What shouldn't be in GT4.

[Blackfish]

The Trueno is in this game because it's an awesome/classic car. My friend owns one. Even in today's market, they handle extremely well, and are up to speed with modern Corollas/Civics/Eclipses (except the turbos) and all the other "sport compact" cars. A very fun car to drive.

A point I disagree with whole heartedly, purely on asthetics, but I do understand. In the US, cars like the Trueno are driven into the ground by illegal aliens and people with no fixed address.

Honestly, I have no actual problem with GT4 having all the Vitz's, Civics and Corolla's you want. What bothers me is the implication that I suffer from some mental disorder because I prefer Monte Carlo SS's and Intrepid R/T's and want to see a few of them in GT4 as well.

For a number of people NOT from small contries where gas costs $56.95 a gallon (or litre if you like), these small cars are simply pathetic. In the US, a Civic is for an unemployed college kid or a wanna-be Street Racer with too much time on his hands, too little taste and too many copies of the "Fast and the Furious". Corolla's are even worse....they are for accountants that can best be described as "thrifty".

Maybe this difference is just cultural, and I can respect that. Seems others here can't, otherwise MY choice of desiring the new Chrysler 300E or Dodge Charger Concept or Intrepid R/T wouldn't be so deeply and angrily criticized.

In any case, it is fun to poke at those who despise me for my opinions. As I said, some people take their little video games a wee bit too seriously....

-Blackfish

 

[Gil]

Originally posted by Syizm

As for the Vitz - beats me. I know Tommy Kaira makes a spin-off of the Vitz. They're decently fast and handle pretty well in real life, though, from what I've read.

Steve-o

Umm,
The Tommy Kaira you mentioned is based on the Nissan March, not the Toyota Vitz.
Most of the TK's from GT2 were Skylines with an attittude. To the best of my knowledge most of the TK's are Nissan based or powered.
The ZZ-s is powered by the venerable SR-20.


I would really like to see some decent "race worthy" cars in GT4.
But for the record, pretty much everything with wheels is raced in some venue.
Yes, we want PD to stay "true" to the GT genre.
While I like my American cars, I can't think of too many that I want to race. The ones in GT-2 weren't done justice. The ones in GT-3 are at least competitive with their Japanese counterparts.
They do it with turbos. We do it with displacement.
I would like to see some of the 'concept' cars like the Dodge, and the new GT-40.
But if they want to bring back early American Performance, can we get a Pantera? or maybe the 289 FIA Cobra? Or Maybe even a Mangusta.
I just know that I'm good and ready for the game to be released.

 

[askia47]

Originally posted by Blackfish
A point I disagree with whole heartedly, purely on asthetics, but I do understand. In the US, cars like the Trueno are driven into the ground by illegal aliens and people with no fixed address.

Honestly, I have no actual problem with GT4 having all the Vitz's, Civics and Corolla's you want. What bothers me is the implication that I suffer from some mental disorder because I prefer Monte Carlo SS's and Intrepid R/T's and want to see a few of them in GT4 as well.

For a number of people NOT from small contries where gas costs $56.95 a gallon (or litre if you like), these small cars are simply pathetic. In the US, a Civic is for an unemployed college kid or a wanna-be Street Racer with too much time on his hands, too little taste and too many copies of the "Fast and the Furious". Corolla's are even worse....they are for accountants that can best be described as "thrifty".

Maybe this difference is just cultural, and I can respect that. Seems others here can't, otherwise MY choice of desiring the new Chrysler 300E or Dodge Charger Concept or Intrepid R/T wouldn't be so deeply and angrily criticized.

In any case, it is fun to poke at those who despise me for my opinions. As I said, some people take their little video games a wee bit too seriously....

-Blackfish

Get help man, dont hate any car unless its VERY bad and Japanese cars are not bad at all, get your facts straight.....christ you guys are such ignorant and persistent newbies!

Also most of the cars in GT4 wil be Japanese....deal with it.

 

[Injected8706]

Originally posted by askia47
Unfortunately he is right to an extent, Japanese and European cars DO have better quality than American cars.

Out of the top ten car companies with the best quality 9 of them are imports. Only Lincoln is in the one in the 10 that have OK quality...and their number 10.

Would you mind posting a link to this list???

 

[Jay]

so much reading!!

so boring

 

[booyah]

Originally posted by Blackfish
A point I disagree with whole heartedly, purely on asthetics, but I do understand. In the US, cars like the Trueno are driven into the ground by illegal aliens and people with no fixed address.

Honestly, I have no actual problem with GT4 having all the Vitz's, Civics and Corolla's you want. What bothers me is the implication that I suffer from some mental disorder because I prefer Monte Carlo SS's and Intrepid R/T's and want to see a few of them in GT4 as well.

For a number of people NOT from small contries where gas costs $56.95 a gallon (or litre if you like), these small cars are simply pathetic. In the US, a Civic is for an unemployed college kid or a wanna-be Street Racer with too much time on his hands, too little taste and too many copies of the "Fast and the Furious". Corolla's are even worse....they are for accountants that can best be described as "thrifty".

Maybe this difference is just cultural, and I can respect that. Seems others here can't, otherwise MY choice of desiring the new Chrysler 300E or Dodge Charger Concept or Intrepid R/T wouldn't be so deeply and angrily criticized.

In any case, it is fun to poke at those who despise me for my opinions. As I said, some people take their little video games a wee bit too seriously....

-Blackfish

chill out man. there's a whole bunch of classic muscle cars and other american cars in gt4 now so relax. A Civic is fuel-efficient, light, and fast with a B16A, B18C5, or H22A engine swap. If you don't know jack about Civics, don't go dissing them. and we heard u like a million times already that you want those american cars. so quit bashing imports. we're sorry we're not as rich as you spending $60 on a tank of gas once a week.

 

[Blackfish]

If you don't know jack about Civics, don't go dissing them.

we're sorry we're not as rich as you spending $60 on a tank of gas once a week.

So why is it that people keep telling me to chill out, no one hates American cars, and oh yea, boy am I ignorant, and then turn right around and make a dumbass statement based on bias and negative opinion???

Last I checked (and I have, since I own one of the cars in question) it costs just under $20 a week to drive a Taurus/Intrepid/Monte Carlo, with an average of a few hundred miles a week of home to work and round town driving. Where you got $60, I don't know. On the other hand, my GF, who drove a Turcel and then a Corrola over the last six years, averaged about $16 a week in gas.

So, $4.00 a week difference. Damn thats a huge margin. I see now that my gas guzzling ways are ruining the world. So what if my Taurus is twice as fast, twice as quick, turns as well as, twice as roomy and twice as cool as either the Turcel or Corrolla. That $4.00 a week is KILLING THE PLANET AND THE WORLD ECONOMY!!!

No worries kiddies. I am finished mocking your wonderful and clearly superior Japanese cars. You all clearly cannot handle it, so I will depart and post no more.

And to pre-empt any more flames sent in my general direction, I offer the following....

---Damn dude, Japanese cars ROK, you a stoopid American.

---You know nothing...NOTHING AT ALL SO JUST DIE!!

---Gas guzzling tank-like American cars suck. They should be banned and only Asian cars should RULEZ the world!!

---Go away, you don't know REAL racing cause u be foolish just like BUSH.

---Chill out, GT4 will rock, even for people like you who DON'T KNOW ANYTHING!!!!

---By the way, Blackfish, you spelled "the" wrong, so every one of your arguments is null and void. Dumba$$.

There, I think that covers it. G'Night all and fare the well.....

--Blackfish

 

[Injected8706]

^ ^

 

[Syizm]

Originally posted by Blackfish
A point I disagree with whole heartedly, purely on asthetics, but I do understand. In the US, cars like the Trueno are driven into the ground by illegal aliens and people with no fixed address.

In the US, a Civic is for an unemployed college kid or a wanna-be Street Racer with too much time on his hands, too little taste and too many copies of the "Fast and the Furious". Corolla's are even worse....they are for accountants that can best be described as "thrifty".

Maybe this difference is just cultural, and I can respect that. Seems others here can't, otherwise MY choice of desiring the new Chrysler 300E or Dodge Charger Concept or Intrepid R/T wouldn't be so deeply and angrily criticized.

In any case, it is fun to poke at those who despise me for my opinions. As I said, some people take their little video games a wee bit too seriously....

-Blackfish

First of all - I am a real racer, I frequently Auto-X my car in ES class, though I'll be switching classes shortly because I'm getting struts, cams and I've relocated my AFM, all of which deemed illegal by the SCCA in ES class. I often came in FIRST PLACE in ES, a class in which my car, the Toyota MR2, dominates. I have also been part of a pitcrew several times - lately part of TF Racing, who races in the ITA class at REAL-AMERICAN-ROAD-COURSES. I was a pit member last year on 10/18, I will be July 5th and August 8th of this year. I do ACTUALLY know what I'm talking about - I play this game as a hobby. I don't play it often. I've had it since it first came out, and am only around 90% complete.

Second - the Corolla is an economy car MADE for people that pay high prices for gas. For the displacement, the car is pretty quick. On the other hand, the COROLLA GT-S, also known as the AE86, Sprinter, Trueno, or Levin, is a very potent car for both the displacement and the money you pay to get it. The Corolla GT-S uses a 4AGE motor, originally designed by Suzuki and matured into race material by Toyota. The 4AGE motor is a 97 cubic inch inline 4, DOHC (which means it has 16 valves), and has a redline of 7,500 RPMS. This motor was first used in 1981. Back then it ran a 16.1 on the 1/4 absolutely stock. This was a 4-cylindar in 1981, that with a few bolt on modifications, could run a 15. I know of a guy who had an AE86 that was RUNNING A 13 SECOND 1/4 MILE in the 80s. Check out www.racingstrong.com if you doubt me. The Corolla GT-S has wishbone suspension in the front, and a solid rear axle in the back. It is also pretty light, but very safe to crash in, and frequently lasts over 200,000 miles. It is also potent on the track because it handles well when setup, and drifts like a dream when in stock form, this due in part to the solid-rear axle. In today's market, and I give you this, the Corolla GT-S isn't much. They stopped importing them to the states in 88 (at least the nice, sport, RWD ones), so I wouldn't expect someone like you to know what exactly your making fun of. However, back in the 80s, the Corolla GT-S/AE86 was a very potent combination on the track, for the beefy, nearly unbreakable engine and it's nasty personality. The numbers and performance aren't impressive by today's standards, but the car can still amaze you, because it's quick and effortless throttle response, die-hard handling, and the unbreakable engine. It has, since it's debut here in America, attracted a VERY large fan base of very serious racers and enthusiasts. When you insult this car and call it "astheticly unpleasing" (check your spelling, there's an E after the A), you insult yourself, for that is the VERY reason people like this car - it doesn't make impressive numbers. If you have ever driven or rode in one, you would know why they have such a larger fan base both in America, Europe and in Japan. I have done both.

In the US, the majority of Civic owners enjoy thier car for the following reasons - the following reasons are also why it is, for the money, one of the better cars ever made: It's price, it's fuel economy, it's storage capacity, it's seating room, head room, footroom, the number of features you get for the options, the number of types and models of Civic made, the interchangability of parts, the cheap cost to repair and the reliability. I don't know about you, but I see alot more Civics on the road than alot of other cars, including your beloved American cars. I also see alot of 80s Civics and Accords more so than 80's American cars - most likely because the only American cars from the 80's still running are meticulously looked after, or have Japanese Engines. I do agree with you on the point about the kids who drive Civics and think they are race cars. They are not (but they can be made into them, but not with exhaust, rims and a bodykit) and never will be.

No the difference is NOT cultural, and I'm sure many Americans will agree with me. It's you're view - you seem unwilling to open your eyes to imported products and cars - and you my friend are the reason Acura, Lexus and Infiniti we're invented - pig headed Americans rejecting otherwise VERY solid cars because they're unwilling to accept stuff from another country. Also - you're car choices are not bad, but the cars you mention are not sports car. (And save saying the AE86 isn't one either, because it was marketed as a sports-coupe.). I don't critize your taste, but I do disagree with the things you say and the way you act. Corolla's are not for immigrants - they're for people who just need a car to get from A to B - and some the Corolla's are very nice, solid cars.

I don't despise you for your opinions, I despise you for what you say and the way you act, speaking without foreknowledge and making an idiot of yourself. I respect your choices and thoughts, but you make a fool of yourself with your actions and words. I do not take this Video Game seriously. Everything I just presented was real - not part of GT3 - it was fact. Wether or not you accept responsibility for your otherwise immature and anti-foreign actions/beliefs is and can not be anyones choices but your own. You got yourself in this hole by presenting wrong facts and speaking without overall knowledge of the subject - now get over it.

 

[Syizm]

 

[Cobraboy]

Originally posted by Syizm
And here is why:
-Nitrous Oxide: Not only is this a cheap alternative to real horsepower (sure it produces HP and alot of torque, but it's not permanent, besides it's bad on engines.), but it's not involved in any kind of racing. GT, SCCA, COMMA, IHRA and NHRA do NOT allow the use of nitrous, though I'm not 100% sure on the HRA leagues. As a replacement for cheap HP, that IS permanent, they do allow for forced induction (Turbo and blowers.), which is prevalent in the Gran Turismo series. Don't count on ever seeing Nitrous in any of the GT games, unless some real racing series start to support it.

NHRA dragsters run on Nitro Methane, a similar liquid to Nitrous Oxide. So its sort of related.

Originally posted by Blackfish
---Damn dude, Japanese cars ROK, you a stoopid American.

---You know nothing...NOTHING AT ALL SO JUST DIE!!

---Gas guzzling tank-like American cars suck. They should be banned and only Asian cars should RULEZ the world!!

---Go away, you don't know REAL racing cause u be foolish just like BUSH.

---Chill out, GT4 will rock, even for people like you who DON'T KNOW ANYTHING!!!!

---By the way, Blackfish, you spelled "the" wrong, so every one of your arguments is null and void. Dumba$$.

Yeah, I'll agreee with all of the above.

 

[Syizm]

Originally posted by Blackfish
Last I checked (and I have, since I own one of the cars in question) it costs just under $20 a week to drive a Taurus/Intrepid/Monte Carlo, with an average of a few hundred miles a week of home to work and round town driving. Where you got $60, I don't know. On the other hand, my GF, who drove a Turcel and then a Corrola over the last six years, averaged about $16 a week in gas.

-Most Taurus' use Japanese engines designed by Mazda.

-Gotta give it to you, the Intrepid is a nice car and I wouldn't mind owning one to drive around from point A to B. They come standard with V6's: A 2.7 which averages 20-28 MPG, but when paired with the car is VERY slow; and a 3.5 which gets 18/26 MPG - decent and thrilling when you step on the accelerator.

-The Monte Carlo isn't very fuel efficient, both the 3.4 and the 3.8 get horrible stop and go milage - around 20. The highway MPG is good though, around 30 for both.

Also, might as well mention MPG is a thing of the past and not a point to argue. The Corvette C5 gets 19 MPG in the city and 28 on the freeway.

So sure - the cars are nice. But they're not known for reliability, like Honda's and Toyota's. So when your car starts breaking down, I'll be using my extra $24 a month on gas to enjoy myself, while your still spending more money on gas, and on fixing your car.

Even Japanese sports cars, like the NSX, frequently squeeze out 200,000 miles if taken care of. I havn't yet heard of a C5 clearing 80,000 miles HEALTHY.

Steve-o

 

[Injected8706]

I'm not taking anything away from the Japanese cars, most of them are good cars IMO, but some of the American cars, and UK cars for that matter, deserve to be in the game just as much as most of the Japanese cars. I would rather have a wide variety of American, UK, and Japanese cars instead of a huge variety of Japanese cars and a very small variety of UK and American cars.

 

[GT]

i think anyone dislikes the american or japanese or brithis cars doesn't really know the history of these cars, without each other the sportscar range of all these different manufacturers wouldn't be what they are now, they have pushed each other with development and the result is what you drive around with in the GT games, so please don't talk about things you really haven't thought about

 

[Blackfish]

First of all - I am a real racer

OK. As I admitted (now for the 30th time) I know nothing of racing, nor do I intend to learn. GT3 is a fun game to play. My opinion are solely based on my personal experiences in knowing owners of many car types, seeing who drives what here in my portion of the U.S. and my own personal bias. I never hid any of these facts.

Real life racing (as a spectator) is so boring it's like watching flys ****. Sorry, personal tastes. I loved Baseball when I played (20 years worth) but I find it incredibly boring to watch. However, it is very cool that you are a racer/pit crewmember. I am glad it makes you happy.

Second - the Corolla is an................They stopped importing them to the states in 88 (at least the nice, sport, RWD ones), so I wouldn't expect someone like you to know what exactly your making fun of................If you have ever driven or rode in one, you would know why they have such a larger fan base both in America, Europe and in Japan. I have done both.

Ok, where to start here. I am more than old enough to remember 1988, and these cars have lasted a number of years beyond that (to their credit). However, my opinion stands that they are some of the ugliest cars in the world. How I "insult myself" by not liking a cars visuals, I don't know. I suppose that means if I don't agree with others I am a fool. Ok. I'm a fool. No argument there.

Oh, and I have ridden in one before. Didn't find it terribly exciting.

I don't know about you, but I see a lot more Civics on the road than a lot of other cars, including your beloved American cars.

Not here in Washington D.C. you don't.

Also - you're car choices are not bad, but the cars you mention are not sports car.

Well, the marketing I see here in D.C. has the Intrepid R/T (SXT now in 2003 DOH!) and the Monte being advertised as sports sedans. I've seen the Taurus advertised the same way before too, although I never saw it that way.

Corolla's are not for immigrants -

Again, not here in D.C. While I certainly understand your anger if you felt I was being racist, I wasn't. I am simply responding based on my personal observations. In D.C., the vast majority of older (Trueno look-alike) Toyotas, Honda's and other Japanese cars are driven by those of Spanish/Mexican/Central American decent. I didn't make it happen. I just see it happen. While it shows something that these cars are still around (you don't see any 1989 Ford Escorts anymore), the fact of who drives them is what it is. These cars are available at very low prices (good for those just arriving here) and run almost forever, also good. So I don't see the problem.

Civics however are driven here almost exclusively by high school wanna-be's who put HUGE exhaust pipes and Spoilers on them and paint them in Fast & Furious schemes. Again, just an observation.

It's you're view - you seem unwilling to open your eyes to imported products and cars - and you my friend are the reason Acura, Lexus and Infiniti we're invented - pig headed Americans rejecting otherwise VERY solid cars because they're unwilling to accept stuff from another country.

Uh, No. I am not an American actually. While I have lived here for some time, I am a citizen of the United Kingdom. And as I said, my GF is a Toyota devotee. If I hated Japanese cars so much, wouldn't I demand that she drive American?? I don't.....

Oh, and any American with half a brain knows that Lexus, Acura and Infiniti are not truly American cars. However the social climbers here in D.C. just can't drive a Toyota, the have to have a Lexus cause it makes them look cooler. Yuppie schmucks.

I don't despise you for your opinions, I despise you for what you say and the way you act, speaking without foreknowledge and making an idiot of yourself.

Well you prove many of my points with this line. You despise me because I disagree with you (based on my personal observations and experience) about cars from a video game and in the real world. OK, no problem. I am aware that my opinion is not popular, especially someplace like here, where Japanese cars are adored. But to despise someone for that shows how much anger and bias there is against Americans (which you all though I was).

otherwise immature and anti-foreign actions/beliefs

Immature and Anti-Foreign to present an opinion on a car's looks and usual driver in my area based on observation, experience and (for looks) personal taste? Ok, if you say so.

yourself in this hole

What hole? THIS IS A CHATBOARD FOR GOD'S SAKE. Other than the enjoyment I get from seeing how angry you all have gotten over my (initial) desire for more American cars in GT4, there is absolutely nothing important about any of your opinions of me or of my feelings on cars.

I keep ending my posts hoping to let things go (since it is rather silly for this to go on, I'm not changing my opinion and clearly neither are any of you). But no, people keep coming back and slamming me (worthwhile to them I'm sure). I find all this rather funny, honestly.

Oh, by the way, since you find spelling so important, I found the following errors in your post.

Thier (should have been their)
alot (should have been a lot, two words)
bodykit (should be either Body-kit or body kit)
critize (should be criticize)
Wether (should be Whether)
anyones (should be anyone's)


Sorry to point out such simplistic and easy to correct errors, but since you felt it important to point out my error, I felt it was only right to do the same for you. No need to thank me.


Since discussing cars with you all has grown rather tiring I will end with this:

Cars from Japan are just fine. They are reliable, sporty (when designed to be) and some look damn good (I personally like the 3000GT, 350Z and 300ZX myself) . However, to my eyes, some are just plain ugly (Lancer, Miata, Trueno). However, just because I like American (and UK) cars, doesn't mean that these are all good. The PT Cruiser is disgusting and the Viper is not very nice (to me) either.

My only desire is to see some of the more sporty American full size "sports-sedans" in GT4. Since it isn't up to anyone on this forum if this will happen or not, I don't see any reason to continue.



Please, try to have a nice day....seriously.

 

[askia47]

ok that sets things straight, finally.

 

[Syizm]

Blackfish,

I'm not going to argue. I just enjoy the Corolla GT-S. I do, however, agree with you, that it's a VERY ugly car. But it's funny to see one that's souped up (4AGZE swap with a CUSCO pulley), running 13 second 1/4 miles, beating the T-Body (firebird, camaro, trans-am) crowd out at the drags.

I was only saying I was a real racer to seperate myself, somewhat, from the other people here who seem to speak from just playing the game.

I get the point that you live in a DC. You should move to Canada. . Seriously, DC is one of the worst places in America to live, unfortunately. At least there's probably stuff todo there (unlike Oklahoma City).

-No Anger, no feelings toward you.
-Said I disliked you because of your actions, though you are acting more mature than most around here in an... odd way.
-Most my "spelling errors" were typos. I type fast.


According to an old EGM article:
Why there's ALOT of Japanese cars on GT3, is because the game was in development before the release of the actual PS2 console. Because of complications, they weren't able to complete the game the way they wanted to before the release date. In the process, the developed most of the Japanese cars first, and a few others. When the design team realized they weren't going to have time to include everything they wanted in the game, they went ahead and added some of the better cars from other countries into the game, and left some otherwise crappy cars in other areas (PT Cruiser, Coupe Turbo).

The article ends there, but I assume after the release, PD started making GT4 immediately. Since they had so much more knowledge, a game engine to build on, and LOTS more time, they are including most of the cars they wanted to in GT3, including ALOT more American cars. This explains the absence of diversity present in GT3: They didn't have enough time - why else would you make the sequel to GT2 worse in a few ways (granted the graphics and motion engines were MUCH better.). Now that they have the time, they are including ALOT more.. . . . . or something.

Steve-o

 

[Dirkiyo]

I don't want to have too choose out of more than 100 versions of the same type, like the NISSAN SKYLINE, when when i want that kind of car. It's ok when the put in 2 or 3 types, but NO MORE!!!
I like more variety when selecting a car.



--------------------------------
I was there at the 9th of june 2003, THE RALLYSPRINT EVENT IN ROTTERDAM, THE NETHERLANDS!!!

 

[Mr Devil]

No black*****

ooo sry... fish

No hatred agaisnt tha us... Just agaisnt assholes like you and bush who think evryone whats them away and tha think that evryone hates them cuz they have "Freedom"

By the way i still like tha viper and tha corvette but the rest just isnt f u c k ing worth it... and even less race worthy than other cars...

stop trying to creat a forum war
Dont u have enof of tha second gulf war???

idiot

 

[Mr Devil]

/´¯/)
,/¯ /
/ /
/´¯/' '/´¯¯·¸
/'/ / / /¨¨/¯\
('( ´ ´ ¯&;/' ')
\ ' /
'\' \ _.·´
\ (
\


hehehe

 

[Mr Devil]

/´¯/)
,/¯ /
/ /
/´¯/' '/´¯¯·¸
/'/ / / /¨¨/¯\
('( ´ ´ ¯&;/' ')
\ ' /
'\' \ _.·´
\ (
\

 

[Mr Devil]

by tha way

thx 4 tha help Syizm

 

[Mr Devil]

n-e-wayz this is becoming stupid (and 100 versions of a same car in a game is abuse) but still...

Im outta here... tommorow im at tha Canadian Grand Prix

so see yuz all

(by tha way im not japanees... i just like japanesse cars cuz they are the best cars out there duh!)

 

[ToyotaGTONE]

I wish I had not spent the last several minutes skimming over this thread. But I did find some pieces of rationalism between the two major people of this thread, Blackfish and Syizm. My personal opinion is a mix of the two. I like mostly European cars because of history and style. I like some Japanese cars (Certain pure racing NSX's and Skyline's), but the majority of them just seem very "plasticy" and generic, no matter how robust and exciting the driving experence. Their image has also been throughly degraded by people going crazy over nitrous, body kits, and stupidly huge rims. It's also annoying because most of these "enthusiasts" don't appreciate real racing, and didn't even realize and aftermarket for automobiles existed before The Fast and the Furious. As for American cars, I don't really like a large number of them except: old Shelby GT 350 and 500, Cobra, Hummer (Not the retarded H2), Saleen S7, Corvette C5-R, and maybe a few I've forgot. Muscle cars are good for a laugh, but I don't consider them that great.

Obviously I like the Toyota GT-ONE because it almost won Le Mans.

 

[Injected8706]

Originally posted by Mr Devil
No black*****

ooo sry... fish

No hatred agaisnt tha us... Just agaisnt assholes like you and bush who think evryone whats them away and tha think that evryone hates them cuz they have "Freedom"

By the way i still like tha viper and tha corvette but the rest just isnt f u c k ing worth it... and even less race worthy than other cars...

stop trying to creat a forum war
Dont u have enof of tha second gulf war???

idiot

Did you even read his post???

Originally posted by Blackfish
I keep ending my posts hoping to let things go

Next time read before you post.
And you didn't need to post 5 different times.

 

[Blackfish]

YOUR AD HERE

 

[GT]

this thread is an example of how things can get out of hand

 

[Injected8706]

The only thing that is out of hand in this thread is Mr Devil. The thread had a good debate going on, then Mr Devil comes in and makes immature and arrogant comments about things he obviously didn't read, and then insults Blackfish, America, and American cars.

Mr Devil-
I don't care what you say, if you have something against President Bush then you have something against America because he is the leader that we elected.

 

[Z E V]

If this forum devolves into politic then I am going to stop going to this site. Someone shut down this thread, or lock it or something...

 

[Solid Fro]

Originally posted by Z E V
If this forum devolves into politic then I am going to stop going to this site. Someone shut down this thread, or lock it or something...

I advise you not to go into the Opinion forum.