When you hit a gravel trap its as if you hit a brick wall?

[Murcie_LP640]

Actually, thinking about it now makes me want to play GT5 again.

Treason!

But seriously, I don't really care so much for the sand traps. The problem isn't corner cutters in Forza 4 really it's more the people who troll by slamming people off the track.

There's not really anything a racing game developer can implement that actively and permanently stops trolls and cheaters. Someone's going to find their way around the system eventually. That being said though there's been a lot of improvement in what I like to call "slam central" - The ABC'S multi-class lobby that I frequent quite regularly.

 

[imported_vwpilot]

Consider this: the leaderboards already split "valid" and "invalid" laptimes, and your laptime can be invalidated by celestial events, looking at the Xbox funny, or because a pastor in Botswana farted.

This is actually a hundred times more frustrating to me than the traps. The traps are annoying, especially when the AI puts you into one, but running a race where I know I never touched another car, ran mostly perfect turns, never came close to spinning, hitting a wall or going off track, and having all my times invalid for some strange reason is incredibly frustrating.

 

[doctorrg]

This is actually a hundred times more frustrating to me than the traps. The traps are annoying, especially when the AI puts you into one, but running a race where I know I never touched another car, ran mostly perfect turns, never came close to spinning, hitting a wall or going off track, and having all my times invalid for some strange reason is incredibly frustrating.

This used to annoy the hell out of me as well, until I finally understood why it's invalidating my laps. I wouldn't ever have guessed that the mere fact that another car is drafting me would be worthy of an invalidation, but apparently it is.

 

[Wolfe]

^ The rear-drafting is also compounded by "out of bounds" lines that are as inconsistent and unpredictable as the sticky zones.

 

[Exorcet]

Well that's interesting.

I can only make sense of it if Forza models drafting a to a very fine degree. The lead car can, and has been documented, to see a larger drag reduction than the trailing car in certain conditions.

If Forza models that, that's interesting.

 

[Wolfe]

It might be overdone, at least to invalidate your lap so eagerly. I thought the rear car had to be on right on top of the one in front -- "bump drafting" in NASCAR.

Horizon definitely models aerodynamic lift, such as when you take a Beetle to 180mph with a turbocharged VR6. I never actually noticed that in FM4 myself, but it's probably there. There's more depth to the Forza engine than first meets the eye.

 

[Exorcet]

It might be overdone, at least to invalidate your lap so eagerly. I thought the rear car had to be on right on top of the one in front -- "bump drafting" in NASCAR.

It depends on a bunch of factors. Generally, the more aerodynamic the car, the less appealing drafting becomes until it gets to the point where drafting will basically always slow down the trailing car. You generally won't see that with normal cars though. What you do see is the drag on the front and lead cars vary with the distance between them. The lead car has constant drag until the cars get close (but they can still be a ways from making contact) and the rear car drag curve looks like a lop sided hill.

It's probably hard to model accurately in something like Forza which is why I'd be surprised if it's there at all. It might be modeled, but be of dubious accuracy. If it is modeled, the harsh penalty might be either because it's not modeled correctly or because Turn 10 wants to be absolutely sure that the lead car isn't gaining anything.

Horizon definitely models aerodynamic lift, such as when you take a Beetle to 180mph with a turbocharged VR6. I never actually noticed that in FM4 myself, but it's probably there. There's more depth to the Forza engine than first meets the eye.

I'll have to try that Beetle thing lol. If lift is modeled, I'll also have to see if I can get the GT40 to flip over.

 

[doctorrg]

If it is modeled, the harsh penalty might be [...] because Turn 10 wants to be absolutely sure that the lead car isn't gaining anything.

Maybe that's it? I've had to learn that it doesn't take much at all, you can come up from behind (staying out of the draft zone), catch them in a breaking zone, then you move (half) ahead of them so you can make the turn, and bang, lap invalidated (and yes, that's without contact of any sort).

 

[Squach240]

The "Forza Elements" are not what you think they are. It's not a anti-cheating measure at all!

The gravel, dirt, grass, etc are just all what a car realistically goes through when in contact with Dan Greenawalt's beard shavings.

 

[CAMAROBOY69]

I have to say, this has been the most annoying thing for me in Forza 4 so far.

Stay on the track . I have been real life track racing on and off for almost 10 years. If you go off the track at all, you are black flagged. So this is for your own good. Stay on the track and you wont get stuck in the traps.

 

[Exorcet]

Stay on the track

It's more than just that. If you go off track for any reason (loss of control, bump, to avoid a 100 car pile up) the game goes from sim to arcade because of the grass. Running off the track is part racing, be it intentional or not. Yes, there are penalties in real life, but I don't think Turn 10 should be holding our hands and telling us what the best way to set up the race is. They could just as easily introduce the ghosting from GT5 that can't be turned off individually. It spoils the simulation aspect of the game.

I'd much rather just have a well managed online lobby than have to deal with a whopper of an immersion/realism killer. If someone cuts, they get the boot and life goes.

 

[Wolfe]

As I pointed out earlier in this thread, our very own time-trial-racing rules allow two wheels off of the track. That'll stop you dead in several spots.

 

[doctorrg]

Stay on the track . I have been real life track racing on and off for almost 10 years. If you go off the track at all, you are black flagged. So this is for your own good. Stay on the track and you wont get stuck in the traps.

Well, all I've been doing is watching racing, particularly Formula 1, and I know for a fact that going off track won't get you black flagged, it'll get you penalized if it gives you an advantage. If it doesn't give you an advantage, you won't even get penalized, nor are the off-track areas particularly sticky (unless this is the nature of the material used, i.e. actual sand traps, as opposed to sticky grass, or sticky asphalt). What's more, I frequently see them having two tires off-track, or cutting over the curb with two tires, and it seems that's all fine to them. Then again, I haven't done any real racing myself, so what would I know, eh?

 

[justchyllan]

Stay on the track . I have been real life track racing on and off for almost 10 years. If you go off the track at all, you are black flagged. So this is for your own good. Stay on the track and you wont get stuck in the traps.

I have been to many track days myself, but this is annoying because there is no consequence for making an aggressive pass, which is when you can be pushed into a dead zone. In real life we know our cars are at stake so we are less aggressive in driving

 

[Killer46]

This is actually a hundred times more frustrating to me than the traps. The traps are annoying, especially when the AI puts you into one, but running a race where I know I never touched another car, ran mostly perfect turns, never came close to spinning, hitting a wall or going off track, and having all my times invalid for some strange reason is incredibly frustrating.

Getting drafted invalidates lap times because Forza models the effect on both cars. The lead car also gets a boost in speed and the whole point of valid/invalid is to put everyone on an even playing field.

The only invalidation bit that is sort of broken is the threshold for previous lap invalidations. Currently, it's from the last timing loop. which isn't such a bad idea until you realise that last timing loop can be quite far from the finish line. It should be from the last corner or last 2 corners.

 

[doctorrg]

Getting drafted invalidates lap times because Forza models the effect on both cars.

Good to know.

The lead car also gets a boost in speed and the whole point of valid/invalid is to put everyone on an even playing field.

And that's just fair enough. I mean, if you know why your lap is getting invalidated.