Whats with my Escudo?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Time_Attack
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If you look at the Escudo's power curve, you will understand why it fails at top gear. You barely get power until you are about 2500 rpms from redline. You have to adjust the trasmisssion to get the most out of it, but you will still have dificulties reaching the speeds usually reserved to 1000hp cars.
 
Time_Attack
I almost agree with him. This thing is awful. It has decent acceleration up to about 180mph and then there is nothing but a huge face plant. I should have bought the touring car I was looking at.
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There's nothing wrong the with the Escudo. Drop the power down, and the curve should get a bit better, and you'll be able to enter lower PP races to boot. I don't really think there are many cars in the game that can be outright labeled "not worth it".

The Escudo might have a more realistic top speed, but I'm still suspicious of the cornering.
 
The car has 735PP bone stock. With the turbo its max PP is 750. The power band according to the graph is unchanged with the the turbo kit installed.
 
I'm talking about the restrictor. You should be able to go as low as ~ 400 hp, depending on how good/bad your oil is.
 
Setting the restrictor to 50% gives you the widest possible powerband. You'll produce max power over the widest range of RPM.
 
Dave A
Downforce is not drag
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Exorcet
It's induced drag. Though what you said is true, same downforce =/= same drag.
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Yeah, all downforce is not created equal. If you look at the spoiler on a NASCAR Sprint Cup car, it does manage to create some downforce, but it's done via the most primitive means ever devised in the automotive world - a flat board duct taped to the back of the car. It's just a wall that air blows against, basically. It works, but creates a high amount of drag relative to equal amounts of downforce created by more aerodynamic wings.

Now, it can be argued that wings can also have high drag, and they can when they have a high angle of attack, like you typically see on a Formula One car, but they don't need to have a high angle of attack. You can have a wing with a lower angle and this hypothetical wing can generate equal amounts of downforce to the board taped to the back of a Sprint Cup car, but do it with notably less drag than the Cup car. For a Cup car to generate the thousands of pounds of downforce seen on a Formula One car, it would need to have a barn door mounted upright to the rear of the car, and a barn door isn't very aerodynamic, as alluded to in previous replies.

So, long story short, two cars with equal downforce can have very different drag figures.

Also, it should be noted that drag doesn't come from downforce-generating bodywork alone. Using F1 cars as an example yet again, their drag is hurt not only by all the downforce-generating bodywork, but also by their open wheels. Forms on a car that have nothing at all to do with downforce can also contribute to drag.
 
Time_Attack
I've already done all the rally races.
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And now you're mad that your rally car isn't as useful on the track? You realize that you can do as many rally events as you want, right? There are these things called Arcade Mode, Online, Track Editor.... You just might want to broaden your horizons. There's more to rally than the Special Event.
 
RacerPaul
You bought it, thats whats with it :lol:

Its a vile monstrosity, like the Chapparal vile boxy thing :yuck:

Delete it at once, you'll feel much better

Those things just soil your garage
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Are you crazy? You're saying he should delete a car he paid nearly 2000000 credits for?
You obviously haven't played any GT before GT5 because then you would know it's an absolute legend in the GT series.
 
Thats somewhat how I was expecting it to be in this game. I wasn't expecting GT2/3 performance but I still felt a little let down. Its a blast on the ring especially in tight corners but then you get to the back straight and you feel stupid that your 1000hp car won't do more than 190.

I play online and use the track editor. The track editor only ever gives me triangle shaped tracks. I wish online mode had point to point rally especially on tarmac. Thats probably all I'd ever do if it was available.
 
boredgunner
The Escudo will dominate any touring car on almost any course. In fact, it will beat almost any car on most courses, the exceptions being F1 cars and LMP cars (80s and newer).
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The Escudo can quite easily beat LMP cars. It corners even better than them.
 
Why do you expect a car that's been mounted with a wing the size of Pittsburgh to be able to have some crazy top speed? It's a rally car not a Veyron.
 
The veyron which is more than twice the weight has a cd of .41 and will top 230mph. My thinking is that at less than half the weight even if this thing has a much higher cd the power is roughly the same. Given that the weight is less it will take less power to move it through the air at the same speed. Now with the higher cd this should roughly balance out. I don't expect this thing to touch the same 250+ that the veyron will touch but I still think that there is a lot left on the table.
 
You are forgetting about the massive wing. I'm not going to give you a lesson on physics, but let's just leave it at the fact that there is more to consider than power and weight. GT5 has an updated physics engine from past GT games and it will not allow the Escudo to go the insane speeds which were previously attainable.
 
This much I understand, but we have no numbers to show how the game applies this or what the values of the escudo are. A large semi truck has a cd of roughly .80. The escudo being long and low is surely more aerodynamic than a semi truck. I'm just guesstimating here of course.
 
Time_Attack
I play online and use the track editor. The track editor only ever gives me triangle shaped tracks. I wish online mode had point to point rally especially on tarmac. Thats probably all I'd ever do if it was available.
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You might need to experiment more with different settings using the track editor as it can deliver much more variety (even when generating online with more limited options) than only triangular shapes.
If you create a very long track and race online for only one lap you could pretend I guess it's a point to point stage, although that's hardly ideal I know.
As for the Escudo, don't know why, even if it were possible to do it in GT5, you'd want a Pikes Peak hillclimbing rally car specifically designed only for that purpose to reach the speeds you mentioned anyway but maybe that's just me.
 
Time_Attack
The veyron which is more than twice the weight has a cd of .41 and will top 230mph. My thinking is that at less than half the weight even if this thing has a much higher cd the power is roughly the same. Given that the weight is less it will take less power to move it through the air at the same speed. Now with the higher cd this should roughly balance out. I don't expect this thing to touch the same 250+ that the veyron will touch but I still think that there is a lot left on the table.
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Actually, weight will have very little impact on top speed.

As many here have stated, it has almost everything to do with drag. I am guessing that GT has encorparated the Coefficient of drag (cd) into its physics engine. Its just not listed somewhere for us to see.

It seems to me that GT5 has modled drag pretty well based on the effect on top speed on some of these boxes. The fact that the Escudo does not go 240mph is proof that they are doing it right.
 
Do you have tips for the track editor? I usually set it on 10 difficulty with 5 complexity or however its worded. Even with difficulty seemingly maxed its still mostly worthless tracks.

The issue of top speed for me if that this car isn't seeing dirt. I race 99.999% on tarmac. If I am going to race this car against other 750pp cars like the pug 908 185-190mph isn't cutting it. If I could just touch 200 I'd feel better.
 
Time_Attack
Do you have tips for the track editor? I usually set it on 10 difficulty with 5 complexity or however its worded. Even with difficulty seemingly maxed its still mostly worthless tracks.
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You mean online don't you? the 5 you use refers to the amount of sectors (7 max) I think and 10 to the corner density (for lack of a better word) per sector.
From what I experienced using it, if you want a complex track you're better off using only a few sectors and a high density of corners, for example 2 or 3 sectors only and a high corner density and for a longer track more sectors and perhaps slightly lower corner density.
Although I might be wrong, as the online options are even less than when making a track in the offline track editor beforehand, so they're probably even more random.
I've however used the online generate option only a few times so far but none were simple triangles, maybe just vary the settings until you stumble upon something worth driving on (as that's basically all it is, nice it's there though).
That's how I use it anyway, there's a section on this forum dedicated to the course creator where you might find more useful tips, and/or actual methods or analyzis on how it works, than I can provide. :)
 
It wont go past 200mph.. I remember back in GT3 where you could get almost 1900BHP out of that thing.. Now I never tried this but..


I don't think this was intended lol..
 
Time_Attack
The veyron which is more than twice the weight has a cd of .41 and will top 230mph. My thinking is that at less than half the weight even if this thing has a much higher cd the power is roughly the same. Given that the weight is less it will take less power to move it through the air at the same speed. Now with the higher cd this should roughly balance out. I don't expect this thing to touch the same 250+ that the veyron will touch but I still think that there is a lot left on the table.
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Power to reach a specific Max velocity = air_density*CD*frontal_area*Max_velocity*Max_velocity*Max_velocity

Weight doesn't show up anywhere, CD*area has a huge effect.

Consider that the 500 hp Viper SRT-10 (CD = .39) can reach 195 mph while the 600 hp Viper ACR (CD ~ .45-.55) can't break 180.
 
Think about it in simple terms. The rear spoiler of a Veyron produces the same braking force at high speed as the brakes of a family car. Now the wing of the Escudo is much larger than the wing of the Veyron, so is acting like an airbrake the entire time (even in it's lowest trim setting). If you removed the rear wing I'd expect the car to become significantly faster.



Villeneuve's Ferrari in this video has it's rear wing removed for the same reason (it has an effect on acceleration as well). I think the other cars had much smaller rear wings than the Ferrari's used.
 
The best I ever got out of it in GT3 under normal settings was 313mph. I never tried that glitch but I was aware of it.
 
g0ld
The Escudo can quite easily beat LMP cars. It corners even better than them.
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Cars do not simply corner "Better" it doesnt make sense. The Escudo handles much more EASILY than most of the lmp cars, with a tendency more to under than oversteer. Its a brilliant machine, and the HUGE downforce is, as the 2J and Lotus f1 fan car and the X2010 have proven, a priceless asset to its handling ease. However, on a tight, technical track where the Escudo is shown at its best, i maul lap times i set in the suzuki with laps in my 787B.

I love the Escudo. I have one in every GT Game its appeared in... I want it premium more than the Veyron, as its waay more important to the series. Id say its right up there with the R34 Skylines...
 
Summary of why Escudo won't go over 300km/h so happily:
Huge drag, wind at speeds of above 300km/h plays a huge roll in car's top speed;
2.5L engine fitted with a huge turbo means enormous turbo lag and unusable powerband for top speed.

The Suzuki Escudo is a hill climbing car, it's made to break records at Pikes Peak. It's not made for top speed. It doesn't matter that it has 1000+hp when tuned.
In GT2 the physics were nowhere close to GT5's level (as we all know), Escudo was the X2010 of GT2. A dirt car which left all purpose-built race machines in the dust.
Times change, so do games (and it's physics) - Escudo isn't what it was.
Still, it's a worthy and nostalgic piece that I happily have in my garage.
 
This thread makes me all nostalgic over the GT2 Escudo... THAT was a fun car to drive! I loved messing around to see how fast it'd go. I haven't tried in in GT5 yet but I guess it DOES become apparent that realistic foes not always equal fun! Somehow it loses some of the epic god-likeness when real-world physics are introduced.

I think the title of 'Ultimate Cheatmobile Gifted To Us By PD' has passed from the Escudo to the X2010... too bad, because at least the Escudo was actually raced.
 

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