What's with the framerate?PS4 

  • Thread starter Sander 001
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It's pretty easy to see the difference between replays and spectating... Start a race, retire to the pit box, and press Monitor. You are now watching a nice 60fps race (or close-ish!). Save the replay to that race, and watch it again. 30fps hell!

I notice it mostly on panned trackside shots (which is most of them!) as the background judders around. In cockpit or car views, it's not so bad, but try to watch a race replay like it was a TV broadcast, there is no hiding that 30fps judder.

EDIT... BTW, please note I'm using a big 4K TV, so if you are content with a smaller 1080P's look, please remember, YMMV...

Thanks, American. I'll try that trick, see if they left it in.
 
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simsimsheree
It's pretty easy to see the difference between replays and spectating... Start a race, retire to the pit box, and press Monitor. You are now watching a nice 60fps race (or close-ish!). Save the replay to that race, and watch it again. 30fps hell!

I notice it mostly on panned trackside shots (which is most of them!) as the background judders around. In cockpit or car views, it's not so bad, but try to watch a race replay like it was a TV broadcast, there is no hiding that 30fps judder.

EDIT... BTW, please note I'm using a big 4K TV, so if you are content with a smaller 1080P's look, please remember, YMMV...

Thanks, American. I'll try that trick, see if they left it in.
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Wow just tried the go to pit box and monitor a race, wow 60fps smooth incredible trackside views, why cant the replays be that good...
 
If you start a career race and see something horrible like 15fps just restart the game. Figured this out after some nauseating sessions. Happens most often if you run a time trial to practice then load up the same circuit and car in career. It will be an obvious horrid stutter. Every time that happens now I restart the game and voila its back to a smooth frame-rate again!
 
Sloppy Shades
If you start a career race and see something horrible like 15fps just restart the game. Figured this out after some nauseating sessions. Happens most often if you run a time trial to practice then load up the same circuit and car in career. It will be an obvious horrid stutter. Every time that happens now I restart the game and voila its back to a smooth frame-rate again!
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Some of my quaily sessions are the same but I am hosting and do not want to exit lucky I wait it out until the race starts and it seems fine(pro/4ktv/highres)
 
The_American
Start watching a replay. Hit Pause and get to Options menu. Come back to the replay, unpause whatever. When you resume watching it should be uncapped fps. It was a bug but I think Ian said he might let it go since the benefit was generally positively received.
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Can you explain what you mean when you say get to options? please, how to i cant find any option in replay pause...

I can however whilst in a race, retire to pitbox, then click monitor and hit L1 and choose a car to watch, and that is super smooth 60fps looking trackside views, it looks brilliant. Just wish the replays were.
 
imported_rik19
Wow just tried the go to pit box and monitor a race, wow 60fps smooth incredible trackside views, why cant the replays be that good...
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Well, to a certain extent, I can understand... The game isn't running YOUR car's physics, so there's a fair bit of headroom you don't have when running a replay and you are on track.

But it would be nice to know for sure if you can work around the 30fps cap. I am still not quite sure the steps The American was talking about.

Nowadays, because IMHO SMS have been incredibly lazy and set up no cut scenes, or really, any kind of eye candy at all when you aren't on track, I like to set up races that will be visually sweet (accelerated time is nice) and interesting cars, then retire and monitor, then just have it on my TV as wallpaper. Keep the pad handy to change car focus from time to time, or go from trackside to in car, and it's pretty interesting just to watch. Plus you tend to get a good idea of where the AI do stuff that's crazy, and stay clear of that place in future!
 
I think the replays in PCars2 are beautiful on the PS4 Pro and a 4K TV. My only complaint is that when pausing the replay it jumps forward a few frames before the still shot. It would be great to have this fixed.
 
You can creep forward or backwards on the paused replay using the accelerator and brakes (iirc). Not sure if you can get single frame accuracy, but generally I can jog a paused picture into where I need it... you just need the lightest of touches on the controls.

And yes, on a 4K/PS4Pro, other than framerate issues, replays are gorgeous. Maybe not up to GTS levels, but eye candy is their focus...
 
simsimsheree
You can creep forward or backwards on the paused replay using the accelerator and brakes (iirc). Not sure if you can get single frame accuracy, but generally I can jog a paused picture into where I need it... you just need the lightest of touches on the controls.

And yes, on a 4K/PS4Pro, other than framerate issues, replays are gorgeous. Maybe not up to GTS levels, but eye candy is their focus...
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Oh, I was only meaning that the pause function is not well optimised because whenever pausing in a replay it jumps forward. It just looks kind of rough when it does that but it’s not a major issue for me, just a slight niggle. I am very pleasantly surprised at how good the replays look on PS4 Pro after returning to PCars 2 after many months of not playing it. Sure, they are not as nice as GT Sports, but that game is the gold standard for replay graphics on console atm.
 
The major issue with PC2 console replays isn't how they look...

It's how short they are.

SMS made the decision to keep them in the cloud, not save locally, and unfortunately (or stupidly, I guess it depends on how accountable you like to hold SMS!), cloud saves on console are a fraction of what PC saves can be. So, better have a short race, or you can't save a replay for the whole thing, on console..

This drastically hampers race hosts and stewards, who on console can't review racing incidents on longer races. Not to mention regular players who just want a complete replay of a race.

Other games don't suffer this, so I'm afraid the 'console limitation' excuse so often trotted out doesn't work here. This, IMO, is SMS unwilling to put in the extra time to code for consoles to do a local save to work around the PC code. It disappoints me how often SMS are willing to impose arbitrary limitations on the console version (that other games don't have, so not really a console issue) because they just can't be bothered with making the console port fully functional. Things they know full well if they left as badly implemented on the PC version, players would leave in droves for games without these silly restrictions...

It's tough to hold much hope out for the future, this is an issue that plagued PC1 as well, allowed to plague PC2 even worse (the PC1 save limit was twice as long as the PC2 limit). At times, it is hard to think of us console players as little more than a cash cow for the PC version. It would be nice if the dollars we plowed into the game went towards solving OUR issues, rather than developing another PC game we can't play as well.
 
I’m fairly sure that the Codemasters F1 games don’t save full race replays. I race 50% race distance but I remember the 100% races I did in the past suffered from the lack of a full replay. Somebody else may be able to confirm this.
As an avid watcher of all my races in replay mode it is a somewhat jarring to have the replay end part way through the race in PCars2.
 
Somewhat off the topic of frame rates but...
simsimsheree
SMS made the decision to keep them in the cloud, not save locally
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I've seen you state this previously, but it's incorrect. Now I think you've got a PS4 so if it were true and you hadn't got PS plus you wouldn't be able to save at all. The replay files save onto the PS4's hard drive not "the cloud". Try disconnecting your console from the internet, it'll still save and any replays you have will still be available.

I've just looked at mine and there's 700Mb saved to the hard drive and 19Mb saved online - a couple of backup configuration files I saved manually. I've switched off the automatic backup feature.

The problem (if you want to call it that) is that the PC2 replays are quite large in size so quickly fill up the allotted space - which I think is a Sony imposed 1Gb*. In fact if it was saving online it would take awhile due to the large sizes involved. A 30 minute race is nearing 200Mb (PC1 was probably smaller). The other problem is that this allotted space also includes photos, ghosts and setup information.

Other games probably suffer from this restriction but have much smaller save files so it doesn't become apparent.

With Plus you could upload any you want to keep in particular and then perhaps delete them locally - using the cloud save to your advantage.

*The limit is probably related to the Plus online backup feature and is there whether you use it or not.


Right, back to frame rates. Which I don't really have much of a problem with.
 
I had a reply on the SMS site a long time ago from a dev where he said it was to do with the cloud size. That was good enough for me.

This issue doesn't affect GTS, saves can be hours long. It's hard to believe that, if GTS faces the same cloud limitations as other games, that they are THAT much more efficient in their replay storage data. And, if they are, SMS should copy it!

Ultimately, it doesn't matter if it's cloud, phase of the moon or what Ian Bell had for lunch. It is unacceptable for a game that calls itself 'sim' to be unable to save a race length replay. It is even more unacceptable that the previous game had the same problem, which is now twice as bad. It's 3 1/2 years since PC1 launched, and we are further away, not closer to a resolution of this fundamental flaw.

As I said above, if this limitation were imposed on PC players, they would leave en masse for a more 'pro' game. And we wonder why the console side hasn't taken off?
 
I use a PS4 Pro and have never noticed any problems with frame rate - perhaps I don't know what to look for!

simsimsheree
The major issue with PC2 console replays isn't how they look...

It's how short they are.

SMS made the decision to keep them in the cloud, not save locally, and unfortunately (or stupidly, I guess it depends on how accountable you like to hold SMS!), cloud saves on console are a fraction of what PC saves can be. So, better have a short race, or you can't save a replay for the whole thing, on console..

This drastically hampers race hosts and stewards, who on console can't review racing incidents on longer races. Not to mention regular players who just want a complete replay of a race. This is an issue that plagued PC1 as well, allowed to plague PC2 even worse (the PC1 save limit was twice as long as the PC2 limit).
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I have 5 races currently saved each of 30 minutes (between 32 and 35 minutes to be exact). I am sure this is the same number that I used to be able to save on PC1. I host 2 x 30 minute races a week and don't have a problem saving these providing that I remember to delete a couple of races a week to free up space - presumably I could copy them onto an external hard drive if I wanted.

I don't know what the limit on race length is for a save - hopefully its at least 60 minutes as I will be doing some double length races later in the year.

I used to be able to save more races on GT6, but accept that PD probably has more staff working just on replay's than the whole of the SMS staff and this probably why they are able to compact the save.
 
Sick Cylinder
I use a PS4 Pro and have never noticed any problems with frame rate - perhaps I don't know what to look for!



I have 5 races currently saved each of 30 minutes (between 32 and 35 minutes to be exact). I am sure this is the same number that I used to be able to save on PC1. I host 2 x 30 minute races a week and don't have a problem saving these providing that I remember to delete a couple of races a week to free up space - presumably I could copy them onto an external hard drive if I wanted.

I don't know what the limit on race length is for a save - hopefully its at least 60 minutes as I will be doing some double length races later in the year.

I used to be able to save more races on GT6, but accept that PD probably has more staff working just on replay's than the whole of the SMS staff and this probably why they are able to compact the save.
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Really. Amazing that other people cant figure this out.
 
Sick Cylinder
I use a PS4 Pro and have never noticed any problems with frame rate - perhaps I don't know what to look for!



I have 5 races currently saved each of 30 minutes (between 32 and 35 minutes to be exact). I am sure this is the same number that I used to be able to save on PC1. I host 2 x 30 minute races a week and don't have a problem saving these providing that I remember to delete a couple of races a week to free up space - presumably I could copy them onto an external hard drive if I wanted.

I don't know what the limit on race length is for a save - hopefully its at least 60 minutes as I will be doing some double length races later in the year.

I used to be able to save more races on GT6, but accept that PD probably has more staff working just on replay's than the whole of the SMS staff and this probably why they are able to compact the save.
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In my experience you get about 45 minutes of replay before it cuts out. Not long enough for the league i run in where the races are typically 60 to 90 minutes long
 
simsimsheree
I had a reply on the SMS site a long time ago from a dev where he said it was to do with the cloud size.
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Which is what I said, the PSplus backup restriction is probably the limiting factor. It doesn't mean that PC2 saves to the cloud though, which you keep repeating.

GTS is a different game so "copying how it does it" really isn't applicable. For starters its replays don't include weather, time of day, live track or much in the way of damage information so will be much smaller.

simsimsheree
Ultimately, it doesn't matter
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Well actually it does if there are console specific limitations that can't be bypassed and file sizes are large. I'm not saying it's in any way ideal but maybe it's what we are stuck with unless file sizes can be reduced in some way - or Sony relax the limits.
 
IfAndOr
I've seen you state this previously, but it's incorrect.
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So no, that's NOT what you said.

I'm afraid that 20 minutes compared to hours isn't simply a weather and ToD issue. At 30min per 200MB, your GB ought to get you at least 80min of replay and still leave room over for setups. So why the 200MB limit?

But I repeat my point. PC players would not play this game with those limitations. SMS would find a way around it. Or go bust.

Shame console players aren't as important. There's always a way.
 
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Given that console sales usually account for the largest share of the market, I suspect they are much more important to SMS (and any developer) than you would credit. You almost seem to want to believe that SMS deliberately limited that feature to annoy their customers, rather than accepting that there could be a perfectly valid technical reason for it. I have no actual idea what the reason is but instead of assuming the worst and making that my personal truth, I prefer to find out the actual reason.
 
simsimsheree
So no, that's NOT what you said.
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Reading through I'll think you'll find that I did. But hey oh, you seem to have all the answers already so I'll not continue the topic.
You do seem to believe any problems with the game have been put there by the evil Lord Bell to especially spite yourself and cannot be persuaded otherwise. We'd all like the perfect game but I'm just glad we've got all the the title's that are available to us.


Cluck
Given that console sales usually account for the largest share of the market, I suspect they are much more important to SMS (and any developer) than you would credit.
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Exactly. I remember reading this about its first week's sales.
Breaking down the sales by platform, the game sold best on the PlayStation 4 with 93,291 units sold (82%), compared to 14,368 units sold on the Xbox One (13%) and 5,260 units on Windows PC (5%).
And I believe that's just physical copies. Figures since then haven't been released as far as I can tell.
 
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You only need to look at the numbers on SMS's site. At even a rough estimate, PC players outnumber console players in post count by a factor of 5:1. The PS4 forum gets a post or two a day. The PC side gets dozens. Even here at GT Planet, look at the traffic. Many of us that post here came from Gran Turismo, and console posts and issues are a rarity.

Late at night in the US (midnight, mid week) it is not unusual to see less than 20 PS4 rooms online. That means, despite PC2's insane way of sorting console rooms (when there is more than 20, there is no way to step through each page to get a full count), when less than 20 rooms, that's it. THAT'S ALL OF THEM. Worldwide.

At the exact same time of night, you will find several hundred lobbies up worldwide on GTS.

If you look at a screenshot of the PC version, you see several hundred rooms available.
Project-cars-2-PC lobby

Project-cars-2-PC lobby

. Now, yes, this might be a different time of day, but it is hard to imagine less than 20 console rooms up worldwide at ANY time if your estimates of sales figures is correct.

The sad fact is, the blunders SMS have made with their console online lobby port have turned most who would LIKE to play PC2 but can't get a decent lobby going back towards GTS.
 
Just finished racing on PC for the night, it's 9:40est and there's 28 rooms of which only 12 have players.
I haven't seen hundreds of lobbies in awhile, when was your screenshot taken?

PC2 PC lobbies.jpg
 
Then those sales figures look even more suspicious. Because you can go onto GTS any time of the day or night (if you set the filter to all regions - at default it only shows your region) and see hundreds of lobbies.

There were 40 PS4 players worldwide playing publicly at 2am CST tonight. In about 15 rooms.

And, if SMS considered consoles their most important market, they'd develop for console in the first place and foist a half-featured port onto the PC community, not the other way round!

When GTS can manage room titles and full sort capabilities and replays that are hours long, no-one can tell me that there are limitations on console that prevent SMS from having those features. It is simply SMS refusing to redo those sections that obviously don't port from the PC version well.

I saved that picture from a PC2 forum post posted in June of this year. Sad to hear things are getting bad on the PC side as well. It doesn't bode well for PC3...
 
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