What would a good economy look like?

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I’d like to see any online event pay the same rate as career events, which all should be at least tripled from where they were with 1.06. IIRC racing online was a great way to get credits and it made sense since online was new.

However the custom races should also pay this same rate so we can rubberband our way to credits overnight. Continue to have the cars reflect real world values, I think that has merit we just need an easy way make money. Also present in GT5 & 6.

Yes it could be called cheating, but I did it in nearly every other GT game to date. And you know what? It was FUN. Let us have fun with the only exploit that is fair; bypassing the grind. This way we have more time to sharpen our skills, play online, or tackle career mode. AKA have fun again, after all it is a video game.

Sorry PD, you can’t have it both ways by saying you don’t want us to grind, shackle our best ways to get credits and force MTXs for speedy cars only to then say it will be better in the future. Make it better now. Now is the time and if you truly don’t want us to grind the same races over and over, fix it now.


Jerome
 
Has anyone made an approximate calculation on the price of all cars combined?

Curious if GT7 is more expensive than Battlefront 2 with MTX.
 
Shirrako
Has anyone made an approximate calculation on the price of all cars combined?

Curious if GT7 is more expensive than Battlefront 2 with MTX.
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www.gtplanet.net

The credits cost of all 454 cars in Gran Turismo 7 [489 Million total]

Credit to @Famine for the base car list. ---------------------------------- Current Stats (Last Updated December 15th, 2022) All figures are based on the US/Europe credits. Credits in the Japanese version of the game are vastly different. Prices of Used Cars can vary depending on their...
www.gtplanet.net www.gtplanet.net

You can find the total MTX price from here. At $20 per $2M, it's about $2,800, and that's an incomplete number because there's still many cars we haven't seen.
 
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Shirrako
Has anyone made an approximate calculation on the price of all cars combined?

Curious if GT7 is more expensive than Battlefront 2 with MTX.
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My personal napkin math estimate for all cars is 328M credits. Or in other words, 425 hours at Fishermans Nerfed Ranch (optimistically).

Edit: A more refined napkin math estimate puts the number closer to 397M credits, or 515 hours at the ranch. But factoring in the fact that you get a bunch of gift cars (albeit mostly lower value ones), that brings the number for the cars you’d actually have to buy down to maybe ~385M/499hrs/$3848. Roulette spins would also help bring this number down, but those are a bit too luck dependent to factor in, especially without any data on avg win rate.
 
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Dak0ta
my biggest problem with the game is unability to sell cars, thats one aspect from reality that is cool, you get money for a car dont want to use anymore, for a company that invested in "real experiences" they surely are missing the ones that make the players a profit..
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The daft thing is, Haggerty sets the prices based on what someone got when they sold the car. Maybe another 10% buyers premium etc on top. What I hate about that is that cars are treated as investable commodities, they're shrink wrapped, stored in a climate controlled garage, waiting for the price to go up enough to sell it on again.

It's pretentious bollocks to look at that as a 'feature' and it's extremely sly knowing these halo cars are always going to trend upwards.

On the economy, GT5 was barely enough and GT6 was too much. Put it somewhere in the middle of them to make regular gameplay enough to get to the higher priced cars. It's not a lot to ask from a game.

Last but not least, hide the microtransactions somewhere. Preferably in the bin.
 
Grimm6Jack
Yes, I missed a lot of the legendary cars, and I have not tracked any used cars either.

And people all happy that cars got "cheaper" with the Ford Mark IV and the Jaguar XJ3... Yeah, now look at the McLaren F1 at a whooping 18.5 million credits, a car that was 1 million in previous games.

So yeah, this is really based on real life prices, so the overall car cost is actually going to be higher than ever.

Also, if you don't mind, I'm going to "steal" some values of the cars I have missed so far. ;)
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Yes, no problem. Like I say when it's more finished I'll publish it for everyone to use and continue updating themselves.
Jack_10_9_8_7
The idea of Cr. per mile seems fair, but it is also open to abuse through SSRX rubber banding for example
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No, that's why I said per minute is the better way to do it. So that your time is rewarded equally, whether you do 1 lap on SSRX or 4 laps of Tsukuba.

Indeed certain events should pay out better than others, but they should all be grouped into categories that all pay the same. Just like they were in old games. If there are 6 events or championships in the top, most 'elite' group, every single one should pay the exact same per hour.

Like I said it's practically impossible to get it exact because people will enter races with different cars, and they might be better at one track than another, crash in one, but you can certainly do a whole lot better than PD currently manage/choose to do.

So in the example of the best paying, end game events and championships I've said I'd make it 2M credits per hour. Let's say the current Gr.3 championship is made part of that. This is what PD have. I've added rough lap times and completion times in brackets)

Daytona Road Course - 10 laps (1:48 / 18:30)
Suzuka - 5 laps (2:05 / 10:30)
Spa - 5 laps (2:20 / 12:00)
Lago Maggiore - 5 laps (2:00 / 10:00)

(Some have pit stops, hence why it's not always 1 lap time x laps to complete)

They all pay out the same 50,000 per win, despite as you can see, the completion times are quite different. This is where PD are going wrong and forcing people into replaying the same races. Why would you do the Daytona event when the others are way faster for the same credits?

So I'd change it. As I say, I want a base of 2,000,000 per hour. That's 33,333 per minute.

Daytona Road Course (18:30 to complete. 33,333 X 18:30 = 615,000 rounded)
Suzuka (350,000)
Spa (400,000)
Lago Maggiore (330,000)

Now you can do any of those four races and, barring a few seconds here and there, all four would net you 2M credits per hour of racing.

You could of course go the other way, try to make the races last roughly the same amount and then only need small variations in the payouts:

Daytona - 7 laps
Suzuka - 6 laps
Spa - 5 laps
Lago Maggiore - 6 laps

They should all take just about 12 minutes, again give or take a few seconds, so they could all pay 400,000.

Much better either way, right? Honestly though for high paying, end game events I'd probably make the races a little bit longer, closer to 30 minutes each. Maybe even 45, or that could be saved for Gr.2 and Gr.1 events.

I'd rather make it an actual championship as well, with a bonus on top for winning it. But the individual races would still be the same.
 
IMO the biggest sin in this game are the Sport Mode payouts. Expecting something much better out of Championships....

I'd never play singleplayer again if Sport Mode payouts actually gave me something...
 
kilesa4568
The daft thing is, Haggerty sets the prices based on what someone got when they sold the car. Maybe another 10% buyers premium etc on top. What I hate about that is that cars are treated as investable commodities, they're shrink wrapped, stored in a climate controlled garage, waiting for the price to go up enough to sell it on again.

It's pretentious bollocks to look at that as a 'feature' and it's extremely sly knowing these halo cars are always going to trend upwards.

On the economy, GT5 was barely enough and GT6 was too much. Put it somewhere in the middle of them to make regular gameplay enough to get to the higher priced cars. It's not a lot to ask from a game.

Last but not least, hide the microtransactions somewhere. Preferably in the bin.
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yeah, haggery just profits out of imaginery prices, they just needed to adjust the inflaction for old cars and thats it
 
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If i were to take a hold of GT7's economy:

- Cars can retain their expensive status or just be reduced to half their current price.
- Roulette wheels would become more frequent, basically every 26 miles of driving; you get a new prize. Similar to the wheelspin system in Forza Horizon. I say 26 miles as that's sort of the daily excercise length. However, now it's modified to no longer be restricted to once a day. Because the roulette wheels aside from that were only rewards in GT Cafe mode and well; there's not enough of those events right now.
- Roulette wheels would be adjusted to have a better likelihood of a good prize for players as you playthrough the career. You can get up to 6 star like now, but you might get those tickets more often if you've beaten the cafe mode. It especially becomes a factor when your collection level is higher.
- Cars are sellable, but unlike the past GTs; it's for the full value or more. If PD want's to use Hagerty values, then we should benefit from it.
- Credit payouts can be scaled up by the difficulty of A.I. So if you win a race against 2 chili difficulty, it would be 3x the credit payout.
- Given in roulette wheels or won through events you completed, discount cards. They can range from 10-90% for cars or car parts.
- Invitations no longer unlock the car, all cars in brand central are unlocked instead, but now give you temporary discounts.

I had more random ideas, but I forgot what they were. So, I'll leave these here for now.
 
It should absolutely open up with big payments once you get to the upper echelons of events, so you get a payoff for progressing through the game.This is pretty simple game design at it's core, you advance through the game and "level up" rendering a lot of the difficulties experienced on the way up seem superfluous in comparison.


But this economy makes the grind even more of an issue once you've finished the game than when you start it, because you are left with nothing to progress through, and credits are still just as hard to come by as they were in day 1.
 
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GT Sport had this little thing called the mileage exchange , Pd can tie the sale of tickets to miles driven .
50 miles miles for a 2 star ticket
100 miles for a 3 star ticket
200 miles for 4 star ticket
400 miles for 5 star ticket.
600 miles for a six star.
2000 miles for a extreme rare parts spin .

5000 miles for a eve rgreen invitataion , or a x2 24 hour credit multiplier
 
RandomCarGuy17
If i were to take a hold of GT7's economy:

- Cars can retain their expensive status or just be reduced to half their current price.
- Roulette wheels would become more frequent, basically every 26 miles of driving; you get a new prize. Similar to the wheelspin system in Forza Horizon. I say 26 miles as that's sort of the daily excercise length. However, now it's modified to no longer be restricted to once a day. Because the roulette wheels aside from that were only rewards in GT Cafe mode and well; there's not enough of those events right now.
- Roulette wheels would be adjusted to have a better likelihood of a good prize for players as you playthrough the career. You can get up to 6 star like now, but you might get those tickets more often if you've beaten the cafe mode. It especially becomes a factor when your collection level is higher.
- Cars are sellable, but unlike the past GTs; it's for the full value or more. If PD want's to use Hagerty values, then we should benefit from it.
- Credit payouts can be scaled up by the difficulty of A.I. So if you win a race against 2 chili difficulty, it would be 3x the credit payout.
- Given in roulette wheels or won through events you completed, discount cards. They can range from 10-90% for cars or car parts.
- Invitations no longer unlock the car, all cars in brand central are unlocked instead, but now give you temporary discounts.

I had more random ideas, but I forgot what they were. So, I'll leave these here for now.
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Yeah, or just like FM7. But with a touch of GT in the start; "hey boy here`s twenty grand.."
 
PaMu1337
Excuse me?! That's nearly 14 hours per day, every day. And you call that minimum, implying it can get higher. What kind of capitalist nightmare are you in?
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GBO Possum
@Yard_Sale is in the capitalist nightmare called "USA". And believe me, working weeks of >80 hours are quite common here. Somebody has to pay the tax dollars that are avoided by our oligarchs.
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Meh… I wouldn’t call USA a capitalistic nightmare. Depends on your viewpoint I suppose. To me, USA is the land of opportunity where someone like me with minimal education, can carve out a good living with a bit of hard work and perseverance. And I say this being pretty well traveled and seeing what countries that simply lack opportunity look like.

My work schedule is by choice. My actual work week is 72 hours. But I like to work overtime. Financial and life goals don't just happen all by themselves ya' know...



Annnnnnnyyyywaaayyys......

Back to the IG economy. Make it like GT Sport. Offer higher payouts for the championships (complete with bonuses). Higher payouts for the Chile races. Give very good bonuses for having a clean race (no easy feat with the AI in some of these races!!). High payouts for custom races where you put yourself at a disadvantage; same with campaign races where you put yourself at a PP disadvantage. Lots of ways to skin this cat

I'm confident PD will get there
 
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RandomCarGuy17
If i were to take a hold of GT7's economy:

- Cars can retain their expensive status or just be reduced to half their current price.
- Roulette wheels would become more frequent, basically every 26 miles of driving; you get a new prize. Similar to the wheelspin system in Forza Horizon. I say 26 miles as that's sort of the daily excercise length. However, now it's modified to no longer be restricted to once a day. Because the roulette wheels aside from that were only rewards in GT Cafe mode and well; there's not enough of those events right now.
- Roulette wheels would be adjusted to have a better likelihood of a good prize for players as you playthrough the career. You can get up to 6 star like now, but you might get those tickets more often if you've beaten the cafe mode. It especially becomes a factor when your collection level is higher.
- Cars are sellable, but unlike the past GTs; it's for the full value or more. If PD want's to use Hagerty values, then we should benefit from it.
- Credit payouts can be scaled up by the difficulty of A.I. So if you win a race against 2 chili difficulty, it would be 3x the credit payout.
- Given in roulette wheels or won through events you completed, discount cards. They can range from 10-90% for cars or car parts.
- Invitations no longer unlock the car, all cars in brand central are unlocked instead, but now give you temporary discounts.

I had more random ideas, but I forgot what they were. So, I'll leave these here for now.
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I thought of more.

- Events have higher initial payouts, back to pre-1.08 basically.
- Slower car bonus should come back
- I forgot to say when prize cars are won, you can win them again like in GT1-4.
- There could be discount cards you could win in races.
- Higher payouts for custom races and they're scaled based on difficulty and length. Also, they could start out low, but get higher as you progress through the game.

unfairlane
Yeah, or just like FM7. But with a touch of GT in the start; "hey boy here`s twenty grand.."
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Like FM7? You mean where you can pick 1 of 3 rewards per level and get those random cards that give you credit boosts for challenges?
 
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At the moment, I would like the game to add a multiplier for the payout based on the PP.

So, the lower the PP car I enter with, the higher the payout.
This would increase the repayability of events, increase challenge this will be based on ability, and add a little more earnings.
As long as the game kept a record of this in each event, then I would find this quite enjoyable.

I think that for most events in career mode, I only play them once. one of the issues with GT7, is that I think for most people they've done 'everything' and feel as though they've largely finished the game.
 
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Let's see:

  • Ability to sell (rather than scrap for no credits) excess cars/parts for somewhere close to what it costs to buy them
  • Used/"new" cars that aren't pandemic-priced
  • Parts and service that aren't so ****ing expensive ($50 for a wash? $250 and up for an oil change?)
  • More selection in the used lot
  • Ability to win cars multiple times (especially annoying it's not possible in championships, where it's currently a roulette wheel spun only once)
  • Better scaling of races

More on points 2 and 3, taking the 2001 BMW Z8 (which I "lucked" into by clearing the World Touring Car 600 instead of getting the TTS Coupe or R8 4.2), available in both new and used versions, using the US version of the game and US real-world pricing:

  • NADAguides has the original MRSP at $128,000, and the current retail value between $174,800 for a worn-down daily-driver and $298,300 for a very-lightly-driven mint-condition vehicle. Their owner, JDPower, currently has 8 2001 Z8s listed for sale in the US, and the 6 with listed prices are between $168,000 for a 59,350-mile "clean" example and $259,994 for one with 16,757 miles (there's also 2 unpriced sub-10,000 mile unicorns)
  • The BMW store in Brand Central offers the Z8 for $300,000. It went for $166,000 in GT6 and GTS.
  • The used-car dealership (at least my copy) currently is offering a Z8 with 56,680 miles on it for $257,700. Remember, the real-world equivalent, with less than 3,000 more miles, is $82,900 less, and only the 3 unicorns (assuming the 2 unpriced ones are at least $260,000) are more expensive.
  • Let's say you (over)paid for the used copy, and want to start to restore it. The oil change alone is going to set you back $350, when in the real world, to put in synthetic, it's closer to $80. Restoring rigidity is $25,000, and overhauling the engine is another $25,000 (though you're not going to be changing the oil separately, unless the oil-change trick to getting more PP from a new/overhauled engine is back), so to get it approaching new, you're in for $307,700. That's $7,700 you could have spent on upgrading a new Z8.
  • Continuing on the restoration theme, instead of rebuilding the engine and trying to get the warps out of your clapped-out "bargain-bin" used Z8, you want a new engine and a new body. That will run you $150,000 for the engine and $360,000 for the body. Respectively, that's 50% and 120% of a brand-new Z8.
 
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Akwaaba
At the moment, I would like the game to add a multiplier for the payout based on the PP.

So, the lower the PP car I enter with, the higher the payout.
This would increase the repayability of events, increase challenge this will be based on ability, and add a little more earnings.
As long as the game kept a record of this in each event, then I would find this quite enjoyable.

I think that for most events in career mode, I only play them once. one of the issues with GT7, is that I think for most people they've done 'everything' and feel as though they've largely finished the game.
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I played through most all the menu books handicapping myself for on purpose… penny pinching old school Gran Turismo style and only modding my car just enough to get through. Needless to say, I gave a lot of second and third place finishes. I’ll come back through the game with modded cars in due time
 
Something like what FM3, FM4, FM6 had....
That would be a good start.
I can't mention FM5 because of the microtransactions controversy and I can't mention FM7 either because of the payout controversy when the game released. But at least they listened to the fans and they fixed it.

Forza Motorsport takes into account >>multiplayer<<. It's fun and it's rewarding. That's why the system works.
 
Make it so the harder / longer races pay more compared to easy / short races.

Make it posibel to earn a similar amount of credits in sport, multiplayer, custom races. So everyone can play their prefered mode and still earn a meaningfull amount of credits, and not being forced to play a random stupid AI chase the rabit event.

Make a lot more emphasis om clean racing, and better bonus for that.

Make it posibel to sell used cars, but with a loss from its initial cost.

Make the roulette wheel prices more evenly weighted, and not like now where more or less you always get the lowest price, and getting the highest prices is like a complete miracle.

Stop the random nonense bs where you can only buy a car within a very strict time period, and that car is so expensive that the reality is your only way is to buy it with mtx.

Lower the mtx prices a lot. Personally I would never buy credits in a game like this. But for those who would, the mtx should be a lot more cheap. Something like the prices was in GT sport. Not this nonsense where buing mtx could cost thousands of dollars.

Engage the community a lot more with monthly events, with prices, cars, credits, roulette tickest and so on.

Dont make these events overly hard so its only like 1 % or less in the people who can win. Look at what forza is doing. The events there are fun even for the average Joe, and some are hard, but everyone can win a price, it brings everyone in the community together trying to complete a resonable hard event that has a good price.

I would like if the game had a natural progression. I dont want to have all the cars handed to me in a few hours. All I ask is that all modes of the game pay out a resonable meaningfull amount of credits compared to the time invested.
 
Make the more exclusive/expensive cars be less about money and more about challenges. Money should be used mainly to override challenges in order to get the cars as quick as possible.

Suggestions for unlock requirements:

McLaren F1:
  • Own the Gr.4 and Gr.3 McLaren cars.
  • Set a specific time around Mount Panorama with the Gr.3 car.
  • Partake in 10 online races with a McLaren car.
  • Tune a McLaren car to 1000 BHP.
Ferrari F40:
  • Use an F1 car and set a record time on Monza.
  • Take 3 scape photos with 3 different Ferrari cars.
  • Do an overtake challenge on Maggiore.
  • Beat your own lap time 5 times in a Time Trial with a Ferrari.
 
I repeat the concept:

Remove the credit cap.
The credit cap is "the core"of the micro transaction .
The fact that you can "buy" more than 20 milions in MTX but the average piayer can't have more of 20 milions is pure discrimination!

I know is a heavy word (discrimination) but in this case the possibility (to have more credits) is not giustified by the skills (i.e. l.Hamilton diamond trials on GTS) but is only an advantage for rich players..

GT7 the Real Poverty simulator ..(docet)
 
I see a lot of suggestions that 1m per hour is realistic, but frankly with the current car prices that still wouldn't work. Consider the legendary dealer where a car worth 18m is only available for 5 days, or 120 hours. Let's assume that's 4 days, 5 nights, all on working days. Take away 7 hours for sleep for 4 of those days and 8 hours for work for all 5 and you're left with 68 hours. It might sound like a lot but that's 18 hours without breaks for each expensive car, something that's just frankly not feasible if you want to play other games or try to have a life.

My suggestions for the general economy would probably be:
  • Increase custom race payouts 10x (1 lap of Nurb with max difficulty/payout is 14,000 - 140,000 is reasonable for a track that takes 6-7 minutes in a powerful car)
  • Increase standard event payouts to 150% of their current values (using Fisherman's as a basis, this would now be 45,000cr, or 67,500 with CRB - roughly half of a Nurb custom race for just under half the length)
  • Increase "chili" event payouts to 200% of their current values
  • Either have a daily login bonus, in steps of 10% up to a 50% bonus, or add 1% for every car collector level
  • Make invitations permanent and tie them to your affinity with a manufacturer in some way - this could be spending X amount of credits on their cars, driving X miles with them, or winning X races with them, depending on manufacturer. Porsche could have X races driven, Ferrari could have X credits spend, etc.
  • Make "New engine" in the tuning shop provide that car's engine, so that you can choose to use it as a swap or a replacement, and have the cost be 50% of the car's value
  • Have roulette-only car parts awarded by mileage or credits earned with that specific car
  • Have the UCD randomised per-user, and allow the player's actions to cycle the stock. Maybe keep a row or two dedicated to the online synced ones
  • Allow championships to repeat their three-card-draw rewards, but remove ones you've already won until they run out
 
For example not getting the HUGE amount of 10K Cr. after doing the 30+mins race on Tsukuba in one of the mission challenges. It really is a slap in the face. PD is on a general downward spiral since the GT4 days. They might eventually kill a once biggest Sony IP. That's the level of greed and stupid at work here...
 
Its simple. All events 700pp and up should earn you 1.5m/hour the game would be transformed.
 

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