What's the deal with aids?

[inuakki]

I am of course referring to the driving aids and why it is that people say you should turn them off? I personally don't use any of the non-realistic / beginner ones, but I don't see what the problem is with having traction control on the default 5 along with ASM on and ABS set at 1. Does it allow you to get better lap times or is it just supposed to be more of a challenge?

 

[SpartanG]

Just more of a challenge. A lot of people tend to think of the aids as crutches. I personally don't use them but i also don't carry the elitist attitude about it that some people do.

 

[heinz57]

At first you will be faster with them. But, to answer your question, you will be faster without them after a while. I still use ABS 1 though. I turn TCS and all others off though. You get much better control of the car doing it manually.

The biggest joke is that PD for some reason left TCS on for rally cars. In my opinion TCS should go off by default whenever you go to a rally course, then leave it up to the user if they want it on. All TCS does is prevent tire spin, which makes rallying VERY hard.

 

[Merquise]

Driving line: Unrealistic. I dont care if people use this or not. Can be helpfull if you never driven the track before but at a certain point you have to turn it off because it makes you faster having it turned off. Knowing the track, feeeeeling the track is more important than this line.

Traction Control: well.. most modern cars have it. I think I;m faster with TC off than with on, so I don't care if people use it. Only when tire conservation is an issue, eg long races, TC is a good aid to have. I have no problem with people using this aid.

Skid Recovery Force: Now THERE is a rediculous aid.
Imho this 'aid' should be banned from GT5. What does it do? When you loose grip, it instantly adds 30% more grip tot he game physics. It's a downright CHEAT.
And this cheat is so good it's impossible to be faster without SRF on that with SRF off (same player, same car).
I haaaaate it. If you go into a corner waayyy too fast: learn to break earlier !
How are you gonna learn the track with this horrible 'aid' on !
Baaaahh..

Active steering: reduces the steering angle if you're steering too sharply.
Well.. it reduces tire wear a bit. Doesn't make people go faster.
I'd say go for it. New drivers will like this aid, but experienced drivers will not need it anymore. If a corner is 20° just steer 20° and not 90°...
Might be good for DS3 users, but since I got wheel I don't see whey I'd use it.
Don't care if other people do use it.


ASM: I wished all fast people would use this because this 'aid' only slows people down.
Only if you're reeeeaaallly bad at driving you're faster with this aid on than off.
My mom *might* be faster with this thing on that off. But even that is doubtfull.
Please, turn this on so I can lap you more easily

ABS: Well.. I got G25 wheel and it;s im-possible to look at my brakes without locking them up.
Even with 1-1 braking force everything locks up. I'm always using it @ABS1, so I can't blame other people for using it. It does make me go faster. Most modern cars have it. I think this aid is used by like 99% of the GT5 community. I;d say go for it.

 

[Shmorgusborg]

Aids are incredibly helpful for first time racers. It helps them learn to control speed, cornering, and acceleration out of said cornering. The only thing that is a drawback from using these is it can sometimes be a tad unrealistic with how the real life car handles.


So most racers want to have a more realistic feel to the game and a little more fun by turning off TCS and ABS which means you have to be better with feathering the accelerator and learning route lines better so you know when to brake into a corner without locking up the vehicle. It's more fun in my opinion to not have any aids on, or at least turn TCS off and ABS to 1.


It's all preference for each person for each car. You can go faster with having the aids turned down. If you try to run a race with the aids on default and then with them turned all the way down, you'll see (if you know how to drive with the aids off) that you'll be faster than leaving them at default setting.

 

[GT_Prologue5]

It's apparently something that some people use to say "I'm better at a video game than you."

Oh wait, I really don't care. Good for you.

 

[Shmorgusborg]

It's apparently something that some people use to say "I'm better at a video game than you."

Oh wait, I really don't care. Good for you.

You're right, there are people who use it for that very reason. However it's all preference for each person. Someone people need all the ego boost they can find.

 

[inuakki]

Driving line: Unrealistic. I dont care if people use this or not. Can be helpfull if you never driven the track before but at a certain point you have to turn it off because it makes you faster having it turned off. Knowing the track, feeeeeling the track is more important than this line.

Traction Control: well.. most modern cars have it. I think I;m faster with TC off than with on, so I don't care if people use it. Only when tire conservation is an issue, eg long races, TC is a good aid to have. I have no problem with people using this aid.

Skid Recovery Force: Now THERE is a rediculous aid.
Imho this 'aid' should be banned from GT5. What does it do? When you loose grip, it instantly adds 30% more grip tot he game physics. It's a downright CHEAT.
And this cheat is so good it's impossible to be faster without SRF on that with SRF off (same player, same car).
I haaaaate it. If you go into a corner waayyy too fast: learn to break earlier !
How are you gonna learn the track with this horrible 'aid' on !
Baaaahh..

Active steering: reduces the steering angle if you're steering too sharply.
Well.. it reduces tire wear a bit. Doesn't make people go faster.
I'd say go for it. New drivers will like this aid, but experienced drivers will not need it anymore. If a corner is 20° just steer 20° and not 90°...
Might be good for DS3 users, but since I got wheel I don't see whey I'd use it.
Don't care if other people do use it.

ASM: I wished all fast people would use this because this 'aid' only slows people down.
Only if you're reeeeaaallly bad at driving you're faster with this aid on than off.
My mom *might* be faster with this thing on that off. But even that is doubtfull.
Please, turn this on so I can lap you more easily

ABS: Well.. I got G25 wheel and it;s im-possible to look at my brakes without locking them up.
Even with 1-1 braking force everything locks up. I'm always using it @ABS1, so I can't blame other people for using it. It does make me go faster. Most modern cars have it. I think this aid is used by like 99% of the GT5 community. I;d say go for it.

Yep, I agree with you man. I never use skid recovery force nor do I use active steering as I've always played gt5 with a wheel. Abs at 1 as you said most people have, however I was not aware of how the ASM worked. I always left it on just because it was a default one, but good to know. As far as the driving line I still like using it even at level 24 in a spec. I played gt4 without it, but when I got gt5 I decided to use it to improve my driving and hopefully learn most driving angles. That said, it may be fun turning it off and seeing how I do, but I don't think I could do nearly as well on some tracks without it.

 

[boredgunner]

Nothing's wrong with using the ones you mentioned, but they limit your potential. I'm noticeably faster with TCS and ASM off on any car. I only use ABS and I hate driving without it.

 

[inuakki]

Nothing's wrong with using the ones you mentioned, but they limit your potential. I'm noticeably faster with TCS and ASM off on any car. I only use ABS and I hate driving without it.

The ASM I'm definitely not using anymore, however the TCS I'll have to be more gradual with.

 

[TeddyBear-420]

all i use is ABS 1

 

[nosoks]

All good points, use the ones you need/ want to, don't worry about what others think, only where you're comfortable. I use abs1 as many here do, I have had ASM actually stop my car mid turn in a rally event

 

[zodicus]

abs 1 is all i use aswell. i ran 20 laps to set a good average on suzuka east with asm on and off and i was definatly faster with it off. i dont remeber the times i ran or the differance as it was some time ago.

 

[Merquise]

The ASM I'm definitely not using anymore, however the TCS I'll have to be more gradual with.

Start by turning TCS off on low power cars.
That way you can learn to 'steer with throttle'...
Don't feel bad to use TCS on high powered cars like the LM cars.

Also, aids or no aids also depends heavily on using DS3 or wheel imho.

 

[watermelon punch]

The funny thing is, that most of the stuff AIDS do, you can also do with just learning how to tune the car well.

The true challenge, of course, is driving completely unmodified cars with no aids. Then you have to adapt to the car, rather than making the car adapt to you.

But all said, I don't think there's any wrong way to play a game. The options are there to make it appeal to a variety of types of players, with different goals in mind for their enjoyment.

So you need to find out how YOU enjoy the game, and then decide when & where you want to use aids or not use aids. And experiment with turning them on or off to see what use they really are to you. They may not be in some cases!

It's apparently something that some people use to say "I'm better at a video game than you."
Oh wait, I really don't care. Good for you.

This is of course, often the case. It happens with every video game I think. LOL Especially for people who have no other outlet (whether by choice or circumstance). There's always going to be people who brag about nonsense. And others who want to have fun, and just share their experience.

The biggest joke is that PD for some reason left TCS on for rally cars. In my opinion TCS should go off by default whenever you go to a rally course, then leave it up to the user if they want it on. All TCS does is prevent tire spin, which makes rallying VERY hard.

Exactly.

I think 9 times out of 10, TC does more harm than good for me.
Maybe set at 1 I find it helpful, if I haven't modified a car of a certain type. Or in a license test.

But in rally cars for rally courses, IMHO, TC is always a hindering aid... and that the default is set at a whopping 5 seems positively outrageous.

 

[watermelon punch]

Start by turning TCS off on low power cars.
That way you can learn to 'steer with throttle'...
Don't feel bad to use TCS on high powered cars like the LM cars.

Also, aids or no aids also depends heavily on using DS3 or wheel imho.

That's good advice.

I tend to only find TC helpful on high powered race cars & such... or unmodified high powered antiques. And even then, cranking it up too high still does more harm than good.

Sometimes I find turning ABS all the way off actually helps me in some cases.
And I found that turning the power steering thing on helped me with some things.

I use a ds3... so my experience might be different than someone using TC with a wheel & foot pedals. TC might do more good when using a wheel, but I wouldn't know.

I do know that I'm delicate on the throttle, but kind of herky jerky when steering, and not delicate enough on braking. So individual skills & strengths & weaknesses may factor more or less in the usefulness of various aids as well.

 

[Sn1per666]

Personally I prefer the challenge and I hate electronics getting in the way of the driving experience. That's why I don't like cars like the GT-R it just feels like theres various electronics that are keeping me on the track rather than my driving skill.

The only time driving aid users annoy me is when someone wins with skid recovery on and starts bragging about how awesome they are.

 

[Merquise]

Personally I prefer the challenge and I hate electronics getting in the way of the driving experience. That's why I don't like cars like the GT-R it just feels like theres various electronics that are keeping me on the track rather than my driving skill.

The only time driving aid users annoy me is when someone wins with skid recovery on and starts bragging about how awesome they are.

Err..
You do realise that the GT-R in GT5 is 'just another car' right?
So, unlike the real life car, it doesnt have all sorts of gimmicks and aids.

In game, if you turn off the ABS it's off, if you turn off TC it's off.
Or am I mistaken and are you talking about the real-life cars?

 

[iamjajo]

Personally I prefer the challenge and I hate electronics getting in the way of the driving experience. That's why I don't like cars like the GT-R it just feels like theres various electronics that are keeping me on the track rather than my driving skill.

The only time driving aid users annoy me is when someone wins with skid recovery on and starts bragging about how awesome they are.

Somebody may have watched too many episodes of Top Gear.

When I host races; every Friday night (if PSN is on), I leave all of the driving aids enabled, so people can use them if they want to. If you don't use them, and you lose...whose fault is that?

With practice and learning to tune my cars to my driving style, I think I'm faster with them turned off and have proved it to myself with lap time comparisons. However, when I got the GTR 'ring trophy, I had TCS set on 2.

So, I have no issues with driving aids, and have used them to my advantage more than once because the objective is to win and get trophies.

 

[watermelon punch]

The only time driving aid users annoy me is when someone wins with skid recovery on and starts bragging about how awesome they are.

Why on earth are you playing with people in races allowing SRF if you don't use it???
You do realize that can be restricted to off, right?

 

[Merquise]

Why on earth are you playing with people in races allowing SRF if you don't use it???
You do realize that can be restricted to off, right?

Because servers that have SRF on useually have less experienced players so it's easier to totally humiliate them Mwuahahahaah !!!!

Ehhrrr.. no seriously, it's easier to find a SRF-on than -off server.
I drive on the SRF-on servers as an extra challenge.
I try to win without SRF. Often in a 10 player server, I have to fight very hard and I can get to 3rd place or so without SRF. okay, not #1, but still beating most players and coming in 3rd at only 1.7 seconds from the leader makes me feel good about myself And all that with SRF off woohoo.
Sometimes I win woohoo !

Also I drive for fun. Most people do I think and would agree to my 'style' of racing. Winning is fun but having a good challenge, a good close race is worth so much more than 'just being #1'...

Speak up if you agree: getting 4th place in a super close battle with a guy on 5th place who has been in you rear view mirror for like 3 laps and trying to out-break you every damn corner is more fun than winning a race with 40 seconds lead.

 

[peterjford]

I don't care what others do, they paid for their game and they can do what they want. I do hope that most people will at least try without aids.

For myself I never use aids on a car that did not come with them (i.e. TCS on the Cobra or Muscle cars) except for ABS 1. And if I ever get a really good set of pedals I will disable that also. I might use TCS on a modern sports car, but only if I really need it. Same with racing tires. I don't use them on road cars or old race cars. I figure the best racing tires of the '60s and earlier are probably like the sports tires, and sports tires on those older cars are like the comforts, so that is what I try to use. I wish they would fix the wear on the racing tires so we could use them properly.

I too love a close race much more than winning by a huge margin. I usually try to use a car/setup that just lets me just barely win. I will also then "detune" it a little and see if I can still win. With online racing I don't care if I come in last, just don't punt me off the track.

 

[Bobby-Vegas]

Its all personal preference and your driving style/skill.. I only use ABS (1), all the other aids interfere with my driving style.

 

[snowdog58]

I don't use the aids, (Except ABS on 1), and i'm not bothered if others do. Different strokes.....

 

[jacksmith]

?

 

[jacksmith]

Driving line: Unrealistic. I dont care if people use this or not. Can be helpfull if you never driven the track before but at a certain point you have to turn it off because it makes you faster having it turned off. Knowing the track, feeeeeling the track is more important than this line.

Traction Control: well.. most modern cars have it. I think I;m faster with TC off than with on, so I don't care if people use it. Only when tire conservation is an issue, eg long races, TC is a good aid to have. I have no problem with people using this aid.

Skid Recovery Force: Now THERE is a rediculous aid.
Imho this 'aid' should be banned from GT5. What does it do? When you loose grip, it instantly adds 30% more grip tot he game physics. It's a downright CHEAT.
And this cheat is so good it's impossible to be faster without SRF on that with SRF off (same player, same car).
I haaaaate it. If you go into a corner waayyy too fast: learn to break earlier !
How are you gonna learn the track with this horrible 'aid' on !
Baaaahh..

Active steering: reduces the steering angle if you're steering too sharply.
Well.. it reduces tire wear a bit. Doesn't make people go faster.
I'd say go for it. New drivers will like this aid, but experienced drivers will not need it anymore. If a corner is 20° just steer 20° and not 90°...
Might be good for DS3 users, but since I got wheel I don't see whey I'd use it.
Don't care if other people do use it.


ASM: I wished all fast people would use this because this 'aid' only slows people down.
Only if you're reeeeaaallly bad at driving you're faster with this aid on than off.
My mom *might* be faster with this thing on that off. But even that is doubtfull.
Please, turn this on so I can lap you more easily

ABS: Well.. I got G25 wheel and it;s im-possible to look at my brakes without locking them up.
Even with 1-1 braking force everything locks up. I'm always using it @ABS1, so I can't blame other people for using it. It does make me go faster. Most modern cars have it. I think this aid is used by like 99% of the GT5 community. I;d say go for it.

I don't think thats the braking force,its brake balance,how much braking power you want to send to the front or rear wheels.For example if its f5 and r5 then the brake balance is even and if its f5 r10 then the rear will have more braking power sent to it than front just like in F1 they have the brake balance next to the left knee of the driver and they adjust it quite oftenly before the corners.

PD should create a seperate brake force mechanism ,like the ferocity of the brake pedal so we can adjust on a scale of 1 to 10 how much brake force we want on all four wheels and then you can adjust the brake balance.
If you want to turn off ABS and believe me it is possible to not lock the brakes then try turning your brake sensitivity low,it helps.

 

[watermelon punch]

@ Merquise

I completely get what YOU are saying.

I agree that a close race is tons more fun than just winning by a long shot. But yeah, tons of people seem to be of the mentality that they just want to win, even if it takes just using a ridiculously over-matched car to do it... which seems goofy to me, and probably you too, but those kinds of people are out there, yes I'm aware.

Anyway, as you probably realized anyway, my question was directed at the person who was complaining about losing against people using SRF when he wasn't.

I mean fine if you're deliberately racing against people using SRF even though you're not, in that case the aid is being used for the purpose it was intended - to give newbies & casual players the ability to play & have fun with pals who are just much more experienced. (More experienced in driving, & importantly, more experienced in TUNING.)

But then you can't go getting mad if you're not winning, & you can't brag about it like you want to. LOL

Anyway, maybe it's just luck... looking at pub lobby races, and depending on which ones you look at, maybe most DO allow SRF. I hadn't thought so. But it could be the races I'm looking at are not the same ones.

But I do know that there are almost NO races posted in the online section of this forum that allow SRF.

 

[Antonisbob]

The only thing I will use is ABS on 1, sometimes TCS 1 too if I find a car easily spins the tires (like something 800 HP+).

 

[W3H5]

Speeds up/breaks in new comers to GT/racing games, mostly slows down most of us regulars.
That's the deal with aids.

 

[IceMan PJN]

I am of course referring to the driving aids and why it is that people say you should turn them off? I personally don't use any of the non-realistic / beginner ones, but I don't see what the problem is with having traction control on the default 5 along with ASM on and ABS set at 1. Does it allow you to get better lap times or is it just supposed to be more of a challenge?

Here's where I stand on driver aids.

They're there for those that need them, and it doesn't matter (at least it shouldn't) to anyone else whether this player or that player uses all, some, or none of them. If you suck, the aids are there to help you, like training wheels on a bicycle.

At some point kids want to remove the training wheels and ride their bikes like a big kid. Riding bikes without training wheels also enables them to outperform bikes with training wheels. Removing the training wheels forces you to become a more skilled driver (better), so it's a good thing in that regard.

Then there's the fact that driving without aids, once you've adapted to doing so, gets you around the track faster. The NASCAR events illustrate that beautifully. The easiest way to beat the events was to disable ABS, because that effectively crippled the ASM which the game forces to be on, and ASM slowed you down. Now the next best thing we can do is turn ABS to 10 and then dial brake bias to 0/0, again in an effort to get around the aids slowing us down.

A car running ABS and TCS will be slower than a car without them, providing that the player has learned to properly drive without them. Growing up and playing without the aids also feels more rewarding, more like you've accomplished something, whereas running driver aids feels (and honestly is) playing on "easy mode".

If players need easy mode, that's what driver aids are there for. We're not all happy with easy mode, though. Some of us want to step up to the next level.