What is the big deal about using driving assists?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Biggbaddwolf
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FerrellJ
The only time I've found CSA to help me was with the karts so that's not entirely true.


Okay but you're the one starting a new thread on the topic.:lol:

I think my gripe with the assists isn't so much that people use them- it's that they often don't work the same as they do in real life and the game seems to be balanced around their use.
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The game will likely have a set of assists that are not accessible to the player to compensate for player input (I don't know the code so I can't say for sure). Think of it like a fly by wire throttle versus an old cable throttle. With fly by wire, the ECU blends in your throttle input. The game is doing that. Therefore, there is traction control behind the scenes to an extent in addition to the TCS adjustment on the front end.

Personally, I don't care if people use them or not. The aids slow me down for the most part so i don't use them. If I find them make me go faster, then I will use them.
 
JacksHerer
I don't care what assists people use until I'm 'stuck' behind one or bashed into by one.

It would be nice if the game weened people off them once their DR/SR ratings reached Mid B, and didn't allow S drivers any AIDS except Maybe ABS.
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I personally think this is a great idea. I don't believe you can truly be a DR-S or A if you need aids. Certainly if you use the CSA or ABS.
The higher up DR you go the more the aids should be restricted.
 
Real GT3 cars have electronics, and the drivers in those series use them.

Saying "you're not a real, driver" with them, or criticizing those who do is nothing but snobbery.

That's like saying "I prefer to bang my head against the wall without a foam pad between the two, because it makes me more manly".

The bigger question is, with the modern GT3 cars in this game, why are you getting faster times without the integrated electronics? That's just a bad physics model. For comparison, in MotoGP, when TC was introduced and allowed, lap times dropped considerably and speeds increased because it was easier to control the motorcycle.

The converse should not be happening.
 
The problem with the Internet is missing jokes, if you don't get the joke, you don't see it.

But on the other hand, 'often a true word said in jest' LOL
 
ZnA1209
The bigger question is, with the modern GT3 cars in this game, why are you getting faster times without the integrated electronics? That's just a bad physics model.
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The traction control in Project Cars 2 is actually really well executed, I feel. You barely notice it. Whether that's due to its implementation, the feedback or the tire model I don't know but I don't often feel the need to bother turning TC off in that game.
 
You know, I was completely unaware that I had CSA set to weak (instead of off). Guess this must be the default setting, at least for those of us using the DS4.

Edited because I mixed up ASM and CSA.
 
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Hey Guys now this thread is really splitting the opinions. So I just want to add my thoughts and I believe I have some good points. And hopefully we can discuss them objectively.

First of all I want to say that I personally don’t use any driving aids except of ABS. Never. On any Car. That’s the first step to become a fast and decent driver imo. While doing so, I actually understand what my Car is doing and it’s up to my skill level to react to it. I don’t want to rely on any aids and don’t want them to iron out my mistakes, otherwise I don’t learn nothing.

Having said that, I think that using driving aids is nothing wrong. Some people just have the skills naturally to drive without them others have the ambition to build up their driving skills but it’s a long process and it takes lots of practice. Yet one thing is clear. We won’t be all equally skilled and fast. And therefore People who don’t want to put that much effort into it or just simply don’t have the time should use them as they will make them more competitive.

And it’s absolutely clear that someone who is driving without aids and able to hit the Leaderboard is definitely a superb driver. No doubt. Or maybe not? Is he really so skilled or is he also using some other kind of aids? For example the Wheel Rotation Angle.

There‘s definitely no two opinions that lowering the steering angle is giving you a huge advantage when it comes to cornering. It’s much easier to take a corner with less need of rotation and therefore faster. And what about reacting to a slide, it’s also much easier to catch a slide.

So this is also a driving aid imo.

Then we may not forget that we don’t drive with the same equipment. You can’t actually compare driving skills if we don’t drive with equal equipment.

I for example drive with a T150 2 Pedal Set. A good friend of mine is using a Fanatec Wheel with some loadcell brake Pedals. He has the steering angle set to 540 degrees, and has his FFB torque so low that you almost don’t feel anything.
Yesterday I drove about 1 hour with the Fanatec Set and was able to shave off more than 1 second from my best times compared to my T150 Set.

It’s just much easier to be fast with a rotation of 540 degrees super low FFB Torque and this fancy loadcell brake.

So talking about skill is very relative. I got my Wheel 2 Months ago and transitioning from Controller was not hard for me. I‘m still not there where I want to be but considering that others are playing with a Wheel since years I think i‘m doing pretty decent.

I would even go so far and say that someone who is driving with lower quality equipment and not lowering Rotation Angle, lowering FFB and using worse pedals, or even on Ds4 Controller without using aids, is a more skilled driver compared to the ones that lower the steering angle and use better pedals. Again this is my opinion from my personal experience.
So I would say that anyone should use any aid possible to be competitive but if you really want to talk about skills, you have to use the same equipment with the same settings. Anything else is comparing apples with pears.
 
Biggbaddwolf
If you don't want to use them then don't use them!! I would think those that don't use them would be happy about others using them because they supposedly slow you down, but everyone pitches a fit if they are allowed!!
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I wanted to reply "to get you slower" but seems you already replied yourself :)

...also there is other thing, you are safer not to spin. Especially in Sport races where you have tons of "clean" drivers...
 
I just wish someone at PD would go out and drive a real manual h pattern car and realise how a clutch actualy works
 
In previous versions of the game we learned that you have to turn all traction control and stability management off in dirt/snow rallies as otherwise the stupid ECU won't ever give you power.

WRT tarmac, I leave ABS 1 and usually TC 1 ( just to keep from spinning in straightline acceleration) although some ridiculously overpowered beasts do require TC 2. I'm still on two joysticks although this may be the year I break down for a seat/wheel/pedals.

Oh and WRT GT vs real world: I turn off (really "down") the VDC on my 370z whenever the roads are dry. In both contexts the TC overdoes it on default settings and interferes with fast stable driving.
 
Me personally, I can't use em.. I'm actually A LOT slower with them on than off. When CSA is on, I feel myself fighting it at times and thus overcorrecting as I'm used to correcting my own oversteering. I haven't driven with ASM on and with TC, it depends.. Very seldomly do I turn it on though cause I feel I lose too much corner exit speed. To each is own though. If one feels comfortable driving with aids on then more power to them! It should make for some interesting races! But for me personally, my play style and the fact that I carefully watch my inputs on a DS4 make it so any aids I have on (Except ABS) make it harder for me to drive.
 
I sometimes turn TC on at the start of the race... when it goes '3..2..1..go' and im in the middle of a chicane it helps me to floor it and get a good launch... i dial it off straight afterwards :-)
 
FerrellJ
The traction control in Project Cars 2 is actually really well executed, I feel. You barely notice it. Whether that's due to its implementation, the feedback or the tire model I don't know but I don't often feel the need to bother turning TC off in that game.
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I agree, I also like that in the assists settings you can set it so that cars that have assists, use them and cars that didn't, don't.
 
kjeldsen
When I see the replay after a race I simply rank the players after aids enabled. Anyone in front of me with more aids enabled got there with a clear advantage I didn't have. Anyone with less aids and behind me should think the same about me.

So in other words, less aids more respect for the driving skills displayed.

Those without any aids enabled are imho the real superstars, it requires so much more concentration and skill to do 10 laps without mistakes.

But lucky for us it's 100% up to each player to define what they find fair. And I would rather have more players having fun no matter how many aids they need than a bunch of frustrated players that hardly can keep the car on the track
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Wow. The condescension in this reply is palpable. I hope I neve get matched in a race with you.
 
I use TCS 0 for 4WD cars and TCS 1 for other cars which easily spin (Gr3 cars).

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I am still questioning why CSA considered cheating.

CSA were intended to simulate counterstreering for DS4 users like you were countersteer using a steering wheel. It has no relation if the CSA user were noob or pro DS4 driver. Pro drivers does not to be penalised if they were using CSA. No need for handicapping the pro drivers to the noob drivers. Because that would be simply unfair. Let the players use CSA at their own discretion.

I am not sure if CSA setting affecting the wheel users, since wheels already has 1:1 input ratio.
 
Shottah072
The game adjusts your wheel to 540 when your driving a car that has 540 in RL.
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Ah ok i haven‘t noticed that and I have driven lots of Cars until now. How do you notice it? For example Gt3 Cars as far as I know should have 540 by default as it is in real life, but it’s not in Game. Road Cars and older Sports Cars should be 900 by default, but to me it feels like it’s always 1080 on any Car. I tried to adjust it manually to 540 on a Gt3 Car and immediately noticed the difference. But maybe i‘m wrong and it’s just imagination.
 
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Any aid that isn't a "real" aid should be removed imo. I'm cool with TC and ABS, although I don't use TC. DS4 user.
 
GTWelsh
Any aid that isn't a "real" aid should be removed imo. I'm cool with TC and ABS, although I don't use TC. DS4 user.
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I agree but in the way that every one is free to chose his best own torture (i.e. nordschleife in less than 7 minutes driving a shelby cobra with hard confort tires and without driving aids) let the not skilled (for various , in some case legit, reasons) to play with them..

I'm, too, a DS4 user but for some "phisical" issue to my left hand i can't use the triggers..
 
Most racing cars nowadays have some assists, legally allowed or by "smart mapping" of engine management and brake distribution.

So, I guess is perfectly acceptable, I guess.

Except CSA, it's something made up by PD that has no real world equivalent, as it's physically impossible to work some kind of system to compensate that don't makes you lose speed.

So, don't like CSA was included in the game, opposite to other assists in the game.
 
Biggbaddwolf
If you don't want to use them then don't use them!! I would think those that don't use them would be happy about others using them because they supposedly slow you down, but everyone pitches a fit if they are allowed!!
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Multiple gr4 races yesterday the top 10 used some sort of assist, the top 5 all used at least csm and asm.. one guy in top 3 had all assists on and I suspect these folks use driving line as well. Its gr4 ffs! Really? The assists can actually help less than stellar drivers be faster than they normally would in a race as opposed to quali. In a race were optimal line is not always present you are able to bully your way around the track, man handle the car , go off road , and on 2 story curbs with little to no I'll effect. All it takes is one love tap to send me into an unrecoverable slide. People have a right to be upset.
 

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