What is Pd's massive obsession with cheating one way rubberband ai and catch the rabbit events?

[mercgoat]

The game is already ruined by micro transactions but I'm seriously tired of every release of Gran Turismo using more and more ai that rubberband cheat to you but you don't rubberband to them. Especially when I get dumped occasionally by the ai getting a turbo boost out of nowhere in a corner.

I'm also sick of the ai getting a minute head start. There is no getting an actual race. Seems like more and more every game since gt5 seasonals. I'm sick of it.

Some people have disliked arcade based rubberband ai since the early 90s with Mario kart and motorstorm so why is pd using more and more of it in a simulator in 2022? We know how stubborn they are and how they refuse to properly communicate, but with this and the mtx I might be sticking with ac and not getting whatever is next.

 

[s0cks]

My 3 guesses are;

1. Its been that way from the start so they assume people are OK with it. I've not played other numbered GT games but from what I've read this is the case. So if true, maybe it's a case of just not touching what has seemingly worked in the past?

2. They don't have the expertise and/or development resources/time to significantly overhaul the AI.

3. They had planned to release Sophy as part of GT7 but it wasn't ready and they had to release the game. Not that I'm entirely convinced Sophy will be a fully fledged AI that can be used to fill a whole field of cars. From the marketing guff it sounds more like she'll be used as a race learning tool.

Option 2 and 3 could explain why the difficulty level only goes up to 2 chilli's. With a future AI coming in an update.

 

[TheScythed]

You could look at it from the bright side: Polyphony is obviously okay with rubberbanding.

 

[SkylineObsession]

The rubberbanding AI hasn't always been there, and not at all in endurance races. I remember in past GT games lapping the ai many times if i went crazy and entered an overpowered car for ***** and giggles.

I too am annoyed by it though, and rubberbanding ai in any game. If we're clearly faster than the ai and can gain the lead position on lap two, from the back of the grid, in (say) a three lap race, then at the end of the race the second placed car should be as far back as it would have been if it didn't suddenly receive a driving speed/skills boost. Not right up your behind.

This annoying boost by ai cars when you get into first place is becoming more common in GT, and not only is it unrealistic (did i mention annoying?), but it is essentially cheating. It also can ruin the realism a bit, especially when watching replays. How can a stock MX-5 suddenly get a boost of speed and keep up with an R34 GT-R, when only moments earlier you flew past it.

At least give players the option of turning off rubberbanding ai Polyphony! Or improve your ai so that you don't need to programme in rubberbanding.

 

[ploopsy]

Grid starts would make grinding credits too easy and reliable which wouldnt work well with PDs goal of trying to push overpriced MTX transactions. Forcing you to catch up to the leader after several laps decreases your chances of getting the dub (and larger payouts). It also pushes players to be more aggressive with their car mods (which cost valuable credits) in order to try and secure the lead as early as possible.

 

[Sn1per666]

GT5 Seasonal events and B-Spec races is where this nonsense started. I checked the replay recently on a race and the AI that started in first gained 8 seconds a lap for the first 3 laps. It was like 2:00, 1:52, 1:44. I was running 1:42s. This is how all cafe events seem to work. I don't dare call them races.

 

[wheelhp]

My guesses are;

1. PD doesn't feel the need to step up it's game since it can be pretty, show off new features and do the bare minimum for AI and people will buy it

2. I don't have any other guesses

 

[XSquareStickIt]

I am entirely convinced that PD are wholly incapable of programming semi competent AI, which is why these chase the rabbit style "races" is the only way PD can give us any sort of a goal or semblance of a challenge.

 

[wowbaggerBR]

Seems more like incomoetence in building a better AI.

Or they just do this because it's a cheap way to make regular players feel like some sort of racing god.

 

[wheelhp]

I highly doubt PD are such terrible devs that they couldn't even make a competitive AI if they wanted to. They have the funding of Sony, GT7 being a First party title.

 

[wakawakawaka]

I am deeply perplexed.
Isn't the age at which you become aware that there is something fishy going on with AI cars pace in GT, also the age you wanna realize that racing AI cars, in any game, was never meant for someone your age?
And from that age on, all the AI racing you would be doing in a racing game you would exclusively do out of absolute necessity, and you couldn't care less about realistic/unrealistic behaviour by AI.
Which is why the existence of this thread is such an insane paradox.

 

[NJ72]

I am deeply perplexed.
Isn't the age at which you become aware that there is something fishy going on with AI cars pace in GT, also the age you wanna realize that racing AI cars, in any game, was never meant for someone your age?
And from that age on, all the AI racing you would be doing in a racing game you would exclusively do out of absolute necessity, and you couldn't care less about realistic/unrealistic behaviour by AI.
Which is why the existence of this thread is such an insane paradox.

Erm, no. Other racing games have great AI which is aggressive on attack, nimble on defence and fairly clean. GT's AI is about as intelligent as my 2 year old, just slightly more predictable.

I enjoy racing AI in other games and I'm 32.

Likewise, if the online modes weren't utter garbage we'd be racing there more often

 

[wheelhp]

I am deeply perplexed.
Isn't the age at which you become aware that there is something fishy going on with AI cars pace in GT, also the age you wanna realize that racing AI cars, in any game, was never meant for someone your age?
And from that age on, all the AI racing you would be doing in a racing game you would exclusively do out of absolute necessity, and you couldn't care less about realistic/unrealistic behaviour by AI.
Which is why the existence of this thread is such an insane paradox.

Excuse me, but what the hell are you on about?

 

[RikkiGT-R]

I am deeply perplexed.
Isn't the age at which you become aware that there is something fishy going on with AI cars pace in GT, also the age you wanna realize that racing AI cars, in any game, was never meant for someone your age?
And from that age on, all the AI racing you would be doing in a racing game you would exclusively do out of absolute necessity, and you couldn't care less about realistic/unrealistic behaviour by AI.
Which is why the existence of this thread is such an insane paradox.

At no point were you even close to a rational thought there.

 

[wakawakawaka]

Erm, no. Other racing games have great AI which is aggressive on attack, nimble on defence and fairly clean. GT's AI is about as intelligent as my 2 year old, just slightly more predictable.

I enjoy racing AI in other games and I'm 32.

Likewise, if the online modes weren't utter garbage we'd be racing there more often

well then, these other games must be seriously lacking somewhere else. there's about a million things to do in GT before racing AI cars for fun.
I agree that lobbies are in a sorry state right now, but is sport also bad? haven't even tried it to be honest. Whatever the case is, I'm sure improvements are on the way.

 

[RacingManiac]

GT5 Seasonal events and B-Spec races is where this nonsense started. I checked the replay recently on a race and the AI that started in first gained 8 seconds a lap for the first 3 laps. It was like 2:00, 1:52, 1:44. I was running 1:42s. This is how all cafe events seem to work. I don't dare call them races.

This is how I remembered it as well, before that I think it might be GT4 or something with the One Lap magic stuff, then all of a sudden all the races are like that. Its so strange too since even in like the event intro videos in GT7 for like WTC 6-7-800 races you see them showing standing start races and we still get the same train of cars starting like a minute apart.

The standalone non-Cafe events have standing starts and rolling starts and without an overpower car can actually be a challenge to eek pace over AI and be strategic about fuel and stuff. AI still sucks in the sense that they have little awareness in some situation but at least they feel more like racing. The Cafe races where their pace varies wildly from beginning to end is very frustrating.

 

[ploopsy]

the "catch the rabbit" events is because grid starts would be too much of an advantage for human players and it would make grinding credits too reliable for PDs liking.

 

[kraftwerkd]

This is how I remembered it as well, before that I think it might be GT4 or something with the One Lap magic stuff, then all of a sudden all the races are like that. Its so strange too since even in like the event intro videos in GT7 for like WTC 6-7-800 races you see them showing standing start races and we still get the same train of cars starting like a minute apart.

The standalone non-Cafe events have standing starts and rolling starts and without an overpower car can actually be a challenge to eek pace over AI and be strategic about fuel and stuff. AI still sucks in the sense that they have little awareness in some situation but at least they feel more like racing. The Cafe races where their pace varies wildly from beginning to end is very frustrating.

GT4 still had a little bit of the catch-the-rabbit going on, but because the grid was only 5 opponents and the pool to select those opponents could be 20-30 different cars, the chances of seeing that type of race was pretty slim - but it still happened from time to time. Now with larger grids and potentially smaller pools to pick from, it's pretty much guaranteed you're going to spawn a "rabbit" in the grid.

 

[o000o]

They are too incompetent to create a good AI. So they hide it by giving artificial difficulty in this kind of crap in the "races".

 

[Zero2Oblivion]

I'm also sick of the ai getting a minute head start. There is no getting an actual race. Seems like more and more every game since gt5 seasonals. I'm sick of it.

The issue here is about format.

In sims like Assetto Corsa Competizione, you play out races in a more sim way - you do a test session to learn the track, you do one or two qualifying sessions to set your position on the grid and then you do a race. Often this results in a race taking an hour. The cars also have tuning but within the limits of Group 3 regulations - you can't make your car excessively more powerful than any other car on the grid.

GT7 doesn't have that. The cars in GT games have realistic attributes, but they don't have an equal BoP across all cars, after all that would negate the point of having different cars, as if the car you have isn't as powerful as the car in pole position, they'd just leave you eating dust off the start line.

As GT7 has tuning and PP limits, if you tune your car right, the opposite could happen - you could easily walk the race from the second it starts.
PD don't want that, so they make every "race" a chase instead.

I'd suggest a change in that the harder PP and class restricted (GR4, GR3 etc) should have grid starts, while your open class "Sunday Cup" races can remain as chases.

 

[Samus]

I am deeply perplexed.
Isn't the age at which you become aware that there is something fishy going on with AI cars pace in GT, also the age you wanna realize that racing AI cars, in any game, was never meant for someone your age?
And from that age on, all the AI racing you would be doing in a racing game you would exclusively do out of absolute necessity, and you couldn't care less about realistic/unrealistic behaviour by AI.
Which is why the existence of this thread is such an insane paradox.

You should try some other games, they have much better AI that you can have a fair race against. Just because Gran Turismo is lacking and cheating doesn't mean every game is.

well then, these other games must be seriously lacking somewhere else. there's about a million things to do in GT before racing AI cars for fun.

Like what? Racing is the primary focus of a racing game (Clue is in the name), your two broad options are racing against AI and racing against humans.

Racing AI in GT might not be fun, it is in other games.

 

[wakawakawaka]

You should try some other games, they have much better AI that you can have a fair race against. Just because Gran Turismo is lacking and cheating doesn't mean every game is.


Like what? Racing is the primary focus of a racing game (Clue is in the name), your two broad options are racing against AI and racing against humans.

Racing AI in GT might not be fun, it is in other games.

Clearly Polyphony Digital doesn't think that way. The reason the AI races are like that is because they're intended for young players/beginners to get started in the game, before moving on to what PD must consider greater things.
Once you start reaching your potential, the actual way to enjoy GT to the fullest when not competing against other human drivers, is spending hours in time trial mode pushing yourself on the track and your car in the tuning screen, ending up fighting for thousandths of a second, or a few points in drift mode.
Not to mention other parts of the game like photo mode or livery making.
GT was made by perfectionists for perfectionists to obsess over, racing the AI may take a lot of space in the UI and seem like it's the main thing, but it's actually level 1 of 50.

 

[CnPx]

You are not wrong mate. The rubberbanding in this game is almost as bad as Need For Speed. Atleast in NFS its an arcade game so its some what to be expected as much as its annoying asf. I am glad someone has mentioned this cos at 1 point I thought it was just me noticing it get much worse.
I am guessing they are making the game harder on purpose so its harder to achieve credits. It seems everything in this game is like that.

 

[waynedaman]

I feel like the only person here that hasn't noticed rubberbanding.. I think they might? go a little faster when they're near you but not anywhere like NFS lol dont really doubt its there to some extent but it really doesnt seem obvious as some are saying. Like as an example i just did the 30 minutes in the rain at high speed ring on the mission challenges using the toms supra, and i was over 1:20 ahead of second place and started lapping 3rd and 4th place by the end of it like surely they would have been a little more on my ass no? My experience has been closer to the ai giving up on you once youve passed them.

 

[Nuschel01]

as an example i just did the 30 minutes in the rain at high speed ring on the mission challenges using the toms supra

What a terrible example, you used a massively OP race car to beat a bunch of road cars
Never mind, I can't read

 

[Zero2Oblivion]

I feel like the only person here that hasn't noticed rubberbanding..

I think most people may be misunderstanding the situation, and calling something "rubber banding" when it's not.

GT7 doesn't have 1 selectable difficulty setting for all races, as certain races have their own adjusted difficulty settings, along with class and PP restrictions. These races will be challenging.

If we use the Goodwood Mini race as an example. When S.Brown started to dominate from the back people cried foal - how could an AI racer just launch from the back of the pack to passing us before the last corner? I mean, we could tune to dominate, but an AI shouldn't be able to do that, right?! S.Brown obviously had a racing muffler and other work done which would push the Mini out of the PP allowance. But we couldn't see if something had been done to bring the PP back into allowance, so people complained PD were cheating.

What that race actually did though, was teach us that the way most of us approached tuning wasn't always the best way, as weight reduction and better tires kept you in the PP, but you actually needed a high rpm turbo and slightly better tires, and a one-way LSD to meet the PP requirements and win the race.

Some of the other races are intended to be difficult, they'll often have 1-5 chili peppers on the race icon to indicate this. In those races the AI can push the cars just as well, if not better, than we can. It's not rubber banding, it's a challenge (hence the chili pepper ratings). It's AI that can setup a car to meet the requirements in ways that we don't think about, and eek every millisecond out of the car.

 

[waynedaman]

What a terrible example, you used a massively OP race car to beat a bunch of road cars

Not sure how it's a terrible example... considering a group 3 car / racing car / racing tires is MANDATORY for this race..... or are you just being a terrible example of someone making comments without having done it themselves?

 

[Nuschel01]

Ah nvm, I confused it with the Tsukuba race
I still found it a reasonably easy race to do, I spun like three times and still won by a minute or so

 

[mercgoat]

I feel like the only person here that hasn't noticed rubberbanding.. I think they might? go a little faster when they're near you but not anywhere like NFS lol dont really doubt its there to some extent but it really doesnt seem obvious as some are saying. Like as an example i just did the 30 minutes in the rain at high speed ring on the mission challenges using the toms supra, and i was over 1:20 ahead of second place and started lapping 3rd and 4th place by the end of it like surely they would have been a little more on my ass no? My experience has been closer to the ai giving up on you once youve passed them.

Rubberband only seems heavy on chili races. 30 min Tsukuba or Hsr does not have rubberband.

 

[waynedaman]

i'll start paying attention to those and see if i notice it