What's so special about customization?

[The Stig Farmer]

They recreated the Corvette Z06 and ZR1 which are practically the same car save for the engine. No problems there.

 

[nickg07]

Because its gran turismo not need for speed herp derp.

Yes Nissan once created a prototype car that had a 2.0 in a car x y z.

They are the car manufacturer. They have tools to produce concepts like this. And resources and if GT want you to have this car they will make the model themselves and put it into the game.

The stug and mrsafeway your comprehension skills seem very low
Read my last paragraph. PD don't want us to create concept cars, if they want to model them they will make them for us and put them in game so both of your posts are not even...

 

[The Stig Farmer]

Stug? lol

So Nick you are suggesting that PD would struggle to model, for example, wider wheels? I see little problem with that - thanks to the dabbling hybriders, we found that there is no "physical" swapping of parts - it is all run on a multiplier system e.g. Racing Soft tyres have a higher grip multiplier than Comfort Hards. Same with power.

 

[Tornado]

So it was commissioned by Nissan GB who no doubt provides much support as they wanted a halo car to get some public interest. It was a one off non production model.

Not something that a spec driver Scaff can go into his local Nissan dealership to order or go to even a reasonable garage and ask them to make it either. Same with the duke.

What reasonable garage wouldn't take your money to do what is rather frequently a simple modification?

That's not really what GT is about.

You're not Kaz, so this statement is meaningless.

 

[mistersafeway]

The Stig Farmer and mistersafeway your comprehension skills seem very low

Two points: if you're going to insult our "comprehension skills" at least get our names right and bear in mind that you just effectively called us stupid.

 

[nickg07]

Stug? lol

So Nick you are suggesting that PD would struggle to model, for example, wider wheels? I see little problem with that - thanks to the dabbling hybriders, we found that there is no "physical" swapping of parts - it is all run on a multiplier system e.g. Racing Soft tyres have a higher grip multiplier than Comfort Hards. Same with power.

Exactly they can't model it properly so if they gave you free reign to make huge changes to 900 cars the way they would be modelled would be so far removed from their real life brethren that the real implications couldnt possibly be configured correctly. With most upgrades there is a negative as well as positive impact. They barely model the negatives now.

Throw a full racing exhaust on a stock turbo car, how would this even increase bhp ? Probably wouldn't. Probably be worse or no change as the car is still making the same boost its just that the exhaust is more free flowing to enable you to up the boost pressure whilst not being as restricted by the lower dia of a stock exhaust system.

I don't know how much modding you do in the real world but it seems that you think you can stick a few parts on a car and its all wonga.

Adding wider wheels might give you more grip but could ruin the ride with issues like tram lining and increased unsprung weight adversely affecting the balance and handling of the car.

 

[Tornado]

So you're making the argument that PD is too incompetent to do it correctly, so they should instead not even bother?

 

[nickg07]

Two points: if you're going to insult our "comprehension skills" at least get our names right and bear in mind that you just effectively called us stupid.

Well it would help if you read my posts before going into flame mode perhaps trying to prove a point that was pointless in this instance.

 

[nickg07]

So you're making the argument that PD is too incompetent to do it correctly, so they should instead not even bother?

I'm saying that PD won't go too far and allow you to make mods that they couldn't possibly begin to model well unless they per produce said customisation in house.
They give you a few basic mods that they as you can say add a few multipliers but significantly going over and doing more than this will make your user created cars so unrealistic that PD just wouldn't do it.

 

[mistersafeway]

Fair enough, why don't you read what Toronado said then:

What reasonable garage wouldn't take your money to do what is rather frequently a simple modification?



You're not Kaz, so this statement is meaningless.

 

[Tornado]

I'm saying that PD won't go too far and allow you to make mods that they couldn't possibly begin to model well unless they per produce said customisation in house.
They give you a few basic mods that they as you can say add a few multipliers but significantly going over and doing more than this will make your user created cars so unrealistic that PD just wouldn't do it.

I don't see how when other games, and indeed previous GT games, have done their tuning with a much more realistic cause/effect relationship.

 

[nickg07]

Fair enough, why don't you read what Toronado said then:

I'm not Katz but I can see from his last 5 games a pattern emerging about what he does and doesn't want.

 

[nickg07]

I don't see how when other games, and indeed previous GT games, have done their tuning with a much more realistic cause/effect relationship.

These other games use what's called broscience and weren't attempting to be realistic to start with. Throwing in some max power mods to them is no biggie in the grand scheme of thongs. They use characature cars by design and same with their mod system.

 

[jgancherjr]

These other games use what's called broscience... in the grand scheme of thongs.

So are these "bro thongs" or women in thongs, I may be interested in this thread more now

 

[Scaff]

These other games use what's called broscience and weren't attempting to be realistic to start with. Throwing in some max power mods to them is no biggie in the grand scheme of thongs. They use characature cars by design and same with their mod system.

What on earth are you talking about.

None of the games discussed allow unrealistic cars to be created at all, and I strongly suspect that you are not aware of how they actually work. Bigger wheels (in any direction for example do affect un-sprung weight in FM4, in fact unlike GT5 all mods in FM4 affect weight).

As for this being the remit of manufacturers or concept cars only...

Datsun 240Z with an LS1 (among others)

Most common Engine swaps

E30 M3 Twin Cam conversion

Need more?

 

[nickg07]

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Broscience

So no one has anything to add about how well PD can possibly handle these variations on 900 cars and try to depict them anywhere near faithfully incurring the negative as well ad the positive externalities?

What they can't do without a modicum of reality they won't do. And as they can't guess what retarded impact putting a veyron engine into a mini might be they won't offer you a game that attempts to recreate the fictional.

 

[Tornado]

These other games use what's called broscience and weren't attempting to be realistic to start with. Throwing in some max power mods to them is no biggie in the grand scheme of thongs. They use characature cars by design and same with their mod system.

I'm pretty sure the examples being talked about were/are sims, and I never mentioned anything about just maxing cars out, so try again.

So no one has anything to add about how well PD can possibly handle these variations on 900 cars and try to depict them anywhere near faithfully incurring the negative as well ad the positive externalities?

Again, it's hardly an all-or-nothing situation. GT2/GT1 did a hell of a lot better job at customization than GT3-GT5 does, even though it wasn't perfect.

 

[Scaff]

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Broscience

So no one has anything to add about how well PD can possibly handle these variations on 900 cars and try to depict them anywhere near faithfully incurring the negative as well ad the positive externalities?

Given that other titles do it rather well I don't see why PD can't.

Keep in mind that PD are currently behind the competition in this area not ahead of it.

What they can't do without a modicum of reality they won't do. And as they can't guess what retarded impact putting a veyron engine into a mini might be they won't offer you a game that attempts to recreate the fictional.

Who's said that unrealistic example should be allowed?

Licencing will stop a lot and checking what can and can't be done is more than possible (as I have already shown).

 

[PepeMickey]

True, but I still found Shift2's livery editor obnoxious and generally impossible. Eventually I just gave up and used the preset liveries because I couldn't make anything worth looking at. Compared to previous NFS games, they had a very small number of vinyl categories, limited to 10 vinyls per category, and two of the categories were "STANCE" stupidity. They also didn't include any pre-made numbers. So they obviously intended for you to assemble your own numbers and decals from their base shapes... enter NFS lo-res vinyls. The color-selection system was also a step down from that of previous games. Why bother seriously.

Oh yes, I know what you are talking about, the controls were complete trash, you had no accuracy and the shapes weren't placed in the center by default, shapes that you've had rotated or skewed for some reason inverted their angles once you saved your work up and going back to fix them only triggered the ''dissapeared livery'' bug. Sometimes, out nowhere the liveries just dissapeared.

What I never understood is that in Photo Mode you had a ''slow modifier'' button but not in the livery editor, why? I still managed to create some amazing liveries that live until this day but I agree with you, even Shift's 1 livery editor was miles better and Forza's one = there's no comparison.

 

[ghsnu]

I'm not really one for customization, although more wouldn't hurt (that is after more important parts of the game are considered). The guys who attempt to make replicas definitely want more parts - and so do the ricer guys who want gigantic wings for their Civic. Some of the "hellaflush stance JDM" tuners look superb, but the rest just look atrocious.

I kind of thank PD for not including many kits, but at the same time the game could use more customization in general - a basic paint system (rather than this BS paint chip system), a few more wheel options that are available for every car, and a more thourough upgrade system (somewhat like Forza I guess) that isn't afraid of making 1000HP+ cars would definitely refresh the series a bit.

Or we could just return to GT4. Ah, the good ol days...

 

[PepeMickey]

So, what I hear is that the top features for GT6's customization would be:

1.-Livery Editor

2.-Swaps

And that should be enough for people to create their ''special'' cars. Shift's racing modifications would be EPIC but we are talking about PD here so not happening.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

I'm saying that PD won't go too far and allow you to make mods that they couldn't possibly begin to model well unless they per produce said customisation in house.

They've already added a bunch of make-believe tires that are given arbitrary grip values based on a simple multiplier formula, where tire width and size have no seeming affect on lateral g's. You were saying?

I'm not Katz but I can see from his last 5 games a pattern emerging about what he does and doesn't want.

GT-R's.

Considering the limitations of modding within the series, there isn't much of a pattern. Modified, RM'd road cars were the fastest in GT1 in all but the most extreme situations (the Concept Car LM / Cerbera LM / FTO LM weight discrepancies based on region), but GT2 knocked almost 200hp off the tuning ceiling of most of the returning road cars (941hp from an R33 in GT1 played off 750-ish in GT2). Instead, GT2 had the GT-one and R390 ruling the roost, with no ability to bump race car horsepower levels. GT3 - excluding the F1 cars - introduced turbo kits to race cars, littering the game with 4-digit power figures. 1800hp Escudo? Sure, why not! GT4 knocked the power levels down a bit, but race cars by and large could still fit turbos, and the LMP's would consistently run around 1200hp.

These other games use what's called broscience and weren't attempting to be realistic to start with. Throwing in some max power mods to them is no biggie in the grand scheme of thongs. They use characature cars by design and same with their mod system.

 

[Tornado]

Or the High-RPM turbos being equipped to 40 year old race cars that already had highly stressed engines. A Ferrari P4 with a ton of boost run into it would in no way become a hand grenade behind your head, sure.

 

[PepeMickey]

Or the High-RPM turbos being equipped to 40 year old race cars that already had highly stressed engines. A Ferrari P4 with a ton of boost run into it would in no way become a hand grenade behind your head, sure.

ABS/TC on 1950's cars, we must not forget GT5 isn't a full ''hardcore'' simulator, it has to cater too casuals more than us to stay alive and for those casuals GT5 does the job.

 

[Mitsubishi]

Y'all wanted hybrids?
Some are already in the game!

And

 

[nickg07]

Or the High-RPM turbos being equipped to 40 year old race cars that already had highly stressed engines. A Ferrari P4 with a ton of boost run into it would in no way become a hand grenade behind your head, sure.

Hi this is true. So you can see what mistakes are possible now multiply that by every car and by all the random mods you wanted and the game would be hysterically inaccurate rather than just inaccurate in places...

Like people who want to add a turbo to an na sr20de or 3sge...in real world you'd swap to a lower compression pre turboed variant with tougher bottom end and oil squirters in the right place.

But then dropping in the new engine means new drive shafts gearbox will also add about 30kg and necessitate new exhaust and intake manifolds plus intercooler adding tons of weight.

So ultimately for simplicity sake GT just assumes you can add a turbo without the rest.

 

[Voodoovaj]

GT is the only game that is really about car culture. It always has been. The latest mod movement is at the core of car culture.

 

[Johnnypenso]

...snip... All these make me wonder ...snip...I just don't get it,

I think cars are beautiful just the way the come out of the dealership,

I find it hilarious ....

To each their own

As you said in your own post, you don't get it and that's ok, you don't have to. But you have millions of players out there and many of the are interested in creating their own rides, personalizing their own cars for their own purposes, whatever they may be. When you buy a phone you don't just use it the way it came from the store you add your own apps, move things around, prioritize certain functions don't you? You make it work for you. My work truck has added running boards, chrome wheels and bumpers, a custom style cap same colour as the body, to suit my work needs. It was hybrided if you will, to work better for me.

Being able to customize would have extended the life of the game for sure, along with proper drag tracks, more drifting options etc....all things I don't do in the game, but I understand they appeal to others and I'm all for it.

 

[Johnnypenso]

...snip... All these make me wonder ...snip...I just don't get it,

I think cars are beautiful just the way the come out of the dealership,

I find it hilarious ....

To each their own

As you said in your own post, you don't get it and that's ok, you don't have to. But you have millions of players out there and many of the are interested in creating their own rides, personalizing their own cars for their own purposes, whatever they may be. When you buy a phone you don't just use it the way it came from the store you add your own apps, move things around, prioritize certain functions don't you? You make it work for you. My work truck has added running boards, chrome wheels and bumpers, a custom style cap same colour as the body, to suit my work needs. It was hybrided if you will, to work better for me.

Being able to customize would have extended the life of the game for sure, along with proper drag tracks, more drifting options etc....all things I don't do in the game, but I understand they appeal to others and I'm all for it. As it is, I think 99% of the buyers of the game are done with it and awaiting GT6.

 

[Scaff]

Hi this is true. So you can see what mistakes are possible now multiply that by every car and by all the random mods you wanted and the game would be hysterically inaccurate rather than just inaccurate in places...

Like people who want to add a turbo to an na sr20de or 3sge...in real world you'd swap to a lower compression pre turboed variant with tougher bottom end and oil squirters in the right place.

But then dropping in the new engine means new drive shafts gearbox will also add about 30kg and necessitate new exhaust and intake manifolds plus intercooler adding tons of weight.

So ultimately for simplicity sake GT just assumes you can add a turbo without the rest.

And other titles also factor in the change in weight and the effect it has on weight distribution (and not just for engine and drivetrain changes, but for all parts).

As such I don't see this as being a reason why it can't be done at all in the GT series.

We do at least seem to have moved past 'only manufacturers can do this' to 'PD can't do this right so why bother', while the first was simply not true the second I don't agree with you on. Others have done it already and as such no excuse exists for PD not to do it as well.