What is clean racing?

[iridegravity]

How much contact should there be in a clean race? Personally, I like going completely no contact and I wont take a position unless I get through untouched most of the time. But everyone else seems to think sliding through on someones inside while removing all the paint is fine as long as both cars stay on the track, if your lucky and they don't punt you and keep on. They will play the rubbings racing card or you broke early excuse.
What does clean mean to others? I need to adjust probably.
It seems to me that 1 out of ten rooms advertising clean appear actually clean to me. The full damage room is the only place I see real effort to stay off each other and that room is hard to find. Why aren't there more?

 

[Bopop4]

True clean racing would be what you would see at a historic formula car meet. Normal clean racing would have very little rubbing with no blocking and no ramming. Races on tv are usually clean, with the exception of kyle busch.

 

[Nismo GTi]

as long as the contact isn`t blatent ramming, it`s classed as a `racing incident`.

I personally only use cockpit view, so unless I can see the car coming up behind me in the mirror, I don`t know what`s around me, so, if a car is next to me on the grid & decides to stay next to me going into turn 1, I can`t see it/don`t know it`s there, so I will take the racing line & inevitably make contact with the car on my inside, unless he either backs off, or outbrakes me, which is when I can see who`s where.

What the kids/non drivers don`t realise, is that not everyone is like them & uses chase cam (how can it be "real racing" if you`re not actually in the car?).

After the coming together, I usually get asked "how did you not see me???", to which I reply "interior view", then they have a discussion with their mates about "why do people use interior view?"

Lol, Kids have no clue.

 

[Bopop4]

If you know that he is there then you should give a half lane of space so that when he realises that you are turning in then there will be enough space to avoid a collision. Once his front wheels has broken your rear wheels then he has every right to go for the pass.

 

[iridegravity]

True clean racing would be what you would see at a historic formula car meet. Normal clean racing would have very little rubbing with no blocking and no ramming. Races on tv are usually clean, with the exception of kyle busch.

LOL no such thing as a clean Nascar race, and it aint just Kyle Busch. They all wreck. Kind of the point it's neckar. Or instead of racing it's wrecking.

 

[ryanerb]

as long as the contact isn`t blatent ramming, it`s classed as a `racing incident`.

I personally only use cockpit view, so unless I can see the car coming up behind me in the mirror, I don`t know what`s around me, so, if a car is next to me on the grid & decides to stay next to me going into turn 1, I can`t see it/don`t know it`s there, so I will take the racing line & inevitably make contact with the car on my inside, unless he either backs off, or outbrakes me, which is when I can see who`s where.

What the kids/non drivers don`t realise, is that not everyone is like them & uses chase cam (how can it be "real racing" if you`re not actually in the car?).

After the coming together, I usually get asked "how did you not see me???", to which I reply "interior view", then they have a discussion with their mates about "why do people use interior view?"

Lol, Kids have no clue.

I am BY NO MEANS a kid or even new to GT (over 30)... Ive been playing since GT1...

I dont use interior view hardly at all... Usually I use chase view (as 90% of my racing is on the DS3 (style) controller.), However when I do use my DFGT wheel I am on bumper cam... so like you I dont see what is beside me.

I feel like your comment was just a blanket statement...... You dont know me, you dont know why I do what I do....


On the OP comment, I have made mistakes and misjudged braking distance hitting the rear of others in clean rooms... not often but it has happened for more erratic drivers I have played with. In general I see clean as mistakes happen, just dont "kill me" with the hit. Of course playing AI I try never to touch them and not pass until I can but in online rules feel a bit different. It feels like each person has this excessive push to the front. And the 1st corner on the 1st lap even in the cleanest of rooms seems to be crazy where people just go nuts!

Online I see clean as mostly drive the best you can. Unfortunately there are those that just cant drive as well as others and shove you off the track... Then there are the ones like the guy I responded to that just didnt know... I have been that person before too... and then there are the "kids" that just cant control the car they have and take out 4 people when they skid out and crash on a corner... Its a huge mix. Part of the reason online is both fun and a PITA!!!!

 

[iridegravity]

as long as the contact isn`t blatent ramming, it`s classed as a `racing incident`.

I personally only use cockpit view, so unless I can see the car coming up behind me in the mirror, I don`t know what`s around me, so, if a car is next to me on the grid & decides to stay next to me going into turn 1, I can`t see it/don`t know it`s there, so I will take the racing line & inevitably make contact with the car on my inside, unless he either backs off, or outbrakes me, which is when I can see who`s where.

What the kids/non drivers don`t realise, is that not everyone is like them & uses chase cam (how can it be "real racing" if you`re not actually in the car?).

After the coming together, I usually get asked "how did you not see me???", to which I reply "interior view", then they have a discussion with their mates about "why do people use interior view?"

Lol, Kids have no clue.

I am an adult and I would be annoyed with you. once someone dissapears from your mirror and pulls alongside of you. Its time to take a turn two wide and drag race to the next corner, or hit each other, Your call. No one elses fault you can't keep up on what's happening on your inside.

 

[will-i-am]

But everyone else seems to think sliding through on someones inside while removing all the paint is fine as long as both cars stay on the track, if your lucky and they don't punt you and keep on. They will play the rubbings racing card or you broke early excuse.

Your right, to me this is not clean and is used alot. Youll have two cars in front of you so you brake earlier because they are occupying the space then a guy comes flying in not braking till the drive line says or his HUD light is flashing. Cutting you off with a side wipe knowing if you were not there he would eat sh@t and after saying your to slow. I say no you dont know how to brake or drive with others! Dirty and this is what i see most when it hapens.

 

[Exorcet]

as long as the contact isn`t blatent ramming, it`s classed as a `racing incident`.

I personally only use cockpit view, so unless I can see the car coming up behind me in the mirror, I don`t know what`s around me, so, if a car is next to me on the grid & decides to stay next to me going into turn 1, I can`t see it/don`t know it`s there, so I will take the racing line & inevitably make contact with the car on my inside, unless he either backs off, or outbrakes me, which is when I can see who`s where.

What the kids/non drivers don`t realise, is that not everyone is like them & uses chase cam (how can it be "real racing" if you`re not actually in the car?).

After the coming together, I usually get asked "how did you not see me???", to which I reply "interior view", then they have a discussion with their mates about "why do people use interior view?"

Lol, Kids have no clue.

If your going to stubbornly race in an inferior view and blame accidents you cause on that view, I think you have less of a clue than everyone else.

In a real race, your eyes are not locked onto the road ahead of you. You have some peripheral vision, and mirrors can be glanced at. You will also have someone feeding you traffic information in high enough race series. How can it be real racing if the view you're using doesn't provide a realistic view?

 

[Bopop4]

LOL no such thing as a clean Nascar race, and it aint just Kyle Busch. They all wreck. Kind of the point it's neckar. Or instead of racing it's wrecking.

I said usually, if you watch the finish of close races they are pretty clean. You have to bump at a short track but when you watch something like harvicks pass on johnson near the start or the year, one of them could have wrecked the other but they kept it clean. Thats how it is for most races, a lot better than the open gt5 rooms.

 

[iamsupernasty]

I believe clean racing means zero contact. Treat the GT5 race as if you were driving your REAL car in REAL life.

I find most minor contact does occur because of the lack of vision that interior view provides, and everything else is avoidable and unacceptable.

 

[Nismo GTi]

I am BY NO MEANS a kid or even new to GT (over 30)... Ive been playing since GT1...

I dont use interior view hardly at all... Usually I use chase view (as 90% of my racing is on the DS3 (style) controller.), However when I do use my DFGT wheel I am on bumper cam... so like you I dont see what is beside me.

I feel like your comment was just a blanket statement...... You dont know me, you dont know why I do what I do....


On the OP comment, I have made mistakes and misjudged braking distance hitting the rear of others in clean rooms... not often but it has happened for more erratic drivers I have played with. In general I see clean as mistakes happen, just dont "kill me" with the hit. Of course playing AI I try never to touch them and not pass until I can but in online rules feel a bit different. It feels like each person has this excessive push to the front. And the 1st corner on the 1st lap even in the cleanest of rooms seems to be crazy where people just go nuts!

Online I see clean as mostly drive the best you can. Unfortunately there are those that just cant drive as well as others and shove you off the track... Then there are the ones like the guy I responded to that just didnt know... I have been that person before too... and then there are the "kids" that just cant control the car they have and take out 4 people when they skid out and crash on a corner... Its a huge mix. Part of the reason online is both fun and a PITA!!!!

WOAH dude!!!!

I`m sorry that my post offended you, as it wasn`t intended to, was just putting my experiences out there.

I, like you have been playing since GT1 & use cockpit mode on every racing game that has it, as I drive for a living & race on track from time to time (took my skyline round Spa earlier this year, which was an immense experience 👍 ), so it`s the only `comfortable` view for me, the only time I ever use chase cam is when I drift, which is pretty much never.

My point was, that some people seem to think that chase cam is the only view, so don`t realise that other views are available & are being used in the same race.

That probably comes across the wrong way too, but I hope you understand what I`m trying to say?


EDIT: Just seen the other posts, think I`ll leave before I get banned.

 

[ryanerb]

EDIT: Just seen the other posts, think I`ll leave.

You just need to watch how you word things on a public forum... Not everyone is like you. We all play this game our own way. Just because we dont use the view you do or see eye to eye with you doesnt mean that we are not trying to race clean either.

BTW yes, I have autocrossed before, I have driven in the past 10 years well over 200k miles... I have owned over 30 cars in my life... My car now I wont dent.... We are all different, but we all have a passion for GT... Thats why we are on here. Nobody is better than anyone else! We are all different and see things different, thats ok. Just watch how you word things. Revise before you click Submit. Things like that... I know your frustration with the kids that are not old enough to even drive a real car (thats one reason I dont play online much) but to blanket statement like you did makes you sound like the jerk in the situation when you clearly have issues with the less experienced groups in the game. (I think most of us do but we are all on different levels... Im not perfect, not even barely good... I beat every person that I have had over to play 2 player Arcade but online I get crushed...)

GT is about development of your skill set, whether your a tuner, a driver... or anything else. Its about making friends that help you with what your after, developing your specialty and sharing what you know with the community as you feel its appropriate.

 

[iridegravity]

WOAH dude!!!!

I`m sorry that my post offended you, as it wasn`t intended to, was just putting my experiences out there.

I, like you have been playing since GT1 & use cockpit mode on every racing game that has it, as I drive for a living & race on track from time to time (took my skyline round Spa earlier this year, which was an immense experience 👍 ), so it`s the only `comfortable` view for me, the only time I ever use chase cam is when I drift, which is pretty much never.

My point was, that some people seem to think that chase cam is the only view, so don`t realise that other views are available & are being used in the same race.

That probably comes across the wrong way too, but I hope you understand what I`m trying to say?


EDIT: Just seen the other posts, think I`ll leave.

This thread isn't about picking people out or anything and you should still feel welcome here, at least by me. I respect your dilemna. But I have a mirror always, as you should mostly in Cockpit. You can usually see someone come up in your draft then dissapear to either side of your car, usually the inside if your not blocking. I think this is when you need to back off, wait to find that car while maintaining an outside line, then go for it. He should not be abl;e to run as hard off because he's maintaining an inside line (in a perfect world, but don't count on it). Then the drag race/reset is on. I think this game would play a lot better online if people just gave up the inside line once someone gets there. They reeled you in. See if you can reel them in.
Now in the first few corners, anything can and does happen and it's easy to lose track of someone on your inside, happens all the time to me. I turn down, make contact then back off in surprise.
Personally I think clean means showing some respect, which is what most racers lack. Imagine that right? The only way to prove your clean is to never pass with contact and who does that?

 

[radaralert]

Wow, seems a few guys on here need to harden up a little bit. Side to side contact in particular, is part of good close racing.

I understand people don't like being rammed and I agree with that, but overtaking is always going to involve having your car in harms way for a moment or two. Whether being passed or doing the passing, all you can do is balance risk v reward when positioning your car. Sometimes it will work out, sometimes you will have to eat dirt. That's racing

 

[ryanerb]

Wow, seems a few guys on here need to harden up a little bit. Side to side contact in particular, is part of good close racing.

I understand people don't like being rammed and I agree with that, but overtaking is always going to involve having your car in harms way for a moment or two. Whether being passed or doing the passing, all you can do is balance risk v reward when positioning your car. Sometimes it will work out, sometimes you will have to eat dirt. That's racing

I have to agree... Things happen... AI and humans are 2 WAY DIFFERENT things... lol

2 words, Intent and Experience

 

[iamsupernasty]

Wow, seems a few guys on here need to harden up a little bit. Side to side contact in particular, is part of good close racing.

Disagree. Side-To-Side racing and two drivers holdings two separate lines around a turn is good close racing.

Contact occurs only when one and/or both of the drivers get too aggressive and/or makes a mistake; that's what is determined a "racing incident". Having several "Racing Incidents" does not constitute clean racing.

It's harder in GT5 to keep totally clean, again because of camera angle and the fact that you know it's not gonna physically hurt, but contact is not clean ever.

 

[mrluckypants]

Clean racing is made harder by noobs who don't know how to use the brakes on corners.

 

[iridegravity]

Wow, seems a few guys on here need to harden up a little bit. Side to side contact in particular, is part of good close racing.

I understand people don't like being rammed and I agree with that, but overtaking is always going to involve having your car in harms way for a moment or two. Whether being passed or doing the passing, all you can do is balance risk v reward when positioning your car. Sometimes it will work out, sometimes you will have to eat dirt. That's racing

disagree 100% How many racing incidents would it take to get a real driver fired. Only a couple of course. Then he would get sacked and labeled a mistake riddled crasher than has no business in a race car.

If you don't recognize how to avoid contact and still race, your blowing it IMO.

 

[iridegravity]

Disagree. Side-To-Side racing and two drivers holdings two separate lines around a turn is good close racing.

Contact occurs only when one and/or both of the drivers get too aggressive and/or makes a mistake; that's what is determined a "racing incident". Having several "Racing Incidents" does not constitute clean racing.

It's harder in GT5 to keep totally clean, again because of camera angle and the fact that you know it's not gonna physically hurt, but contact is not clean ever.

This^^^

 

[Stratman]

Clean racing to me is knowing roughly how close you can afford to be to someone before a wreck happens- regardless of the view, it is more to me about being a gentleman and not having to win the race in the next corner.

This includes allowance for different braking zones, car handling and ping issues causing differences in where the car appears to you to where it actually is on the track.

If you have several different internationals in one room this alters depth perceptions by a huge amount. I think it is not clean when people ignore the fact that the car in front is actually 20 000 miles away driving with a half a second delay to where it looks to be for you- you have to allow for that and not put your nose to their tail.

Be a gentleman and give room, then you are clean.

There are not many of us about though I think.

Just my humble opinion.

 

[saidaouita]

I try not to make contact but considering it's a video game, I'd rather take the chance if it leads to a win.

 

[iamjajo]

I drive with a G27 and lack of view is not an excuse. I've mapped two buttons so I can look left and right. I believe the other wheels have had this ability for some time.

The maneuver you describe with another car diving inside on a turn to try and pass is an issue in real life racing too. Supposedly, the car that had the lead when entering the braking zone has the right of way...regardless of the racing line.

The best way to race clean and competitive is with friends. You get to know how they drive and whether or not they'll take high risk moves.

In open lobby, there are no real rules. The host may kick you for any arbitrary reason or may not care.

 

[Johnnypenso]

as long as the contact isn`t blatent ramming, it`s classed as a `racing incident`.

I personally only use cockpit view, so unless I can see the car coming up behind me in the mirror, I don`t know what`s around me, so, if a car is next to me on the grid & decides to stay next to me going into turn 1, I can`t see it/don`t know it`s there, so I will take the racing line & inevitably make contact with the car on my inside, unless he either backs off, or outbrakes me, which is when I can see who`s where.

What the kids/non drivers don`t realise, is that not everyone is like them & uses chase cam (how can it be "real racing" if you`re not actually in the car?).

After the coming together, I usually get asked "how did you not see me???", to which I reply "interior view", then they have a discussion with their mates about "why do people use interior view?"

Lol, Kids have no clue.

You don't need chase cam to see who's around you, just switch the track map to scale 1 or 2 and a quick glance up there just before entering the corner is usually all you need. If someone is inside or outside of you, you only need hold your lane in the corner, it's quite simple actually. I race all night long in public lobbies and never make contact with anyone, unless it's them running into me.

 

[FuelAirSpark]

Saw the "track map to scale 1 or 2" tip and tried it. Thank you, great tip! I like bumper cam.You can almost judge how many feet the car is away from you with the map zoomed in.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I'm actually quite surprised everyone doesn't know about the map scale thing yet. I learned it real early on and mention it every time I get a chance and I'd say that majority of people either don't know about it or do know about it and just don't have enough courtesy or consideration towards their fellow racers to use it.

If everyone learned to use it, it would go a long way to eliminating contact altogether, but of course one has to care about hitting someone else to begin with to want to use it...and that isn't always the case...lol....and this is what I'm referring to:

saidaouita Senior Member

I try not to make contact but considering it's a video game, I'd rather take the chance if it leads to a win.

I'd rather take second with integrity and respect for my fellow driver's racing experience, than first at any cost.

 

[berty1979]

Johnnypenso
I'm actually quite surprised everyone doesn't know about this yet. I learned it real early on and mention it every time I get a chance and I'd say that majority of people either don't know about it or do know about it and just don't have enough courtesy or consideration towards their fellow racers to use it.

If everyone learned to use it, it would go a long way to eliminating contact altogether, but of course one has to care about hitting someone else to begin with to want to use it...and that isn't always the case...lol....and this is what I'm referring to:

saidaouita Senior Member

I try not to make contact but considering it's a video game, I'd rather take the chance if it leads to a win.

I'd rather take second with integrity and respect for my fellow driver's racing experience, than first at any cost.

Well said sir!
It is a shame that everyone does not see it this way.

 

[iridegravity]

I'm actually quite surprised everyone doesn't know about this yet. I learned it real early on and mention it every time I get a chance and I'd say that majority of people either don't know about it or do know about it and just don't have enough courtesy or consideration towards their fellow racers to use it.

If everyone learned to use it, it would go a long way to eliminating contact altogether, but of course one has to care about hitting someone else to begin with to want to use it...and that isn't always the case...lol....and this is what I'm referring to:

saidaouita Senior Member

I try not to make contact but considering it's a video game, I'd rather take the chance if it leads to a win.

I'd rather take second with integrity and respect for my fellow driver's racing experience, than first at any cost.

This^^ Not sure how people drive there car with any joy after that sickening crunch sound. Just have to sit back and laugh. I feel like a failure every time it happens to me. There needs to be a game over mode.

 

[iridegravity]

I try not to make contact but considering it's a video game, I'd rather take the chance if it leads to a win.

An experienced racer doesn't "Chance" things. He drives in "facts"
I can stick this line, pass or slide. There is no try. Hard to respect anyone who can't recognize that. Part of racing, or maybe all of it is understanding limits.

 

[JaySin85]

Took a bit for me to get used to the track map zoomed in, but it works great. Has helped me be a much ckeaner racer. Glad someone mentioned it in a lobby I was in. It's just so much more fun when you can run a clean race and get a victory, or even if you dont claim first and just get some good clean battles that last for several laps.

I usually end up in really clean lobbies. With full lobby though, the back of the pack is not usually a good place to be. Usually end up getting knocked off the road and get stuck at the back, no matter how cautiously I approach that erratic driver I should be ahead of.