Where did PD go Wrong?

  • Thread starter MaDHaX
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I really wish someone, especially PD, would just model the basic cars and then provide the parts to make the different models. Let's just use the Mitsubishi 3000GT/GTO as an example (since it was sold in several places).

They could create the basic model with base level exterior. There would be a menu similar to GT Auto when you purchase your car, which would include wheels, bodykits/spoilers, and dash configuration (RHD/LHD). The interior styling/layout could also be changed (if it differs for each model.) You could make any model you want (which would fullfill their love of multiple models), and it would simplify the dealership layout. Theoretically, they could make one model for several years and only have to change certain parts to distinguish the years.

However, this is just a pipedream for now it seems.
 
buickgnx88
I really wish someone, especially PD, would just model the basic cars and then provide the parts to make the different models. Let's just use the Mitsubishi 3000GT/GTO as an example (since it was sold in several places).

They could create the basic model with base level exterior. There would be a menu similar to GT Auto when you purchase your car, which would include wheels, bodykits/spoilers, and dash configuration (RHD/LHD). The interior styling/layout could also be changed (if it differs for each model.) You could make any model you want (which would fullfill their love of multiple models), and it would simplify the dealership layout. Theoretically, they could make one model for several years and only have to change certain parts to distinguish the years.

However, this is just a pipedream for now it seems.
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Hear, hear. PD was onto something great in GT2/5 with race mods. Now, we get our "1200" cars statistic. Just one misstep for PD.
 
buickgnx88
I really wish someone, especially PD, would just model the basic cars and then provide the parts to make the different models. Let's just use the Mitsubishi 3000GT/GTO as an example (since it was sold in several places).

They could create the basic model with base level exterior. There would be a menu similar to GT Auto when you purchase your car, which would include wheels, bodykits/spoilers, and dash configuration (RHD/LHD). The interior styling/layout could also be changed (if it differs for each model.) You could make any model you want (which would fullfill their love of multiple models), and it would simplify the dealership layout. Theoretically, they could make one model for several years and only have to change certain parts to distinguish the years.

However, this is just a pipedream for now it seems.
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That's entirely too sensible. :D
 
GT6 is an abandoned ship the captain gotten off already there is no point for those who are still onboard to complain about it or whine that there is no communication - just get off it. I've decided not to expect anything from captain PD, but I'd rather enjoy this ship as much as I can while it's still afloat. GT6 is really not a version up from its predecessor, it's more like an expansion kit much alike Blizzard's Craft series. If you look at it that way it's not that irritating... Well, till you remember you forked out a full price for such an "expansion"(-_-)

To me PD seems not interested in improving GT6. Microsoft's attitude towards Windows Vista comes to my mind. They knew they've done irreversible damage to an image they pretty much abandoned it and came up with a new name, Windows 7. PD has done, or still doing, damage to its flagship's image and reputation I'd be very surprised if they'd continue to use the name "Gran Turismo" for their future title, I doubt I'll see "Gran Turismo 7." Would you buy it???

If they used GT6 merely as a tool, with minimum effort put into and recycle existing code as much as they can get away with, to gather money from consumers to fund towards their new project for newer console, ie PS4, then I'd say they've done a good job, well done. I'm sure SONY would be pleased with the number. But SONY wouldn't be entirely happy if customers are hung up on dry they want to see some sort of proof that players still continue to play GT6 consistently. So PD came up with the idea of extra bonus for those who log in every night. To the eyes of SONY headquarter GT6 still has popularity and activity going on so they see the game as "success".

Of course this is all my speculation but I mean, they want us to log in every now and then by giving us extra bonus n all but there is no communication from them. Why else they bothered to corporate such feature? Giving us the means to earn more credit would only hurt their in-game-credit money sales.

If the game was $15 then none of these complaints would exist. I'd say it's a pretty damn good game for $15 but the reality is not - we paid the full price. That's why we have a right to complain. I know there is nothing in there for them for whatever effort they put out after the game was sold, after the game was sold everything they do for us to please is a service with no profit but that's the difference between the game that dies out or continue to thrive to its next level, ie the newer title.

I think I've written far too much nonsense. In short, I'll enjoy this game as much as I can in my own way. I paid the full price for it and there is nothing I can do about it so might as well get the most out of it. You should do the same.
 
JujiroMatsuda
GT6 is an abandoned ship the captain gotten off already there is no point for those who are still onboard to complain about it or whine that there is no communication - just get off it............. In short, I'll enjoy this game as much as I can in my own way. I paid the full price for it and there is nothing I can do about it so might as well get the most out of it. You should do the same.
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Spot on! 👍

ProjectWHaT
Companies don't listen to petitions and protests. The easiest and fastest way to get your point to a company is by money. Dislike some thing? Don't invest your money in it. Money is the number one communication method to a large company.
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True ... that's why we massively refuse to buy credits right?
Still I think they will notice such a petition without ever responding to it .. it gets a message across ... Yes.. one-way-traffic ... (marketing dept. always listen in)
 
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MaDHaX
Sorry but wrong, Kaz wanted and has to a certain extent simulated every possible form of motor racing. He has brought us a good physics engine that also feels very good when playing with a wheel, however that is not the problem here.
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For me personally, this IS the problem. You claim that Kaz has 'simulated every form of motor racing', well which form of motor racing has no flags, no grid starts, no practice or qualifying sessions and only lasts 5 laps? Or is that what you meant by 'to a certain extent'?

I think PD should either be a driving sim/game OR a motor racing sim/game.

To me it seems if they HAD to choose they would go down the driving sim route because it's obvious that they can't grasp what a fan of motor racing wants in a game.

They should just create real world road maps, free roam maps and offer a list 5000 cars that you can buy on a 3 year lease and then trade it in for the newest model and of course send you an email via the PSN to let you know that your car is due for a service and MOT and that you need to take it to the service centre so you can waste 5 minutes watching your car go through pointless animations while its oil is changed and they check your emissions...and leave the motor racing simulation to someone else.

Again, this is my personal opinion, some people love to drive normal road cars at 70 mph around a race track or city street (online lobbies are proof of this), well I can go and do that in real life and it doesn't excite me one bit, what I can't do in real life is line up in a grid at Spa in an AMG SLS GT3 car and drive it as fast as I can, so PLEASE let me do it in the virtual world in an authentically reproduced GT race!

I really cant wait for pCars!
 
JujiroMatsuda
GT6 is an abandoned ship....
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There is one thing that is just about keeping me from leaping over-board and that is the fact that the GT6 official website is still listing the features that are (allegedly) coming in future updates. PD is not a small and insignificant producer and as such, it seems unlikely that they would leave such material on the website if they had no intention of following through with it. More likely would be a stealth update to the site and an understated news article mentioning GT7.

I wouldn't go so far as to say it was a clear indication of intent but its certainly a smoking gun, isn't it?
 
PIP_36
Or is that what you meant by 'to a certain extent'?
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Yes and all of the other thing's that I mentioned aswell, GT has simulated many thing's, Rally, GT, road cars, F1, antique cars, concept cars and even the MOON buggy. It has done them well, but only on the physic's side minus the obvious physics bugs.

Thing is about the GT developement is that it is taking too long with not many changes to the layout of the game, that's why I was comparing to a birthday cake without the icing.
 
Vagabond
There is one thing that is just about keeping me from leaping over-board and that is the fact that the GT6 official website is still listing the features that are (allegedly) coming in future updates. PD is not a small and insignificant producer and as such, it seems unlikely that they would leave such material on the website if they had no intention of following through with it. More likely would be a stealth update to the site and an understated news article mentioning GT7.

I wouldn't go so far as to say it was a clear indication of intent but its certainly a smoking gun, isn't it?
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I hope you are right Vagabond, despite all the short comings that I consider to be rife in this game, I still love meeting up with friends online and spending a few hours swapping paint in an (as far as we can make it) authentic motor race.

So it's community features that I am personally waiting for until I stop playing this game.

I see a lot of passion in these forums, whether it's for or against the current state of GT6, and I honestly think that it's only because we can all see how great this game could be. The fundamentals are all there, all that is needed are a few very simple changes that would change the experience vastly such as options...options for online and offline. I just wish that PD would get it through their stubborn heads that all it takes is options to make everyone happy.

Players that only play offline can choose how they play offline and the same with online only players...and of course for players that do both!

Things like liveries, sounds and course makers come second for me personally, of course I would love a racing game/sim that have these included, but for me, I just want to be able to take part in a realistic motor race that makes me follow the rules of motor sport and punishes me if I decide not to follow them...please, make me feel like a racing driver!
 
MaDHaX
Yes and all of the other thing's that I mentioned aswell...
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Well, for me 'to a certain extent' isn't good enough.

They may have simulated the actual driving of a car (physics) better than last time (other GT games) but the actual structure of the 'races' isn't simulated well at all.

At the moment in terms of motor racing, GT6 is like Microsoft Flight Simulator that has added a handful of fighter jets that they will let you fly but wont allow you to fly below 30,000 feet, wont let you go past mach 2, will let you fire only dummy missiles, won't let you take off or land manually and it doesn't matter if you break all the rules of ground control...
 
I didn't think you finished bitching because for GT7, it will be same story. Basics first, rest via update.

It should be understood that developments have changed. It costs much more expensive, it takes more time, we must find the right balance.

Look what happens with Drive Club.....

I repeat : I approve this method to 200%. Of course, it's always better to have full content but I didn't want to wait 5 years for have updates a few weeks / months later, anyway. Then, it's a car game, this is not a problem....

Once we understand this, we realize that PoDi gave series back on track with GT6. PoDi haven't lied about content, we assume our purchase and be patient.
 
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Vagabond
There is one thing that is just about keeping me from leaping over-board and that is the fact that the GT6 official website is still listing the features that are (allegedly) coming in future updates. PD is not a small and insignificant producer and as such, it seems unlikely that they would leave such material on the website if they had no intention of following through with it. More likely would be a stealth update to the site and an understated news article mentioning GT7.

I wouldn't go so far as to say it was a clear indication of intent but its certainly a smoking gun, isn't it?
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The difference with every GT game released before 6, is that this time for once Sony forced them to a deadline hence the game was released unfinished and now they are desperately playing catch up. 5 was 80% finished on release and they were already more than a year overdue, so this probably explains why this time the game was released only 60% complete.

By the time they will actually release the tack editor, community features and the necessary bug fixes, lot's of people will have long forgotten about the game, so another 'fail' there in an already incompetent way of managing a product from the start...
 
mister dog
The difference with every GT game released before 6, is that this time for once Sony forced them to a deadline hence the game was released unfinished and now they are desperately playing catch up. 5 was 80% finished on release and they were already more than a year overdue, so this probably explains why this time the game was released only 60% complete.

By the time they will actually release the tack editor, community features and the necessary bug fixes, lot's of people will have long forgotten about the game, so another 'fail' there in an already incompetent way of managing a product from the start...
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I'm afraid this is so close to the truth ....
 
Well, I suppose you can look at it like that, but if the functionality ever comes, for someone who has never bought the game before and just gets all this stuff out the box, £15 is an amazing price for GT6 to be offered at. Should have been that to start with. :P
 
Zlork
I didn't think you finished bitching because for GT7, it will be same story. Basics first, rest via update.

It should be understood that developments have changed. It costs much more expensive, it takes more time, we must find the right balance.

Look what happens with Drive Club.....

I repeat : I approve this method to 200%. Of course, it's always better to have full content but I didn't want to wait 5 years for have updates a few weeks / months later, anyway. Then, it's a car game, this is not a problem....

Once we understand this, we realize that PoDi gave series back on track with GT6. PoDi haven't lied about content, we assume our purchase and be patient.
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Doesn't mean we have to like and accept it and sales of GT6 seem to suggest many don't. I can't fathom how PD are "back on track" when fan/customer satisfaction is at an all time low.
 
I don't really care about 5 laps races and other "non-simracing", typically arcade stuff in GT6. It's how GT was all along, I didn't expect 6 to be a simulation in this regard. What I do care about however is how the cars drive with steering wheel. I won't get into the details of how I think drifting sucks in GT6 and how I dislike it compared to GT5. But hell... I play GT5 - ANY car, start up GT6 and DUUH, this drives SO BAD. Freaking tank slapper festival of masochistic bricks on wheels. Getting PSN, digital version of GT6 was a bad, bad, baaaad move from my side.
 
I really hope you're right @Vagabond that there is still some spark left in the eyes of PD if the game gets updated as they had promised and if all major bugs are fixed I'll withdraw everything I said.

I was just playing GT6 then and was enjoying driving Shelby Cobra and was thinking the car needed more grip at the back so I thought I should put some camber at the rear and then thought, "Ah that's right, it doesn't work like that." it immediately wiped smile off my face and could not get back on to "I'm gona enjoy this game no matter what" mode...:indiff:

What's sad is that real life racers aren't touching this game because it has major unrealistic bugs in it. They are afraid that picking bad habits off this game might break their real life driving technique. What works IRL might not work in this game and what works in this game might not work IRL and that could cost you totaling your car.

I fell in love with GT5 because I could apply what I've learnt in real life to it and the game responded really well. If I can't drive F40 in GT6 is it me or is it game? If the game is totally accurate then I can accept it's me. If the game is broken then I don't want to learn to drive with it. Say, I mastered at driving Nissan Z37 in GT6 then when I'm at the GT academy driving the real Z and crashed it as soon as I got on it and Johnny Herbert says to me, "Where the hell did you learn to drive like that bad??" I'll say "Er, GT6? I was the best of the best but the car didn't do how it should, your car has too much cambers on it."
 
Squanto
It is significantly important for your wallet ...
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The garage transfer wasn't, but for those features on the GT website, yes; which was exactly my point. :)
Samus
Doesn't mean we have to like and accept it and sales of GT6 seem to suggest many don't. I can't fathom how PD are "back on track" when fan/customer satisfaction is at an all time low.
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Publishers are getting fatigued by vocal minorities claiming to be representative of the whole, that probably won't end well.
 
Well unless PD survey everyone playing the game who else can they listen to but those that do share their feelings somewhere? I was also referring to the millions who were seemingly not satisfied with GT5/PD in general to buy GT6. Maybe PD should be surveying those people to see why.

Plus it's not just that which goes against PD being "back on track", the ratings/reviews for the games continues to go downwards, PD continue to not communicate alienating more fans and they continue to miss deadlines and promised content. How does any of that add up to being back on track?
 
Samus
Well unless PD survey everyone playing the game who else can they listen to but those that do share their feelings somewhere? I was also referring to the millions who were seemingly not satisfied with GT5/PD in general to buy GT6. Maybe PD should be surveying those people to see why.

Plus it's not just that which goes against PD being "back on track", the ratings/reviews for the games continues to go downwards, PD continue to not communicate alienating more fans and they continue to miss deadlines and promised content. How does any of that add up to being back on track?
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I think you might be overestimating the importance of these self-appointed "fans". See my previous comment. It is quite likely that PD have a better idea than anyone here as to the "success" and "popularity" of their games, and moreover, they'll have it in the terms they need it expressed in, not what said arbiters of the series think it should be. What they do with that info is entirely up to them, and they've been doing it for some time now (GT5 phoned home so often for a reason) and they have learned some of the "damned if you do..." lessons already, e.g. damage.

Jockeying with disgruntled forumites and being seen to take their ideas on board and massage / soothe their bruised egos is merely posturing for good PR in a lot of cases. Some EA guy recently said, why should he listen to someone who doesn't want to play the game [EA] wants to make (with the implication being that many others would lap it up despite his complaints)?

If you want to influence people, it might be time to change tack, is all I'm saying.
 
I was just countering the idea that PD are back on track, that's all. As for the idea that they shouldn't be listening to the detractors online I get what you're saying but doesn't the fact GT6 sales have (seemingly) tanked suggest perhaps the silent majority might also not be happy and have similar thoughts? GT6 hasn't changed in any great way from GT5, if people were satisfied with how that game was structured rather than wanting vast changes that are posted here why haven't they bought GT6? I'm sure PD would like to know that as well.
 
Samus
I was just countering the idea that PD are back on track, that's all. As for the idea that they shouldn't be listening to the detractors online I get what you're saying but doesn't the fact GT6 sales have (seemingly) tanked suggest perhaps the silent majority might also not be happy and have similar thoughts? GT6 hasn't changed in any great way from GT5, if people were satisfied with how that game was structured rather than wanting vast changes that are posted here why haven't they bought GT6? I'm sure PD would like to know that as well.
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I think there are other things affecting GT6's sales than just GT6's perceived quality alone, if we're going to compare them to other games in the series, since the environment is very different now given the new console generation. I don't know that we can immediately assume that lower sales means a lower quality product in the eyes of the general buyer: look at GT4 (which didn't release after the PS3).

I don't consider GT6 to be "back on track" either, I see it more as a continuation of the same track PD have been tracing this whole console generation, and I think it does exhibit positive progress in some areas (for my tastes). But, despite what many would probably claim, we've yet to see where this track is headed, in my opinion, which is I suppose why so many people are upset. You can believe that the series is still wayward (if I may extrapolate that from "not back on track"), but your justification for doing so is flawed, in my opinion - there's possibly a little hint of confirmation bias, I think.

I also don't believe in dictating what "track" a particular game should take, which is why I'm an advocate of greater variety and choice, with smaller expectations, to try to nurture a more rounded games "market" that better caters to individuals (instead of the push-pull blandness you get with 10 million cooks sharing a one-size-fits-all, er, thing.)

I'm sure there's very little mystery at PD / Sony on this issue, as they hold all the cards and have the benefit of a long term plan. Given the gaming community's penchant for inventing competition at every turn (and for other publishers to try to capitalise on that fervour), it's not surprising that they'd hold those cards close to their chest, either.
 
Well when the guy said back on track I assumed he meant in terms of churning out a quality game. Obviously that will always be an opinion but general opinion seems to be that it's not back on terms with the older games. Metacritic of 81, etc.

Whilst of course nobody here can give a reason for slow sales one would assume most of them are as a result of GT5 in one way or another and for whatever reason GT6 did not appeal to them. As you say PD have much more data to work with than us and hopefully they can fathom it out. Otherwise I can't see how this series is going to keep going forward. Some change is needed and hopefully PD have worked out what it is.

The fact they've shared no numbers of any sort like they did with GT5 suggests they aren't happy with them and realise there are problems.
 
When the future is like this: Core or Basic game, then changes and developed features via update (like Minecraft for example) then they should also copy the payment. Minecraft was available for 10$ first. After huge leaps in development and updates for free it cost 15$. The full version with lost of stuff in it was 20$.

So I just hope PD does this for GT7 if they will do this scheme. Basic game: 20-30$. Every huge major update (Tracks, Cars, Features (course maker, livery, races, whatever) will cost 10$ but will improve the game massively. All small developments and updates are free. Once they reach 60$ the game shoudl be complete and should be called a full version...

PD actually did this: Pay 60$ for the basic game with features that are boring (career mode, moon and goodwood, etc.) and then just be silent about development and updates... so nobody really knows what is coming when. Every other developer doeing this keeps the games updated.... if this is japanese mentallity... boy I will never visit this counrty, although I really like to. Please tell me it is just PD boneheads.
 

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