What's the point of Red Bull challenge?

[HeroPride]

They can make a special track just for this car. I know that is a lot but this can be a big change for auto racing.

 

[Instrumental]

Game completion for GT5 is a rather stupid notion, but that's besides the point. The point is the comparison between wheel and controller.
Nobody with a controller can hope to pilot the X2010 consistently succesfully. So why then should the challenge be made easy enough?

I'll give you this though, a separate challenge for wheel and controller users would have been more fitting.

Why is that a stupid notion? They even have a percentage completion stat to track it. I can pilot the X2010 consistently fairly well, but since the limitations in functionality of the controller keep users from doing maneuvers at the same speed and precision as the wheel, I cannot go as fast. Why should the challenge be made easy enough? Because the controller is the primary means of use for a PS3 and it comes with the system. If wheels came with the system and were the primary means of playing videogames I'd have no issue but designing a game that can't be completed fully with the main controls is poor game design plain and simple. Having a separate challenge for DS3 and wheel users would be perfectly acceptable though I agree.

 

[tezster]

It's probably more simple than that. They may have come up with the look and "what if" tech and PD just change a few numbers to give the tires super glue grip. (kind of like a cheat) A clue of this is this car has more grip on grass than most cars on pavement in the GT5. Sims have enough trouble trying to simulate tires using well known data I seriously doubt they wasted too much time trying to simulate a fantasy car. This car belongs in Sci Fi just like Wormholes and traveling at light speed.

Both the concept and design of the X2010 were already in place well before Newey had a look at it. What PD basically had a chance to do was show him what they came up with, at which point Newey looked at it to some degree and offered his own insights and suggestions i.e. using a fan to generate downforce.

Think of it as a thought experiment on designing the fastest car possible using currently available technology.

Of course they're not going to do any rigorous testing on the design - it's for a damn game.

 

[Nerdbuster]

GTShadowKing

I don't think that the X2010 is bad, it's actually fun to drive often
But the Sebastian Vettel Challenge...that is stupid, because of a simple reason, you can not win it with a DS3. IT'S NOT FAIR
Do I have to buy a good wheel just to win that s**t? I don't think so

The Sebastian Vettel Challenge wasn't a big trouble for me. It sure was difficult to gold all. But the fact is everything, the car , the tracks and the racer are all real put into the game. However the X1, this car isn't real. It's a Sci-fi fantasy on display. I have absolutely no desire for this kind of car and any racing challenge based on it. I was trying so hard to win each race so that I could win or buy REAL CARS like Ferrari F40, Ford GT40 and McLaren F1. Red Bull Challenge is unlocked at the level 30, showing how important it is in the game. But the truth is GT series earned its fame by being a very realistic driving simulation game, not by being a sci-fi racing game. If X1 is future of how GT series will be, then I won't buy it anymore.

 

[StevenDunn99]

But the fact is everything, the car , the tracks and the racer are all real put into the game. However the X1, this car isn't real. It's a Sci-fi fantasy on display. I have absolutely no desire for this kind of car and any racing challenge based on it. I was trying so hard to win each race so that I could win or buy REAL CARS like Ferrari F40, Ford GT40 and McLaren F1. Red Bull Challenge is unlocked at the level 30, showing how important it is in the game. But the truth is GT series earned its fame by being a very realistic driving simulation game, not by being a sci-fi racing game. If X1 is future of how GT series will be, then I won't buy it anymore.

My sentiments entirely.

 

[chippy1000]

Well if realism is so important to you, you could always just not do the Vettel challenge and not drive the X1 ever, also dont ever drive the FGT because that is not real either.

 

[StevenDunn99]

Well if realism is so important to you, you could always just not do the Vettel challenge and not drive the X1 ever, also dont ever drive the FGT because that is not real either.

You are missing the point, GT is supposed to be a SIM racer so it should just not be there.

And, fwiw I have only used the FGT for the FGT championship and the XI for one race as practice for the Vettel Challenge.

 

[iLex]

With the mindset many people seem to have, no. Seemingly everyone has to be able to gold everything and preferably not have to break a sweat at that. Phrases such as "not being fast enough", "needing more practice" and "admitting something is too hard for one's skill level" aren't really fashionable nowadays.

Sadly, I am not fast enough to gold it and even though I might get there with a lot (a lot!) more practice I think this is way too hard for my skill level
I did bronze the challenge though and haven't used the X2010 since.

Slightly more on topic:
If the performance of the X2010 is physically possile (in the near future) and can be driven by a human, I think it is very nice that PD explored this and put it in the game. It kinda spoils the rest of the cars for me, hence I haven't driven it since I got it, but I still think it is nice to have the boundaries of racing explored.

If however this is nothing more than a burnout type insane car with no link to reality to give this game a 'special element' they could talk about in Top Gear Magazine I think it shouldn't be in this game and they might as well put transformers in GT8

Just my 2c.

 

[chippy1000]

You are missing the point, GT is supposed to be a SIM racer so it should just not be there.

And, fwiw I have only used the FGT for the FGT championship and the XI for one race as practice for the Vettel Challenge.

Well the way I see it, it is a SIM racer/game, but the X1 is just and added extra, you know for a bit of fun, thats what games are for aren't they. Some people take it way too seriously (not directed at you stevedunn) and need to relax a little. I cant believe the amount of complaining that goes on about it considering the price was only 75% of a regular PS3 game.

 

[iLex]

Well the way I see it, it is a SIM racer/game, but the X1 is just and added extra, you know for a bit of fun, thats what games are for aren't they. Some people take it way too seriously (not directed at you stevedunn) and need to relax a little. I cant believe the amount of complaining that goes on about it considering the price was only 75% of a regular PS3 game.

You may be right about this. However, having a car like this in the game and hearing the producer talk about a 'free roam mode' and all other new elements that influence the gaming experience get people scared
A lot of the players here have been playing GT since GT1 and they all see that in the great evolution of the GT series there have been some strange creations.
There is not that much complaining about this car. There is a discussion about whether or not it fits in the series (and what the boudaries of the GT series are/should be). I think most of the people who think it doesn't fit in the series still don't really care about it being there. It is a bit like the rally discussions that were going on in GT4.

 

[kitchenboy3]

Let's step away for a moment from the argument as to wether the car is 'real' wether or not it is feasible or even wether or not any living beeing can drive it.
I think the idea was to demonstrate of what is POSSIBLE, no more, no less.
This believe is reinforced by the fact that there is only the actual Challenge that concerns the X2010 and not an entire race series.
let us not take this thing too serious and appreciate it for what it is: an example of human ingenuity.

 

[chippy1000]

I see your point as I have been playing since GT1 myself, I guess they just have to try different things to see if they fit or not, I mean it would be far less fun if every instalment was the same as the last one with better graphics and a few new cars.

And as for the free roam mode I don't think that could be such a bad idea as it would make a good change to just fool about sometimes when you don't feel like doing the same race you have done 10 times in a row trying to level up, for example have you been to the Top Gear track in online mode, they always seem to be full of people just enjoying a bit of space to mess about, nothing wrong with that if you ask me.

 

[iLex]

Let's step away for a moment from the argument as to wether the car is 'real' wether or not it is feasible or even wether or not any living beeing can drive it.
I think the idea was to demonstrate of what is POSSIBLE, no more, no less.
This believe is reinforced by the fact that there is only the actual Challenge that concerns the X2010 and not an entire race series.
let us not take this thing too serious and appreciate it for what it is: an example of human ingenuity.

Could you explain what you mean by possible?
Everything is possible in the world of videogames, so there is no challenge there.
Isn't the challenge is to make something that is outrageous but still possible in the real world?

I see your point as I have been playing since GT1 myself, I guess they just have to try different things to see if they fit or not, I mean it would be far less fun if every instalment was the same as the last one with better graphics and a few new cars.

And as for the free roam mode I don't think that could be such a bad idea as it would make a good change to just fool about sometimes when you don't feel like doing the same race you have done 10 times in a row trying to level up, for example have you been to the Top Gear track in online mode, they always seem to be full of people just enjoying a bit of space to mess about, nothing wrong with that if you ask me.

I agree. I am not really opposed to that. I just meant that a new addition to the game could mean a (slightly) new direction as Rally and B-spec have shown.

 

[kitchenboy3]

]Could you explain what you mean by possible? [/COLOR]
Everything is possible in the world of videogames, so there is no challenge there.
Isn't the challenge is to make something that is outrageous but still possible in the real world?




I agree. I am not really opposed to that. I just meant that a new addition to the game could mean a (slightly) new direction as Rally and B-spec have shown.

I mean possible in real life, now, with todays technology. NOT in video games, call it a Design study if you wish.
My point was that I don't think people should attach too much importance to this thing, it's just a bit of frivolity

 

[Pezzarinho17]

I understand the thought process, the mechanics and that all the correct calculations have been done, but there is 1 thing they haven't said anything about - the tyres.

Comparing it to an F1 car (I think they used Bridgestone tyres from the F1 car for the data...), the main difference is of course the fan, and the much more efficient aerodynamics / downforce the car generates. For all of this 'suction' to the road though, it is still relying on the same amount of rubber as an F1 car. Current F1 cars do not corner as quickly as this thing, and yet they don't think these speeds would have a VASTLY negative affect on the tyres? This thing would DESTROY them within half a lap. So you say put harder tyres on? To cope with this car they need to be MUCH harder which will of course reduce grip further...

Like I say, I get it but for all the work and calculations that have gone into it, I don't see it ACTUALLY working and the real world performance would be far off this... I do hope they make it though!

 

[chippy1000]

To say that the X1 one would destroy it's tyres in half a lap is just so rediculous, where do you get that info it's just plucked out of thin air. F1 tyres ARE designed to deteriorate like they do so their manditory pit stop serves a purpose. When Bridgestone got it wrong, as they sometimes did the option tyre has lasted until the end of the race when they would only stop because it was manditory.
Of course the X1 would put tyres under considerably more stress than an F1 car but to say they they wouldn't last for more than a lap is just ludicris.

 

[chaosdd]

Back to the question from the topic: Well, the point is the challenge...
If you say the car is ridiculously fast and maybe undrivable IRL, you are probably right. However, why not making such experiment?!
I found the challenge great fun.
In the same time, I don't see myself driving the X2010 outside of the challenge, since I don't exactly consider this driving. You are navigating this thing, there's no car control in the real sense.

Wrap up: the point is the challenge and the virtual fastest racer possible. The challenge is fun. However, I don't think that's the point of the game and wont be using the cars outside of the challenge.

My opinion.

 

[Wolf-M]

With the mindset many people seem to have, no. Seemingly everyone has to be able to gold everything and preferably not have to break a sweat at that. Phrases such as "not being fast enough", "needing more practice" and "admitting something is too hard for one's skill level" aren't really fashionable nowadays.

👍

After all it's only part of a game. Despite its claims as a driving simulator, let's not forget that it is nothing but a video game.

 

[Skin]

Just how "real" do people want the car simulation "racing game" to be?

How about 23hrs and 30mins of Le Mans or the ring, only for a mechanical failure to take you out of the race at the opposite end of the circuit?

...no thanks!

Or perhaps several ignition coil packs failing - simultaneously - on your road car, and you have to nurse it to the end of the race with the dual-shock/force-feedback going nuts at the juddering?

 

[Nerdbuster]

The Sebastian Vettel Challenge wasn't a big trouble for me. It sure was difficult to gold all. But the fact is everything, the car , the tracks and the racer are all real put into the game. However the X1, this car isn't real. It's a Sci-fi fantasy on display. I have absolutely no desire for this kind of car and any racing challenge based on it. I was trying so hard to win each race so that I could win or buy REAL CARS like Ferrari F40, Ford GT40 and McLaren F1. Red Bull Challenge is unlocked at the level 30, showing how important it is in the game. But the truth is GT series earned its fame by being a very realistic driving simulation game, not by being a sci-fi racing game. If X1 is future of how GT series will be, then I won't buy it anymore.

Ok, there was little confusion in my statement. I got confused with the Loeb challenge with the Sebastian Vettel Challenge. It took me little while to realize that by Sebastian Vettel Challenge it means the Red Bull Challenge. So you can ignore my yapping about Sebastian Vettel Challenge.

Anyway I can totally agree that GT series should persue changes in every series in order to stay fresh. However, the X1 and the Red Bull Challenge seem to be really bad choice. They are neither a good refreshment nor a small part to ignore. The X1 is so out of GT series' character so it souldn't be treated seriouly. Unfortunately in the game, the part the X1 occupies is quite big. The Red Bull Challenge gets unlocked at the level 30 with 3 challenges. And for every gold you achieve you end up getting half a million credits. For comparison, 6hrs long 1000km Suzuka only gives you 300k. I can only conclude to the point that the game producers were really serious about putting the X1 and the Red Bull Challenge in the game. And I have to tell them that their experiment is a complete failure. I don't want to see anything like the X1 and the Red Bull Challenge in the next series unless it's real.

 

[MiseryStreak]

Just how "real" do people want the car simulation "racing game" to be?

How about 23hrs and 30mins of Le Mans or the ring, only for a mechanical failure to take you out of the race at the opposite end of the circuit?

...no thanks!

Or perhaps several ignition coil packs failing - simultaneously - on your road car, and you have to nurse it to the end of the race with the dual-shock/force-feedback going nuts at the juddering?

Brilliant post. It's a simulator, not reality, otherwise you'd have to buy new tyres every race for a start and forget taking your TVR into an endurance race.

If you don't like the X2010 then don't drive it, why is nobody complaining about the disgusting electric road bollock you are forced to drive for the Miev Seasonal event that can't even be tuned so you have to endure 5 laps at a constant 70mph with a high pitched whine in your ear? THAT car doesn't belong in GT, the X2010 is great fun and improves reaction times, once you've done a lap of the 'Ring in that with no aids and without crashing you can do it in anything.

Of course the G-forces would put an incredible strain on the driver, thats why this 'study' is important, it demonstrates that we are already at the point where the human body is the limiting factor in racing. We will have to grow hardier 'Avatars' for the F1 of the future...

 

[Skin]

...with a high pitched whine in your ear? ...

You've been racing with my girlfriend in the room?


Personally, I'm just glad they *stopped* at the X2010.
Think about it... It's a racing sandbox. They've already set the physics engine variables up and they configure each vehicle with it's own set of parameters and let *us* let them loose on the tracks.

The X2010 is the extreme end of what they gave us, but they could've taken it further and even more insane. It's juuuust about driveable for most people with some practice - but click that puppy up a notch and it could do 40mph+ with downforce so intense it literally tears up the track on a hot day.

If it was actually so fast it was undrivable to even GTPlanet members and F1 racing drivers, I wonder then what people would think of it.

 

[Wolf-M]

Anyway I can totally agree that GT series should persue changes in every series in order to stay fresh. However, the X1 and the Red Bull Challenge seem to be really bad choice. They are neither a good refreshment nor a small part to ignore. The X1 is so out of GT series' character so it souldn't be treated seriouly. Unfortunately in the game, the part the X1 occupies is quite big. The Red Bull Challenge gets unlocked at the level 30 with 3 challenges. And for every gold you achieve you end up getting half a million credits. For comparison, 6hrs long 1000km Suzuka only gives you 300k. I can only conclude to the point that the game producers were really serious about putting the X1 and the Red Bull Challenge in the game. And I have to tell them that their experiment is a complete failure. I don't want to see anything like the X1 and the Red Bull Challenge in the next series unless it's real.

Then I don't understand, why can't you just skip it? Because of the experience and credits the events bring?

But isn't the challenge itself considered "additional" to the main A-spec and online experience?

Even if the producers were serious in bringing this "paper concept car" to the game, what's the problem of that? It's a theoretical concept, if you like it, drive it; if you don't, just ignore it! Simple as that!

 

[Nerdbuster]

Then I don't understand, why can't you just skip it? Because of the experience and credits the events bring?

But isn't the challenge itself considered "additional" to the main A-spec and online experience?

Even if the producers were serious in bringing this "paper concept car" to the game, what's the problem of that? It's a theoretical concept, if you like it, drive it; if you don't, just ignore it! Simple as that!

Well, I'm a kind of person who doesn't leave my stuff undone. And yes as I got rid of the X1 after finishing the Red Bull Challenge, I don't have to care about them anymore in the game. But I'm making my opinion about what's the fault in the GT 5 and what shouldn't be repeated in GT 6. If you don't like my opinion, you can just ignore it and skip.

 

[deftonesmx17]

All those concept cars and cars that are never put into production or racing should be gone.

I've always had an issue with the ridiculous amount of concepts in the GT series. For example, I do not need the GT-R Concept and GT-R Black Mask since the actual GT-R and GT-R SpecV are in the game.

As for the Red Bull X2010, it has no place in this game. If PD wanted to do a theoretical car for racing, make a theoretical racing game instead of including it in your “simulation”.

 

[Nerdbuster]

I've always had an issue with the ridiculous amount of concepts in the GT series. For example, I do not need the GT-R Concept and GT-R Black Mask since the actual GT-R and GT-R SpecV are in the game.

As for the Red Bull X2010, it has no place in this game. If PD wanted to do a theoretical car for racing, make a theoretical racing game instead of including it in your “simulation”.

Absolutely, I couldn't agree more. Instead of all those nonsensical cars, PD should bring Porsches.

 

[Tvensky]

agree, I hate all this FAKE stuff.. they didnt have to create this challange with fake car.. they could just sell it or win it, not pointless racing.. I would better be driving in some old F1 car which would be more fun and challenging for sure!

 

[Zoom!Zoom!]

Just how "real" do people want the car simulation "racing game" to be?

How about 23hrs and 30mins of Le Mans or the ring, only for a mechanical failure to take you out of the race at the opposite end of the circuit?

...no thanks!

Or perhaps several ignition coil packs failing - simultaneously - on your road car, and you have to nurse it to the end of the race with the dual-shock/force-feedback going nuts at the juddering?

No one wants the game to be 100% real like crashing into a wall you can get hurt but at the same time I don't want Gt5 to be something like Wipeout or NFS either. One problem past Gt series as well as other race games is the "driving on rails" feel. Sadly X 2010 has this "driving on rails very fast" feel to me. The biggest challenge of the game comes from the most arcade car of the game.

 

[Nerdbuster]

The biggest challenge of the game comes from the most arcade car of the game.

Exactly. That's why I can't shut up about the X1. I really wonder who's the guy came up with an idea of putting this piece of junk in the game. If I were a chief director of the GT series, I would kick his ass until his ass looking like Red Bull.

 

[nioxic]

well isnt the X2010 just made ingame, because it wouldnt make any sense to make that car IRL?

not that its not possiple.

i mean, i certainly wouldnt drive it. its horrifying (IRL I mean, ofc.. 300 km/h in a turn? hell no)

its not like it couldnt get more horsepower though.. many cars have more (some car i saw in 5th gear had around 2K. 1 sec to 60mph and it was roadlegal!!)