Whats the correct way to overtake on the inside of a corner?

[markvanhaze]

All the info you´re after (and many other important and interesting one) may be found here:

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...our-on-gts-online-races.375408/#post-12231703
This is about correct overtaking and correct behaviour on Racing... and Of course that GTS Penalization system has nothing to do with it....

Good read that. I think the key rule here is:

Overtaking
O-1: To obtain right of road position in a corner, the overtaker's car must have substantial overlap of the car that is being overtaken, before they reach the corner's turn-in point. Should the overtaking car not have enough overlap, the leading car may resume its racing line without fear of contact.

That "substantial" part is what I feel GTS gets wrong on too many occasions.

Watch the exact issue here although in this case the penalty goes to the outside car:


And then more weirdness here:

 

[gapper59]

If you're either beside them or slightly ahead then it's their own fault for closing the door. They probably don't even know that you're there because they don't look at their radar or at the red dots in the HUD. Usually these people then give you **** after the race is finished for "crashing them off track"

When the red target looking light comes on, does that mean the car next to you is far enough along side that they have the right away?

 

[John Crellin]

That's counter steering assist.

Unless u mean the orange ripples that appear at the corners of you HUD display. Then that Means contact occured on the respective side

 

[Nuschel01]

When the red target looking light comes on, does that mean the car next to you is far enough along side that they have the right away?

No it‘s just an indicator for people without the radar turned on that there is a car. They tend to ignore it tho

 

[gapper59]

That's counter steering assist.

Unless u mean the orange ripples that appear at the corners of you HUD display. Then that Means contact occured on the respective side

Don't use steering assist. I was talking about the red circle that comes on on the right side of the dash. I assume that's the Hub right?

 

[John Crellin]

Don't use steering assist. I was talking about the red circle that comes on on the right side of the dash. I assume that's the Hub right?

Is it a cross hairs symbol next to the TCS indicator?

Is it white and lights up red?

Edit: otherwise it is the orange indicator (flashing orange concentric circles) that appears when you contact another opponent

 

[gapper59]

No it‘s just an indicator for people without the radar turned on that there is a car. They tend to ignore it tho

I always use radar, every once in awhile I'll forget to turn it

Sorry for messing up your quote. I did it on my phone and don't know how to change it

 

[Koutch_Pro]

I know what you mean, you are thinking doing a clean overtake on the inside, but get slammed.

In the SR c / b range that happens a lot. It really left me in fury a lot of times. Just about everything what the other guys said, I can second. The moment I got the SR up to A/S, it was an eye opener, so much better racing and situational awereness.

The most guys/girls in the daily races with SR c or so don't have a real racing craft developed yet, and you can harvest that by pulling some tricks on them.
You could see that most drivers tend to be overdefencive towards the inside overtaking line. You could try the switchback move, that could be effective for you.



But the most important thing is to get the SR up to a/s. In the road towards that, try to push the others into a mistake by applying a lot of pressure.

 

[Mirror_man]

I know what you mean, you are thinking doing a clean overtake on the inside, but get slammed.

In the SR c / b range that happens a lot. It really left me in fury a lot of times. Just about everything what the other guys said, I can second. The moment I got the SR up to A/S, it was an eye opener, so much better racing and situational awereness.

The most guys/girls in the daily races with SR c or so don't have a real racing craft developed yet, and you can harvest that by pulling some tricks on them.
You could see that most drivers tend to be overdefencive towards the inside overtaking line. You could try the switchback move, that could be effective for you.



But the most important thing is to get the SR up to a/s. In the road towards that, try to push the others into a mistake by applying a lot of pressure.

"I know what you mean, you are thinking doing a clean overtake on the inside, but get slammed." The part "you are thinking" is funny... the same thing surely will apply to the thoughts of the other guy... Have you considered the overtake moove under the "guidelines" for overtaking and racing etiquette that I´ve listed in this thread:

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...-play-gts-with-new-penalization-system.375408

Please do so... and afterwards may you tell me what you think about it, please????

Honestly I did´nt see the video but you have... so... I believe that with the info i´ve listed is that thread.. you probably have all that is needed to judge correctly... (I don´t) so I´m just asking you if you could please clarify.. my doubt about if such correct overtaking was correct or not!

 

[Matty28]

Since the latest update, I am really struggling to keep my SR above a C and I often dont understand why I get a penalty. My biggest gripe is overtaking in a corner on the inside and getting the door closed (aka slams into me) by the outside driver, at which point I get a penalty.

So what are the exact rules for such a maneuver? When can the other driver close the door and when does he need to keep it open?

The game gives you a penalty either way so don't bother - just wait for them to get a penalty. If you really want to try, it's not your fault if you are fully alongside coming into the apex. It's only your fault if you basically do a pit manoeuvre on them or go straight into their side.

 

[SestoScudo]

Go hard or go home. Using ayrton senna's philosophy. If you dont go for a gap you're no longer a racing driver.

 

[markvanhaze]

Well Since I started this thread I will let you know a solution: I spent yesterday all day doing the long Blue Moon track (16 laps) and did not do a single qualifier. That meant I started dead last every race and when racing I did drive as if every single car was deadly lava so I avoided any contact, did not overtake unless I was on a straight with good exit speed or drafting and did not try to even get a good position. Also, I was driving my trusty Beetle - not fast by any means but super stable on turns and when getting rammed by others.

Even so I got punted off the track or hit by salty drivers who did not like me drafting (yup, ramming on straights as well) BUT I didnt get penalties. The only times I got penalties was because some drivers think they need to come to a slow down right after a bend to run down their penalty and naturally, you slam straight into them. It is of course hard for SR D/C/B drivers to realize that the track is being used by others too...

I pretty much ended every race mid field, sometimes I could get even 5th or 6th. As is the case with these lower SR drivers, you can be sure they will kill each other sufficiently while you just watch the carnage from behind and wait for them to crash each other out.

So then as a last race I actually did run a qualifier, got pole on that (I was still in SR B) and got 2nd overall. Now im in SR S again. Home.

http://www.kudosprime.com/gts/stats.php?profile=3460244

 

[Robben]

Is it a cross hairs symbol next to the TCS indicator?

Is it white and lights up red?

Edit: otherwise it is the orange indicator (flashing orange concentric circles) that appears when you contact another opponent

These circles are red for me and also in the videos posted in comment #31...

 

[Mirror_man]

Go hard or go home. Using ayrton senna's philosophy. If you dont go for a gap you're no longer a racing driver.

That´s a bit... too much resumed...

In true racing that applies but not only that... you must add that the gap is not only a gap. ..but the "GAP"!! and that is a gap that can be taken only without an high risk of putting in danger the lifes from both racers... not all gaps are GAPS !!!!!! (not all gaps can be taken!!!...)

 

[SestoScudo]

That´s a bit... too much resumed...

In true racing that applies but not only that... you must add that the gap is not only a gap. ..but the "GAP"!! and that is a gap that can be taken only without an high risk of putting in danger the lifes from both racers... not all gaps are GAPS !!!!!! (not all gaps can be taken!!!...)

I dont disagree with your statement. Sometimes the risk could pay off.

 

[Mirror_man]

I dont disagree with your statement. Sometimes the risk could pay off.

Pay off??? Or have an added Cost.. to much high for what you can take??

 

[WheelmanSteve]

Two thoughts- 1. The mirrors in this game are crap. In a lot of cars, even with the seat all the way back, you have just sliver of mirror. The other driver might NOT see you. 2. Once I've committed to turn-in, I'm looking at my apex and exit, not my radar.
I think we need to remember that you don't, and can't, have the same situational awareness in-game that you do in RL. In another thread on driving etiquette, the point is made repeatedly that the driver behind holds the obligation not to hit the driver ahead. Given the items I've noted- mirrors, etc, overlap situations are always going to be dicey. I also think PD needs to add the option of a virtual mirror to every car. (Unless it's there and I've missed it?)
Lately, my goal has simply been to advance a couple of P's and stay blue.

 

[notnilc20]

First thing....Don't dive bomb....that's annoying!

 

[Koutch_Pro]

"I know what you mean, you are thinking doing a clean overtake on the inside, but get slammed." The part "you are thinking" is funny... the same thing surely will apply to the thoughts of the other guy... Have you considered the overtake moove under the "guidelines" for overtaking and racing etiquette that I´ve listed in this thread:

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...-play-gts-with-new-penalization-system.375408

Please do so... and afterwards may you tell me what you think about it, please????

Honestly I did´nt see the video but you have... so... I believe that with the info i´ve listed is that thread.. you probably have all that is needed to judge correctly... (I don´t) so I´m just asking you if you could please clarify.. my doubt about if such correct overtaking was correct or not!

Good to have given you a laugh 👍. Sorry, too much text, so didn't read it . I use the racing guideline that a karting coach teached me.

 

[Mirror_man]

First thing....Don't dive bomb....that's annoying!

Annoying???? Sorry????? You´re kidding.. of course... (only excuse)

That´s a complete disrespect for the player you´re bombing... an a complete disrespect for ALL the Rules of Fairplay!!!

Good to have given you a laugh 👍. Sorry, too much text, so didn't read it . I use the racing guideline that a karting coach teached me.

and used it well . I expect...

 

[BallPtPenTheif]

Go hard or go home. Using ayrton senna's philosophy. If you dont go for a gap you're no longer a racing driver.

That's not Senna's philosophy.

Senna made that quote as a lie to defend his intentional crash into Prost to force his win for the series. He later slipped up and admitted the following.. “I said to myself: ‘OK, you try to work cleanly and do the job properly and you get ****ed by stupid people. All right, if tomorrow Prost beats me off the line, at the first corner I will go for it, and he better not turn in because he is not going to make it’. And it just happened.”

There was never an overlap and never a gap. If Senna didn't have that series on lock (barring Prost winning) he never would have gone for that apex.


This article goes into further depth.
https://www.racefans.net/2015/11/20...ich-exists-you-are-no-longer-a-racing-driver/

 

[DigitalBaka]

Go hard or go home. Using ayrton senna's philosophy. If you dont go for a gap you're no longer a racing driver.

Not ragging on you so please don't take it that way. I mean no harm!

IMO it's this kind of BS thinking that causes the problem in the first place. As @Mirror_man said, not every gap is a gap and 95% of those that play can't tell the difference. You get players who can "almost gold all the events" thinking they are the fastest on the planet and the rest of us are just obstacles on their path to riches and glory.

There are really only 2-3 places on a track where you can pass safely with high percentage and a proper "gap". Everywhere else you are rolling the dice that you and those around you won't end up face first in the armco. Yeah, there's no actual risk that you're going to injure or kill anyone (unless NerveGear becomes a thing... /nerdhat ) but that shouldn't excuse poor judgement.

Apologies again, but I get triggered every time I see people quoting Senna as gospel like they understand the context and meaning behind the words.

 

[war_ops_84]

I've done inside passes where the other driver makes contact with me and I got no penalty. The reason, I believe, was because I was basically side-by-side with them when they made contact. But if you're trying to pass on the inside while BEHIND and the other driver makes contact, then the benefit of the doubt should generally go to the driver who is ahead.

 

[Crazy Taylor]

Not ragging on you so please don't take it that way. I mean no harm!

IMO it's this kind of BS thinking that causes the problem in the first place. As @Mirror_man said, not every gap is a gap and 95% of those that play can't tell the difference. You get players who can "almost gold all the events" thinking they are the fastest on the planet and the rest of us are just obstacles on their path to riches and glory.

There are really only 2-3 places on a track where you can pass safely with high percentage and a proper "gap". Everywhere else you are rolling the dice that you and those around you won't end up face first in the armco. Yeah, there's no actual risk that you're going to injure or kill anyone (unless NerveGear becomes a thing... /nerdhat ) but that shouldn't excuse poor judgement.

Apologies again, but I get triggered every time I see people quoting Senna as gospel like they understand the context and meaning behind the words.

Thinking that they will need to play gts first in sao or accel world before someone dies in a car.

 

[war_ops_84]

Go hard or go home. Using ayrton senna's philosophy. If you dont go for a gap you're no longer a racing driver.

His "philosophy" sounds pretty silly and self-serving. It would be like Michael Jordan saying, "If you don't hit your opponent in the nuts when the ref isn't looking, then you're no longer a basketball player."

 

[Mirror_man]

Not ragging on you so please don't take it that way. I mean no harm!

IMO it's this kind of BS thinking that causes the problem in the first place. As @Mirror_man said, not every gap is a gap and 95% of those that play can't tell the difference. You get players who can "almost gold all the events" thinking they are the fastest on the planet and the rest of us are just obstacles on their path to riches and glory.

There are really only 2-3 places on a track where you can pass safely with high percentage and a proper "gap". Everywhere else you are rolling the dice that you and those around you won't end up face first in the armco. Yeah, there's no actual risk that you're going to injure or kill anyone (unless NerveGear becomes a thing... /nerdhat ) but that shouldn't excuse poor judgement.

Apologies again, but I get triggered every time I see people quoting Senna as gospel like they understand the context and meaning behind the words.

Simply.. perfect.. your post. . and thanks for mentioning me!

I've done inside passes where the other driver makes contact with me and I got no penalty. The reason, I believe, was because I was basically side-by-side with them when they made contact. But if you're trying to pass on the inside while BEHIND and the other driver makes contact, then the benefit of the doubt should generally go to the driver who is ahead.

It probably should... but I think that both "pay" for it... unjustly... but just let me add that, this only with the condition that if the contact would happen when the car from the "attacking" racer had is front wheels behind the seat of the "defending" car driver! (I beleive that those are more or less the current rules on some racing entities.. for this situation)

 

[DGXR]

Since the latest update, I am really struggling to keep my SR above a C and I often dont understand why I get a penalty. My biggest gripe is overtaking in a corner on the inside and getting the door closed (aka slams into me) by the outside driver, at which point I get a penalty.

So what are the exact rules for such a maneuver? When can the other driver close the door and when does he need to keep it open?

You need to gain the advantage on the straight leading to the corner. In other words, you should already be on the inside and have your car (or at least half of it) next to the other car, on the inside, when you get to the turn. They will have no option but to let you pass, even if they do bump into you. That doesn't mean drivers should just forefeit their position when being challenged - I've had many battles for position, some of them were clean and very exciting!

Basically if you don't have a solid nose (corner advantage) inside of the other car, you should abandon the attempt and regroup. Otherwise you're just shoving your way inside which is not clean or respectful. Anyway, that's how I try to make a clean pass. I can't tell you how to avoid the penalty as that depends on the other driver being respectful. If they really deserve the position, they will yield it to you temporarily, then pass you later on and reclaim it. (I have slammed the door on a challenger when they clearly didn't have an advantage on me, they were just trying to see how long I would tiptoe around them trying to avoid contact.)

 

[Nuschel01]

His "philosophy" sounds pretty silly and self-serving. It would be like Michael Jordan saying, "If you don't hit your opponent in the nuts when the ref isn't looking, then you're no longer a basketball player."

That's not Senna's philosophy.

Senna made that quote as a lie to defend his intentional crash into Prost to force his win for the series. He later slipped up and admitted the following.. “I said to myself: ‘OK, you try to work cleanly and do the job properly and you get ****ed by stupid people. All right, if tomorrow Prost beats me off the line, at the first corner I will go for it, and he better not turn in because he is not going to make it’. And it just happened.”

There was never an overlap and never a gap. If Senna didn't have that series on lock (barring Prost winning) he never would have gone for that apex.


This article goes into further depth.
https://www.racefans.net/2015/11/20...ich-exists-you-are-no-longer-a-racing-driver/

—————————————————

With the new penalty system I tend to just stick back and wait for the drivers in front of me either crashing themselves off or getting crashed off by others and then overtake when they‘re serving their penalties or recover from the gravel pits. However I managed to do some clean overtakes too where the guy I overtook even texted a thanks for the fair race in the post-race chat 👍

In general just don‘t try to force your way past somebody but either put them under pressure or overtake when there is an actual gap for you which also leads to not pushing the other car off track upon exiting the corner..

 

[SestoScudo]

My tactics does not mean I dive bomb. By the way I dont risk it all the time. But sometimes in races I try to aim for cool overtakes. At times you gotta entertain yourself without having to ruin anybody's online race rather than having a boring race.

 

[Alpha Cipher]

My tactics does not mean I dive bomb. By the way I dont risk it all the time. But sometimes in races I try to aim for cool overtakes. At times you gotta entertain yourself without having to ruin anybody's online race rather than having a boring race.

As long as the risk is kept to yourself, I agree with your statement
Try overtaking on the outside everynow and then. The sense of achievement when you do that is amazing