it in person.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

While I agree with Famine's comments here it does still raise a few points for me:

• I think Kaz is being rather generous with this when applied to certain cars, which may well have 'real' sounds, but 'real' as in from a different car (most of the Lambo's spring to mind here).
• The element of production in regard to sounds is what shocks the most, these may be straight from the recording, but that does then beg the question as to why? Nothing sounds good as a straight from the source recording, you could take any musical recording pre-production and in most cases it will sound unbalanced and nasty. Yet that appears to be what Kaz says has been done with GT.

Now listening via a good system does make a difference, its still not enough of a difference to make up for the issues mentioned above. Take any of GT's competitors and do the same and they also improve. In other words GT5 via a 5.1 system only sounds 'better' if you view it in isolation.

I don't have a clue what PD seem to have against production for audio, its needed as without it sounds just don't sound 'right'. Its not cheating or false, and while it can certainly be overdone; every piece of music you listen to has been produced to better recreate what it would sound like if you were listening to it in person.

Succinct, Scaff 👍

I was thinking, Kaz probably means "too real" in the sense that the recording methods, and the way sound is treated spatially in the game, is real. But with the amount of cars that don't actually sound as they should (the common asthmatic GM 3.8L in place of the Z06's race-exhaust engine, as just one example) is what most fans probably want answers for, and intended or not, that's not the specific topic Kaz was answering. That's my take on things, anyways.

 

[Smuttysy]

One thing has just occurred to me, and may well be the main source of all the confusion - the use of the word "engine", rather than "exhaust".
It may well be that the engine sounds are "too realistic", but since we never really drive around in chase mode looking backwards all the time, this would be a completely pointless statement to make. Had the question and reply been specifically regarding the exhaust notes I think there would really be big problems.

Just a thought,, >;0)

 

[Famine]

Indeed. Driver San Francisco is great on anything I've put it through.

See, even faking it with more noise and bass changes how we perceive sounds - you can fake a sound and make it feel more real than the real one. There's a field called "psychoacoustics" - literally, how the brain perceives sounds - and a lot of professional sound production is conducted around not how authentic a sound can be made but how the listener will perceive it.


I doubt we're ever going to get a game that reproduces the sound of Fireforce 3 running down the drag strip - thumping you in the chest as they dump fuel into the engine and the insane scream as it goes, deafening you through earmuffs - and even if we do there's little hope for speakers that'll get that sound from screen to body.

But it'd be nice

 

[cuco33]

I have a good sound setup and GT5 sounds are bad. Not all bad, some sounds are pretty decent although not accurate nor realistic but overall sounds is by far one of the worst things in GT5. And it's not a TV speaker vs a good 5.1/7.1 proper surround setup. It is in every way crap thanks to crap audio source for the cars that are there. The 787B might sound realistic at idle but it is extremely low in volume and umpff, and when the car is running at load/hard it doesn't sound as it does in other games or in real life.

If engine sounds in GT5 are 'too realistic' then someone needs to leave the Hoover/Dyson vacuum plant for their sampling...

 

[Johnnypenso]

I also have a great sound system and while it obviously sounds better in Dolby Digital than it does thru TV speakers, better does not mean good or realistic or inspiring.

For me though, the real issue is Kaz and PD's seeming indifference to what seems to be an obvious truth regarding GT5's inadequate sound modelling. I can take a substandard product and live with it to a great degree. I don't always buy everything top of the line, I buy on value for money. But I find it insulting if someone tries to pass off something substandard as good or realistic in this case. Just be honest about it and say that a lot of the sounds are sampled, a lot of them don't fit the cars they are assigned to, and say you'll do a better job next time...or not. Just don't lie about it. I could live also with Kaz saying, "Next time guys, I promise all the Premium cars and many standards as well, will have truly accurate and dynamic exhaust notes and that you'll have more options as to whether you use an in-car sample, a chase view sample etc...regardless of the view you actually use"

Or something simliar. Just don't insult me by saying you did a wonderful job already when much of your fanbase disagrees. This type of attitude only serves to pi$$ people off and erodes long term loyalty in a hurry:idea:

 

[otakukid96]

You always make me laugh. If Kaz told you the moon was made of cheese would you believe him?

Depends on what he is talking about specifically. If it was a sculpture made of cheese, then yes. If it wasn't, then no.

 

[Grand Prix]

GT5 has perfect sounds? Sure it does. That's why a stock McLaren F1 sounds like it has the Gallardo's V10.




Seriously though, I can see what he means by "perfect sounds." Perfect as in... Sterile. Like GT5's tracks. There's just no depth to the sound. At least in cases where they used the right sound for the right car.

A lot of cars sound like they haven't been recorded at all, and were simply given another car's sound. It's not exactly new for PD either. It's especially noticeable when you put racing exhaust on a lot of cars. Understandably, with so many cars and the fact we have no idea what some of them would sound like with a racing exhaust on it, there are bound to be a few duplicates.

However, if they don't know what the car will sound like with a racing exhaust on it in real life, don't give it a chicken-🤬, Mickey Mouse sound from the fictional world of PD Land.

Seriously. Just make it louder or something. No PD, a Schwimmwagen with after-market exhaust wouldn't sound like that, because no one would put after-market exhaust on one (nobody that is sane, at least). Just leave out the option altogether on some cars if you don't know what the hell they would sound like.

At least most of the stock sounds are OK, just too sterile of course.

 

[DGXR]

It's easy to make a "great" sounding car, that doesn't sound much like the car does in real life. In other words, there are other racing games with engine sounds that are truly awesome by themselves, and at the same time they are very inaccurate for the particular vehicle. And I agree that the recording method and equipment probably have everything to do with why some engine sounds in GT5 are pretty bad. Bottom line: if I'm having fun, it doesn't matter... it's a game, try to enjoy it.

 

[Connoissuer]

Full of ****.

 

[JoRdY105]

This. 100% This. As soon as I saw that response myself on the news feed, I was in sudden shock. Kaz is either still unaware of his own faults and/or is still trying to hide all his mistakes and broken promises. It has been two years since this game released, and he and his team are still showing a commitment to ignorance from the truth.

And since the release of the HSV race car, I have been shown that this still stands today and for the foreseeable future:

PD has failed at an unimaginable scale with this one. They couldn't even borrow the sounds from the game's Ferrari F1s?

GT5:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07NaykwN-Ho
Real Sound:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebEMJy4cznQ

I had some shred of hope that GT6 would fix many of the issues GT5 had, especially the sound. I had hoped that it would be the end-all solution--the redemption, even, for every bit of stress, dissapointment, and frustration that GT5 has brought to me.

But after this, I'm done.

I'm done with the Gran Turismo series, and with my shrinking motivation to play other PS3 games and the fact that my steering wheel set is breaking down, I may well be done with the Playstation brand as well. And, unfortunately, I may also call it quits with GTPlanet. I'm done trying to look for updates on the next big game. I'm done waiting for the next GT. And I'm done trying to make witty posts in unrelated subforums just to try and get some replies and attention as I wait--they never get any anyway. It's been fun talking to all you guys, but I see no further reason to continue my existence in this forum. Thank you all for the help, advice, and other things you have given to me over the past two years.

Sier_Pinski, signing off.

.

Well that escalated quickly...

 

[MSTER232]

^ That's old .

 

[NSXDriver]

the problem is the engine samples lack in any color whatsoever, a real engine/exhaust note changes drastically throughout the rpm range, the GT5 sound is one tone that has been pitched up or down with no automation at all, no timbre or color and certainly no random effects that happen all the time in racing (exhausts spitting/popping/etc), everything is WAY too clean and thin, if i had the raw samples i could do a better job myself in all honesty.

 

[BarronGeddon]

[DELETED]

 

[phil bell]

Well having figured a Jaguar XK IRL, as well as hearing a C63 and SLS in action, they sound nothing like their real life counterparts. Wonder if it will change after the update.

 

[avens]

is there more than one photo or more info on how they recorded the hyundais recently? From what we know they only put a microphone at the end of the exhaust and that's it; not even sitting inside and do the same unprofessional method.

 

[MattZR1]

I agree the car sound are less than adequate after you put any sort of aftermarket exhaust on them. they sound serviceable stock, but they do need a meatier (more bass) sound to really get the point across that what I am driving is exciting.

I do think they need to completely rework the turbo sound from the blow off valves to creating a good supercharger whine. I've been playing a lot of NFS Most Wanted lately and driving around in the Subaru Cosworth Impreza never gets old. I drive around at let off the gas just to hear the very accurate blow off vale sounds.

Get to the Ford GT and you got that supercharger whine front and center. Love the sounds in this game and I hope GT can get their sound at least somewhat more acceptable for the next installment.

 

[JEMcG]

People who think the engine sounds are bad are listening to them on their mono speaker analogue TV through a scart.

 

[Scaff]

People who think the engine sounds are bad are listening to them on their mono speaker analogue TV through a scart.

I'm listening to them via a few grands worth of AV kit and they sound bad.

 

[FsharpAsharp]

Engine sounds too realistic? For crying out loud, Kazunori-san...

Honestly, it was truly ludicrous thing to say.

 

[Skuh]

Engine sounds too realistic? For crying out loud, Kazunori-san...

Honestly, it was truly ludicrous thing to say.

I think he had a 'point'. Not saying this ios the only problem but one of the things I have an issue with is the muting of the sound in cockpit. This is realistic but I don't want that. I want a raw meaty engine noise, even in cockpit, even if it is unrealistic.

 

[FsharpAsharp]

I didn't mean that because muted cockpit sound is natural and it should remain that way.

I love the GT series but I hate excuses. The sounds just lack depth, drama, passion, aggression or whatever you want to call it.

 

[Skuh]

I didn't mean that because muted cockpit sound is natural and it should remain that way.

I love the GT series but I hate excuses. The sounds just lack depth, drama, passion, aggression or whatever you want to call it.

I'd agree with that too.

 

[JEMcG]

I'm listening to them via a few grands worth of AV kit and they sound bad.

Clean your ears out.

 

[MoLiEG]

Crazy. Kaz IS CRAZY. 👎

No way engine sounds in GT5 are "too real". He is completely disconected with the reality of the game. For god's sake, just listen to the GT-One, the Sauber Mercedes C9... etc, etc, etc.... Sure, of them are just perfect, but the mayority of them are PURE 🤬

Kaz, You are either lying , or you have an incredibly strange disease in your ears, or you haven't played the game at all...

 

[Scaff]

Clean your ears out.

Loose the attitude or take a holiday from GT Planet - simple choice.


In regard to the topic at hand, please explain to us exactly what we all seem to be missing that makes GT sound so good?

I've spent hundreds of hours trackside and quite frankly the GT series has never come close to accurately representing the sound of the cars in contains, regardless of the tools used to replay them.

 

[JEMcG]

Crazy. Kaz IS CRAZY. 👎

No way engine sounds in GT5 are "too real". He is completely disconected with the reality of the game. For god's sake, just listen to the GT-One, the Sauber Mercedes C9... etc, etc, etc.... Sure, of them are just perfect, but the mayority of them are PURE 🤬

Kaz, You are either lying , or you have an incredibly strange disease in your ears, or you haven't played the game at all...

There is no way we can make a direct comparison as there are too many factors to take into account e.g, microphone position and microphone quality.

I'm safely assuming the PD team when recording the engine sounds, used HD sound equipment.

Take into account that even on the best 1080p youtube videos, that the sample microphone used is probably not HD, is distorted because the engine is too loud, is uploaded at extremely "lossy" quality and is generally nowhere near good enough to be compared to the near perfect quality you get on GT5.

Also very important is the fact that we listen to both GT5 and these videos at a certain volume which is lower to the volume a car produces. To be close to the volume of a Sauber C9 you would need to turn your volume up so high you would need specialised ear plugs. And that's just for inside the car.

It's quite embarrassing to read comments that haven't taken all this into account.

I've spent hundreds of hours trackside and quite frankly the GT series has never come close to accurately representing the sound of the cars in contains, regardless of the tools used to replay them.

Please see above point about volume.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

So we need to have the same decibel volume of sounds from the real life counterpart while playing GT5 to get the intended sound made by PD ? I could lose my hearing in matter of days or weeks of playing with 80+ dB of volume from my AVR

 

[Scaff]

There is no way we can make a direct comparison as there are too many factors to take into account e.g, microphone position and microphone quality.

I'm safely assuming the PD team when recording the engine sounds, used HD sound equipment.

Take into account that even on the best 1080p youtube videos, that the sample microphone used is probably not HD, is distorted because the engine is too loud, is uploaded at extremely "lossy" quality and is generally nowhere near good enough to be compared to the near perfect quality you get on GT5.

Also very important is the fact that we listen to both GT5 and these videos at a certain volume which is lower to the volume a car produces. To be close to the volume of a Sauber C9 you would need to turn your volume up so high you would need specialised ear plugs. And that's just for inside the car.

It's quite embarrassing to read comments that haven't taken all this into account.



Please see above point about volume.

Are you actually serious?

Do you even have the first clue about audio recording and production? It would certainly seem not.

If what you are claiming about were even remotely correct then nothing we listen to from a musical or film perspective would sound even remotely close to the real thing.

Oddly enough music and film manages quite well in these regards, as do countless other racing titles around, many of which manage to get sounds far closer to reality than the GT series does.

You post smacks of both a limited knowledge in this area and of clutching at straws.

Oh and for the record my home cinema, hi-fi and guitar amps are all capable of db levels that will damage hearing, however getting close to that is not a requirement for accurate sound recreation. What the BBC and ITV manage more than well enough in live broadcasts of the F1, BTCC, WTCC etc. according to you can't be done with pre-recorded and (apparently) post-produced sounds in a game?

I don't think so.

 

[Samus]

There is no way we can make a direct comparison as there are too many factors to take into account e.g, microphone position and microphone quality.

I'm safely assuming the PD team when recording the engine sounds, used HD sound equipment.

There is no such thing as a 'HD' microphone, simply microphones that allow higher decibel recording without distortion. But even so, this is PD recording an exhaust sound:

Hardly high-tech, one microphone.

Take into account that even on the best 1080p youtube videos, that the sample microphone used is probably not HD, is distorted because the engine is too loud, is uploaded at extremely "lossy" quality and is generally nowhere near good enough to be compared to the near perfect quality you get on GT5.

Are you now suggesting that every video recorded of a car features distorted sounds? Yes some of them do but any professional recording doesn't, they use perfectly adequate microphones to record a car. Yes youtube creates lossy sound but that doesn't affect the overall sound of the recording. It's no different to people listening to lossy MP3 music, it doesn't change the song or change it into something else. It's the same song but with a few bits missing in the high end.

Also very important is the fact that we listen to both GT5 and these videos at a certain volume which is lower to the volume a car produces. To be close to the volume of a Sauber C9 you would need to turn your volume up so high you would need specialised ear plugs. And that's just for inside the car.

That's complete rubbish. Hypothetically turn the volume down inside a real Sauber C9 and the sound is still the same, just quieter. Again compare it to music, if you go to a live show it's considerably louder than anything you hear in your home and earplugs are recommended, doesn't mean the music in your house is completely different and lower quality, it's just a lower dB. Go to a live show then listen to a CD of it afterwards, everything sounds the same, just quieter.

Really, the sound not being loud enough for it to be realistic is one of the silliest arguments I've heard.