Wher is ENGINE BRAKE and Shifting Lag?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Odyofil
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Did you saw the guy shift downed gear 5 to 2 and car's like nothing happened.
 
Odyofil
Did you saw the guy shift downed gear 5 to 2 and car's like nothing happened.
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You can't have engine braking with an automatic clutch. Its been stated a few times now. Shifting lag is exactly the same. These cannot be experienced unless you have a racing wheel with an H gate and a 3rd pedal (or clutch somewhere).
 
You can use the goddamn manuel transmission in game with ds3, so when you push quickly to X you can shift down from 5 to 2 and the engine looks like nothing happened and slowing down like its on neutral position, and the video explains everything.

My bad, there are just bunch of nerds dont know real car physics and engine effects.
 
I just put my car in 6th gear and leave it there. That way I don't have to shift either up or down. FYI, I usually get beat off the starting line but I am down right wicked on long straights! Woooohoooo!!!!!
 
Odyofil
You can use the goddamn manuel transmission in game with ds3, so when you push quickly to X you can shift down from 5 to 2 and the engine looks like nothing happened and slowing down like its on neutral position, and the video explains everything.

My bad, there are just bunch of nerds dont know real car physics and engine effects.
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your are correct.

Feel better now?


I wholeheartedly disagree with you, but at least now someone agreed with you.
 
Odyofil
Did you saw the guy shift downed gear 5 to 2 and car's like nothing happened.
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YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG! 5th to 2nd is not engine braking... that's engine breaking.
 
There is engine braking... go to a certain speed on a straight piece of road, then down shift to a stop. Then go to that same speed and yank the handbrake for about a second, until the revs will go down to engine idle, the effect of putting down the clutch or putting it in neutral, and you will see how much longer it takes to slow down.
 
Odyofil
My bad, there are just bunch of nerds dont know real car physics and engine effects.
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This nerd knows real car physics and engine effects and how a sequential transmission with auto clutch works. My Jetta TDI has the DSG transmission and the engine braking on it is weak. My Jeep XJ has the AW4 automatic transmission and the engine braking is ok, probably helped by the fact that its a big inline 6 and the transmission is programmed not to automatically upshift if you put the transmission in low. My Jeep YJ has the BA 10/5 transmission and I really don't want to twist it up and have it spit out gears, but I could actually produce decent engine braking if I dared to try it.

Since there is no clutch button for the sixaxis, DS3, DFP, DFGT, etc the transmission always act similar to my DSG when manual but weaker than my AW4 when automatic. When using the G27/27 and the clutch pedal it should act like my BA 10/5 would if I dared to punish it.
 
There is definitely engine braking. Run a few laps around your favorite track in a car with a manual transmission then switch to a car with a CVT (the Honda Jazz for example). You'll find yourself braking more instead of letting the car coast down to a desirable corner entry speed. The Jazz reverts to idle whenever you lift off the gas so it has virtually no braking power.

As for shift timing. This is more noticable on some cars, usually ones with tall gears and no clutch/flywheel upgrades. Try driving some of the vintage cars in the game and you'll begin to feel it.
 
Odyofil
You can use the goddamn manuel transmission in game with ds3, so when you push quickly to X you can shift down from 5 to 2 and the engine looks like nothing happened and slowing down like its on neutral position, and the video explains everything.

My bad, there are just bunch of nerds dont know real car physics and engine effects.
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No, the issue is that you don't understand the difference between neutral and having the clutch disengaged.

When you're at redline in 5th and force a shift into 2nd (good luck doing this in a real transmission, by the way, you'll be getting positively massive resistance due to lock-out of the dog teeth and an inability of the synchro rings to mitigate the massive speed differential between the input and output shafts), the game performs the shift but leaves the clutch disengaged. Notice how, in the video, the engine RPM does not suddenly skyrocket, it stays at redline. You're not getting engine braking because the clutch is disengaged, regardless of what gear is selected in the gearbox.

Now, you can say you think the game should engage the clutch and force an over-rev if you like, but that's a different issue.
 
Odyofil
My bad, there are just bunch of nerds dont know real car physics and engine effects.
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Take your real car and go from 5th to 2nd. Please.
 
Bottoz
Take your real car and go from 5th to 2nd. Please.
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THATS WHAT IM SAYING.. IN REAL LIFE, THE CAR WOULD LOSE CONTROL, damaging transmission, and a powerful braking, thats what whould happen in real life, but in gt, it acts like nothing happened!, jesus christ.
 
If you use a shifter with a wheel then you get clutch lag, if you use the clutch, but if your using a DS3 then the game assumes you are pressing the paddle shifters so it does it quick.
 
Odyofil
THATS WHAT IM SAYING.. IN REAL LIFE, THE CAR WOULD LOSE CONTROL, damaging transmission, and a powerful braking, thats what whould happen in real life, but in gt, it acts like nothing happened!, jesus christ.
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Didnt someone answered your question? You'll see/feel once you play GT5 with a WHEEL WITH H PATTERN SUCH AS G2,G27,etc.
 
Odyofil
THATS WHAT IM SAYING.. IN REAL LIFE, THE CAR WOULD LOSE CONTROL, damaging transmission, and a powerful braking, thats what whould happen in real life, but in gt, it acts like nothing happened!, jesus christ.
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Ok... now I get what you're saying. So, you want GT5 to have bent valves and rods through engine blocks on mis-shifts and improper down shifts. Right?

There is engine braking, when you're in the proper gear. But when you improperly down shift, GT5 saves your precious engine from total distruction.
 
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Bottoz
YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG! 5th to 2nd is not engine braking... that's engine breaking.
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:lol:

Aside from that, I have to say that there is engine braking in this game. I notice that when I don't downshift while braking, I often overshoot the corner. Learn to downshift correctly, and not like the person in the video was doing. Hitting the rev limiter negates the engine braking in game.

watch that video around 0:17 as he downshifts from 3rd to 2nd while letting the car coast, you'll notice the speed drops a little faster when he goes into second.

And shifting lag is there. It's more noticeable for the slower/older cars. If you're using the DS3, the game optimizes each gear shift for you, but there is still a delay.
 
Thank you all but i still dont understand... even i posted here a video that clearly seeing, the engine is not braking the car, it just going like neutral position, if the clutch is still not engaged, how the car goes to redline, it must be stay in IDLE if not engaged clutch isnt it?

Maybe the misunderstanding is because of my bad english, i dont know, good night all...
 
it only works for any wheel with clutch and h shifter..... not sequential and not ds3...
get the wheel and try it. i can make turns without using the brake as much as i would with a sequential shifter wheel or ds3, simply because the car slows down when i drop the gear..

also in a sequential gear you HAVE to downshift threw every gear to get to the gear you want, not so with g27.. if i shift my car from 4th to 2nd with out braking i will definitely lose control of the car because of the engine brake and the massive overload of rpms. so it is there, you just need to get a wheel with h pattern shifter
 
Yeah. It works. Too early a shift and overrevvs. You can outbreak and AUTO all day long. You must not have a feel for it yet. If your struggling, try a Merc with revv matched syncro gearbox. They're pretty dope. never over revvs and engine breaks easily.
 
I completely agree with OP with regards to the engine braking - this is a major oversight by PD. In GT I only ever really use MT during drift trials or on the occasional licence test, but in drifting especially the lack of engine braking and the effect it should have is startlingly noticeable.
 
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I know from experience that the TVR Speed 12 will lock up it's rear wheels when downshifting to 2nd and 1st gear because of engine braking. It's called compression lockup. The FGT has the same tendency IIRC.

And all this talk of redlining and misshifting, watch this guy:

 
Cars (IRL) with manual transmission, IMO should have a safety mechanism where the onboard computer automatically disengages the clutch whenever a 'misshift' is detected (say, the computer finds that the car is in 1st but is going much faster than what's normally achievable in 1st, so it quickly disengages the clutch before the engine is damaged).

EDIT: Found an even better "money-shift". This one sounds pretty dire:

 
Seems like it's pretty much cleared up by now. Yes engine braking works in GT5(maybe not quite true-life), as clearly shown in the first video. At the start you can see how much faster it slows with no inputs just by dropping a gear, and later you can see how slowly it decelerates when the RPM drops very low.

If you over-rev when downshifting you would get a braking boost but this would very soon lead to damaging the engine or gearbox. Since there is no damage of this kind in the game, they have 2 basic options(probably could find more if you try):

1)Like NFS, let players cheat by slamming it down to 2nd gear at 180mph and slow down faster than any car could survive -- or any fair player can achieve.

2)Automatically fully engage the clutch so that there is zero engine braking until reaching a proper point for using the gear selected, thus penalizing someone who tries to abuse it.

Since PD refuses to give us proper mechanical damage, I'm glad they chose the second. If this can be cheated with a clutch and H-shifter that's unfortunate, but I don't know anything about that as my wheel has a clutch but GT5 inexplicably disables it when using the paddles.

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EDIT: Having re-read the OP's last point and done a quick test, I think I see what he is actually asking about now.

When you over-rev in the game, it doesn't just engage the clutch, but it also forces the throttle wide open. You get zero engine braking like you are in neutral, but the engine revs to the limit the whole time. That makes it seem like there should be massive engine braking(to the point of spinning of breaking the transmission) but there is none. It is weird, and it masks the fact that the clutch is fully on. I didn't notice it at first when watching the video because watching the telemetry I thought the driver just left it floored.

It might be because of something with how the game engine works, or it might be an attempt to penalize doing this online or in endurance races since it should use [a tiny bit of] extra fuel, or it might just be something they thought seemed amusing.

Side note: Does it seem to anybody else that when you are just rolling to a stop(like in the video, low RPM with no throttle) that the clutch seems to engage much earlier than you would do in a real car?
 
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Sier_Pinski
Cars (IRL) with manual transmission, IMO should have a safety mechanism where the onboard computer automatically disengages the clutch whenever a 'misshift' is detected (say, the computer finds that the car is in 1st but is going much faster than what's normally achievable in 1st, so it quickly disengages the clutch before the engine is damaged).
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Vehicles with a sequential transmission do have this, but it would be really hard to do this with in a vehicle with a regular manual clutch. You would have to have either an electronically controlled clutch, or have some sort of pump or motor between the actual clutch pedal and the clutch itself. That would be really tricky to engineer and add another thing that could go wrong.
 
Odyofil
Hello guys, im playing gt since 6 months i love this game, i got aspec 31.

Now i have a question,

Where the hell is engine brake?
I mean for example, when you in 4. gear, you in redline like 8000 rpm, pressing X and shifting down to 2, the engine is not braking it just slowing down like its in neutral position, BUT IT SHOULD be!, if this is a real driving simulator, it must be in game!, even forza has it!

2. question, why all car's shifting speed is like F1 transmission, its too unnatural and unrealistic, in real life theres a lag btw gears, (clutch lag), the game looks like there is no clutch.

I didnt updated to spec2.0, maybe its fixed, but if not, this game is not driving simulator.

Sorry for my bad english.
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Try using a 70s/80s car and compare it to modern car's shift times. Drastic difference there.

Also - I lol@anyone who thinks Forza, Gran Turismo, iRacing, etc. are sims. The only sim is real life. Period.
 
Odyofil
Thank you all but i still dont understand... even i posted here a video that clearly seeing, the engine is not braking the car, it just going like neutral position, if the clutch is still not engaged, how the car goes to redline, it must be stay in IDLE if not engaged clutch isnt it?

Maybe the misunderstanding is because of my bad english, i dont know, good night all...
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I knew what you were saying from your original post......
You can choke/stall the engine sometimes under braking which is cool.....

I hear what your saying maybe GT6
 
The shifting lag in the 787b IRL is amazing, proper bang..
 
ghsnu
I lol@anyone who thinks Forza, Gran Turismo, iRacing, etc. are sims. The only sim is real life. Period.
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(Es gibt ein "Face-Palm", no?)
 
Also - I lol@anyone who thinks Forza, Gran Turismo, iRacing, etc. are sims. The only sim is real life. Period.[/QUOTE]

Probably the stupidest thing ever said. Period. I LOL@ it.
What are you trying to prove?
 
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