Wheels...

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void074

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Hi all... On the subject of wheel modelling in all of the GT games - am I the only one to notice that the wheel models are a bit of a letdown? they appear to be solid entities, i.e you cannot see through them completely?

Its very clever design - as you can see through to the brake disks, yet beyond that...hmmm! I would assume this is to cut down poly counts? It just seems a little overlooked as the rest of the car modelling is the best out there...roll on GT4 release - cant wait to spank round Nurburgring :) I'm still playing GT3 and just driving round complex string, tweaking the car, lap after lap just sooo good - zone out time! anyone know where and if its worth sending any GT4 game ideas in to Polyphony??

cheers

*v :bowdown:
 
honestly, don;t mind that at all....would rather they spend time on the pitting aspect of the game and meet is stinkin delivery date !!
 
This is the official PD's statement about wheels:

"As we have seen lots of fans are taking into concern wheels on cars, we have decided to implement full 3D wheels for each cars in the same polygon count as cars will have. Each wheels will be modeled of +5,000 polygons, which means +20,000 polygons per wheels on each car. In the same time, each car will be modelled from about +5,000 polygons, but in this way we will keep our fanboy base happy by allowing them to see wheels in full 3D, spectaculary modelled in the way never previous seen in video-game.

It makes us proud to say that Gran Turismo 4 will bring truly photorealistic wheels and wheelbase, with amazing level of details and precission. Even the scratches on calipers and manufactoorers insignia will be avalibale to view in replay mode.

Unfortunately, because of that, we had to do some minor changes in the game, so only two cars will be allowed to race on track at once. We hope that will not effect the gameplay, as - and we must declare that one more time - all the players will be able to enjoy in unbelievable believable wheels, in the way never seen besides the reality itself.

We hope that our fans will appriceate all the effort we put in into wheel modelling for the GT4.

Gran Turismo 4, now called "Gran Turismo 4: The Real Wheels Simulation" is scheduled for release in late 2004."


Hope this long awaited release will clear all the issues about the wheels in GT4.
 
:lol:........its true.......some people get to worked up about wheels, sure it would be great to have super amazing ones....but its NOT gonna hapen on the PS2......not unless you want a box car and flat scenery!
 
Well lets be honest, wheels would be nice if done a little better. Wheels in Tokyo Extreme Racer Zero were quiet well done, they were a little boxy but they were done very well. They had excellent reflections, the chrome looked realistic and the designs were amazing. In return for not having better modelled wheel, i hope to have wheel sizes bought into the equasion.
 
I think chrome wheels have been done quite well in GT.......look at the RX8's chrome wheels in Concept......and that was on GT3 graphics! GT4's wheels wont look great stationary but at speed they will look really good...
 
Do you understand? I'm talking about detail - realism was always the major factor in GT games, realism gave the game its playability and playability is enhanced by detail so therefore if fully modelled wheels enhance detail then surely more enjoyment will be gained for the money you spend for the game? Surely its about enjoyment gained from looking at your fav car perfectly modelled? Of course a higher level of detail is gonna slow the game down (sinful) but if detail gets overlooked then car modelling would suffer in the long run - gt 'the real driving simulator' - thats right! Dont ignore the fundamentals of design man, playability, detail, enjoyment = submersive, escapist entertainment.

*v :)
 
void074
Do you understand? I'm talking about detail - realism was always the major factor in GT games, realism gave the game its playability and playability is enhanced by detail so therefore if fully modelled wheels enhance detail then surely more enjoyment will be gained for the money you spend for the game? Surely its about enjoyment gained from looking at your fav car perfectly modelled? Of course a higher level of detail is gonna slow the game down (sinful) but if detail gets overlooked then car modelling would suffer in the long run - gt 'the real driving simulator' - thats right! Dont ignore the fundamentals of design man, playability, detail, enjoyment = submersive, escapist entertainment.

*v :)
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When GT5 comes out with 3d wheels, these same people will be bragging that GT has the most realistic car models and WHEEL models. They will buy other racing games just to dance on their dvd cases, because GT has so much attention to detail.

sigh a little louder, they won't notice.

I agree with you, the devil is in the details.
 
void074
Do you understand? I'm talking about detail - realism was always the major factor in GT games, realism gave the game its playability and playability is enhanced by detail so therefore if fully modelled wheels enhance detail then surely more enjoyment will be gained for the money you spend for the game? Surely its about enjoyment gained from looking at your fav car perfectly modelled? Of course a higher level of detail is gonna slow the game down (sinful) but if detail gets overlooked then car modelling would suffer in the long run - gt 'the real driving simulator' - thats right! Dont ignore the fundamentals of design man, playability, detail, enjoyment = submersive, escapist entertainment.

*v :)
Click to expand...

I agree with you, but there is one slight disclosure in our stances - I think that details are not in the wheels. PD has a lot of ather things to improve in details before the wheels and infamous 3D spectators.
 
Already mentioned, already mentioned, ALREADY MENTIONED! And damn it to hell I'm SICK of the wheels talk! You want to worry about wheels, find another game and let us be. I don't think it's the end of the world if GT4 doesn't include 3D wheels on all the cars. Maybe I need to bring back my "Do You Really Care About Little Details?" thread and discuss this issue and end the wheel deal once and for all. I'm sick of this talk. Don't like the wheels, don't buy GT4. Simple as that. I don't give a damn about the wheels anymore. Racing games serve a purpose other than wheels. Remember Ridge Racer from 1993/1994? The wheels were pixelated and rather cheesy (as were the cars). Did anyone give a crap? No, because they weren't such a big deal. But now when someone sees pictures of GT4 and notices the wheels look like crap, GT4 isn't as pretty-looking as it is? Come on now. That's like saying that a girl is very beautiful, but her teeth or her eyes are a letdown. If that's the case, you either take her as she is, or find some other hottie to call your own.

I don't care about the wheels. Welcome to GTPlanet, by the way. So what's going to be the next complaint? The cars don't look incredibly accurate to their real life models? But this has been mentioned before. And I apologize for my anger/frustration.
 
8 years ago I was finding first Gran Turismo graphic photorealistic. I still do. Period.
 
I will talk about what i like by the way, its an open forum i believe?

Also you should know i've bought every gt game since conception back on the ps1 and enjoyed each better than the last - if i'm anal about wheels, jeez u should read my ideas list!

I think also that wheel clipping routines are an issue in gt as when the car passes a certain focal length from the camera it instantly transforms into a flat grey disk!Hmmm! Sorry man i have to pick as much as i praise a game, there is always room for improvement - perfection is fleeting and elusive (hmm i'm just remembering how much i used to spend on arcades like pole position, outrun, hard drivin'...they were great but far from perfect), i could go on picking but i'm like that - attention to detail is vital - as long as other fundamentals are not changed or harmed i.e. playabilty, longevity, enjoyment - i agree, if these are lost to detail then detail is wasted...

Also i saw a posting about wheel sizes - yep you should defo be able to select different size wheels for every car, surely it wouldnt be that difficult to implement? (hey i know about time limits and deadlines and release dates ok before you jump in!)

Ok I promise i'll shut up about wheels from now on!!


cheers

*v :cool:
 
Totally - hey i know its not just in the cars (or any other part including WHEELS!) its the whole - i downloaded the full Nurburgring 1 lap drive&replay bmw 120 vid and was blown away by the detail, thats my idea of driving - car and driver, long challenging circuits/routes, virtually infinite setup..aah man, i'm sure i'm not the only one who cant wait! Just hope it'll be finished on release...

*v :)
 
Do you realize you're perhaps the only one making posts?

Well, attention to detail is going to be king, but if I want that, I'd rather look at that in gameplay, not something as little as wheels. As I say before, even if the cars look like Pole Position, I still want to play a game with wonderful car control and exciting races. Wheels are secondary to me.
 
iv never been concious of the wheels in GT3, never thaught "**** they could look better", they dont (to me) stand out against the cars, if the car detail was increased noticeably then yeah id want to see better wheels to stop the looking out of placebut at the moment there serving there purpose fine
 
Well I'd like them to look better yeah, but a bigger selection makes me drool just as much. If they could do both, then a pat on the back to PD :) , but really, if I can just HAVE those RS Watanabe rims with variable sizing, I'm happy. I GOTTA have those on ma BBT Levin.
 
I think you guys missed the point. He wasn't talking about high detail, high-poly wheels, he was talking about being able to see through them. You know how when you see a car someplace with 20" rims, and you can see clear through the underside through the wheels? You don't really get any of that kind of effect in Gran Turismo. But I think the reason is more about the brakes and underbody blocking the view than a lack of transparency. I mean, the only cars that come with wheels you could see through at all have these giant brake discs and are low to the ground.
 
I love when people say "its the PS2 hardware". No its not, its the games design. Clearly other games for PS2 have fully 3D wheels you can see through. TXR3, RRV, Even Burnout 1,2 and 3. Need forspeed HP2 and Underground 1 and 2 have fully 3d wheels, juiced will have them too. But seeing through them adds to the realizm.

but no game other than Ralli Sport 2 has better looking motion blur.
 
LaBounti
I love when people say "its the PS2 hardware". No its not, its the games design. Clearly other games for PS2 have fully 3D wheels you can see through. TXR3, RRV, Even Burnout 1,2 and 3. Need forspeed HP2 and Underground 1 and 2 have fully 3d wheels, juiced will have them too. But seeing through them adds to the realizm.
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And these games all of course look as fabulous as Gran Turismo 4 :rolleyes:
 
Only about 700+- polys are needed for good looking wheels, any more than that is a waste of space. I think PD can manage 700 polys per wheel and keep the graphics up on the cars.
 

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