White Privilege

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I'm starting to wonder about if I'm privileged...
As you all know I wasn't born silver spoon in mouth and actually grew up in an apartment complex that was pretty much a drug den.
I did have the privilege of going to rather nice schoos cause of the location of said apartments...but I screwed that up...
Throughout life I was able to learn Spanish, my Spanish isn't perfect and it definitely isn't proper Spanish but it's more than enough to hold a conversation or know if I'm gonna die by some cartel if I ever went to Mexico and tell the workers what to do for my boss.
Ironically my boss is Italian/Argentine...but knows enough Spanish that he " knows if they are talking about his mom".
Well a few weeks ago my boss overheard me talking to a coworker in Spanish. Since then he has started training me on how to properly run a site, read blueprints, use his commercial accounts/connections and also offered to pay for my forklift and industrial lift certification renewals.
Now my question is, is it my "white privilege" that has taken me from a construction site grunt to being trained to be a GC for him or is it simply the fact he found out I speak Spanish and he finds me more useful to be a GC than a grunt?

Maybe you're "a little bit" privileged? Hell, everyone can use a bit of privilege in their life.

I'm not really clear on the point of your story. Is what you're saying that you work on a construction site with mostly hispanics & you're wondering why the boss picked you out for extra responsibility ... & you're thinking it's because you're not hispanic (ie you're "white"), but are able to speak Spanish?
 
I'm starting to wonder about if I'm privileged...Now my question is, is it my "white privilege" that has taken me from a construction site grunt to being trained to be a GC for him or is it simply the fact he found out I speak Spanish and he finds me more useful to be a GC than a grunt?

White privilege doesn't directly get you extra things, that's a misconception that's run throughout this thread. It stops you from being prejudiced against in the way that people who aren't white are prejudiced against.
 
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I'm starting to wonder about if I'm privileged...
As you all know I wasn't born silver spoon in mouth and actually grew up in an apartment complex that was pretty much a drug den.
I did have the privilege of going to rather nice schoos cause of the location of said apartments...but I screwed that up...
Throughout life I was able to learn Spanish, my Spanish isn't perfect and it definitely isn't proper Spanish but it's more than enough to hold a conversation or know if I'm gonna die by some cartel if I ever went to Mexico and tell the workers what to do for my boss.
Ironically my boss is Italian/Argentine...but knows enough Spanish that he " knows if they are talking about his mom".
Well a few weeks ago my boss overheard me talking to a coworker in Spanish. Since then he has started training me on how to properly run a site, read blueprints, use his commercial accounts/connections and also offered to pay for my forklift and industrial lift certification renewals.
Now my question is, is it my "white privilege" that has taken me from a construction site grunt to being trained to be a GC for him or is it simply the fact he found out I speak Spanish and he finds me more useful to be a GC than a grunt?
That's not what "white privilege" means. What you've done is market a useful skill. Good job.

In some cases, the act of being born white is seen as a useful skill. An example of white privilege would be this: You grow up poor, but you walk into the rich people grocery store, and nobody even notices. You walk into a fancy restaurant and nobody cares. You walk out of a bar and nobody seems to care that you've got multiple beer glasses bulging out of your pants. White privilege is when some redneck is talking crap to your black friend, so you step in, and the redneck guy actually listens to you and shuts up and walks away. The fact that I know I can go anywhere I want and do anything I need to do and nobody will even notice, and they don't notice because I look like I'm supposed to be there.

You know that feeling you get when you get curious and roll through the hood side of town and you feel anxious like everybody is looking at you, and you stand out like a sore thumb, and you kinda feel like you shouldn't be there, but you are there because you can be? Think about that feeling next time you see the one black person at the grocery store, because chances are they're pretty familiar with that feeling.

I have a while hippie buddy who actually doesn't get this feeling. Like, he genuinely feels no pressure to walk up to anybody on the street and say hi or ask them for directions or whatever. I can't tell if he was so privileged that he had no idea what he shouldn't do, or if he was so pure that he was living what he believed. All I know is he tried to walk around the Bronx barefoot before I pointed out a needle on the sidewalk.
 
That's not what "white privilege" means. What you've done is market a useful skill. Good job.

In some cases, the act of being born white is seen as a useful skill. An example of white privilege would be this: You grow up poor, but you walk into the rich people grocery store, and nobody even notices. You walk into a fancy restaurant and nobody cares. You walk out of a bar and nobody seems to care that you've got multiple beer glasses bulging out of your pants. White privilege is when some redneck is talking crap to your black friend, so you step in, and the redneck guy actually listens to you and shuts up and walks away. The fact that I know I can go anywhere I want and do anything I need to do and nobody will even notice, and they don't notice because I look like I'm supposed to be there.

You know that feeling you get when you get curious and roll through the hood side of town and you feel anxious like everybody is looking at you, and you stand out like a sore thumb, and you kinda feel like you shouldn't be there, but you are there because you can be? Think about that feeling next time you see the one black person at the grocery store, because chances are they're pretty familiar with that feeling.

I have a while hippie buddy who actually doesn't get this feeling. Like, he genuinely feels no pressure to walk up to anybody on the street and say hi or ask them for directions or whatever. I can't tell if he was so privileged that he had no idea what he shouldn't do, or if he was so pure that he was living what he believed. All I know is he tried to walk around the Bronx barefoot before I pointed out a needle on the sidewalk.

I think what you're articulating here is what people mean by white privilege. All I want to say is try female privilege for this one. If you really want to be seen as non-threatening, you need to be female. Even as a non-body-builder middle-aged well-dressed white guy I get less benefit of the doubt in certain social circumstances than my wife does. Luckily she recognizes this and will step in to take care of certain things when she knows it will go more smoothly for a woman.
 
I think what you're articulating here is what people mean by white privilege. All I want to say is try female privilege for this one. If you really want to be seen as non-threatening, you need to be female. Even as a non-body-builder middle-aged well-dressed white guy I get less benefit of the doubt in certain social circumstances than my wife does. Luckily she recognizes this and will step in to take care of certain things when she knows it will go more smoothly for a woman.
A couple points can be made about this. First the counterpoint, which is that while your wife may be confident and proud to smooth over those situation that we men would fumble, that same non-threatening nature may have caused her to feel taken advantage of at a car dealership for example. Many women say that male salesperson situations are often disrespectful and borderline creepy.

That also raises the biological question that a lot of people pose. Maybe it's just pure biology that women are comforting on one hand but vulnerable on the other. Maybe it's biology that male pilots (personal example here) react positively to cheerful female controllers but will make fun of a frustrated female controller without hesitation as if she's either an angel or underqualified but nothing in between. Maybe it's biology that white people can confidently travel and express themselves but black people are either praised for conforming to societal norms or shunned for not conforming but nothing in between.

I'm no sociologist so maybe the male/female vs white/not-white comparison isn't valid. Studies on kids have suggested that racial biases are almost purely learned behavior but are gender biases learned or innate? I remember years ago FK mentioned that he tried his best to expose his daughter to all types of toys but over time she gravitated toward girl stuff. He couldn't control for television, or what she learned outside their home. Are these gender roles that seem impossible to control for the same thing as racial roles? Is gender privilege actually comparable to racial privilege? When we talk about "white privilege" do we actually mean "white male privilege" given that, let's be honest, our ancestors pretty much modeled the entire system after themselves and even their own wives were definitely not sitting at the table.
 
A couple points can be made about this. First the counterpoint, which is that while your wife may be confident and proud to smooth over those situation that we men would fumble, that same non-threatening nature may have caused her to feel taken advantage of at a car dealership for example. Many women say that male salesperson situations are often disrespectful and borderline creepy.

That also raises the biological question that a lot of people pose. Maybe it's just pure biology that women are comforting on one hand but vulnerable on the other. Maybe it's biology that male pilots (personal example here) react positively to cheerful female controllers but will make fun of a frustrated female controller without hesitation as if she's either an angel or underqualified but nothing in between. Maybe it's biology that white people can confidently travel and express themselves but black people are either praised for conforming to societal norms or shunned for not conforming but nothing in between.

I'm no sociologist so maybe the male/female vs white/not-white comparison isn't valid. Studies on kids have suggested that racial biases are almost purely learned behavior but are gender biases learned or innate? I remember years ago FK mentioned that he tried his best to expose his daughter to all types of toys but over time she gravitated toward girl stuff. He couldn't control for television, or what she learned outside their home. Are these gender roles that seem impossible to control for the same thing as racial roles? Is gender privilege actually comparable to racial privilege? When we talk about "white privilege" do we actually mean "white male privilege" given that, let's be honest, our ancestors pretty much modeled the entire system after themselves and even their own wives were definitely not sitting at the table.

I was trying to make a broader point, which is that we all have some privilege and some burden. My wife recognizes when a less threatening person will likely be better received in a social situation. I wouldn't exactly call myself physically threatening, but when someone is already nervous, they may react much differently to a man than a woman. Similarly, she recognizes when she'll likely get favoritism compared to me, because she's pretty... and I'm a dude.

That's not to say that on the balance my wife has more privilege than other people. I mean, I'm sure she does, because she's pretty. But in any one given circumstance she might be at a disadvantage. A lot of people assume pretty is synonymous with stupid, so if she needs benefit of the doubt when it comes to intellectual aptitude, she doesn't often get it. They come around though because she happens to be very intelligent, but some of that (not all of it) may also be privilege.

I'm at a disadvantage compared to her in a lot of social circumstances. But I'm greatly advantaged compared to other people. Like for example the person I used to see at the pool every weekend who would be wheeled in by two caretakers on a specially designed wheelchair so the he could have a few minutes enjoying the pool before being wheeled back out. That guy was unable to function physically, and I'm not sure how cognitively present he was. He was obviously very much not well. I have nothing like his (presumably) unearned burdens in my life. He's white.

The particular privilege that you were calling out for white people is even more pronounced for women. They have their own gender-specific burdens as well (such as being targets for abusive men), but they do have their advantages. Likewise for being male. Likewise for being white, or black, or hispanic, or asian, etc. Likewise for being able-bodied, or ugly, or beautiful, naturally brilliant, or naturally slow, or artistic, etc. etc.

Too often I feel like white privilege becomes a surrogate for "since you're white, you have it easy" which is exactly why so many people say things like "I haven't gotten my white privilege check this month". Because it does not mean white people have it easy. And all it really means is that racism exists. Skin color is not the biggest unearned privilege or burden you might unfairly possess or face in your life. Not by far.
 
To white people who who still think white privilege does not exist, imagine this scenario: You are taken to a city in the middle of Africa and told to live there for 10 years. You are the only white person in the entire city. Do you honestly, sincerely believe you will be treated as an equal to the other black people there? That the majority black community will treat you completely fairly and equal while never favoring their own over you? When looking for a job, and its between you and 9 other black people, can you say with 100% certainty the black supervisor is going to see you as an equal and the color of your skin will not affect his decision? How will you feel when you go to the store to get a book for your child and they are all filled with images of black children? Maybe you are single. At work you see a nice looking black woman, you seem to mesh well, but she seems hesitant to be seen around you in front of her black family and friends. This is the land of black privilege, and you do not have it. Sucks doesnt it? To not really know just how much your being screwed over just because of the color of your skin.

When I was 14 I lived in an all black area of Jackson, Ms. I don't recall ever being mistreated. I made many friends in the apartment complex that I lived in. The worst thing that ever happened in the time that I was there was having to take crap for the music I listened to, that being thrash and death metal. The only problem I ever had was with this dude named Arthur who would constantly come over and ask for cigarettes, and that wasn't even that big of a deal. That was one of the best times of my life.

That part about someone being ashamed about being seen associating with someone of another race is just crazy. Ive had many black friends in my life and Ive never been ashamed of them due to the color of their skin. Ive never encountered that in anyone else either. And other than 4 years that I spent living in New Mexico, Ive lived in the south my entire life (North Carolina, Mississippi, Louisiana, Florida, Tennessee).
 
As a white man I can attest that I've never experienced any form of privilege. I don't think systemic racism is really an issue in Amercia at least. I'm no sociologist but this man I've been watching taught me a lot. His name is Thomas Sowell he's nearly ninety years old with a doctorate in economics. He also speaks of the real reason behind supposed modern 'economic disparities' here's the video...



He has written 12 books all of which I need to buy.
 
Soo lets all believe white people that preach white privilege but not black people that say otherwise??? That alone is being racist by not assuming autonomy in the case of the black people like Thomas and instead giving that respect to the white speakers just because they fit your warped view of reality and support your beliefs.

You don't know what the term "white privelege" refers to, do you?
 
I believe in the case of white privilege, it's not what you get from it, it's what you don't get from it... that being negative prejudice based on not having white skin.

And prejudice from that does indeed exist especially in South Africa where whites are being robbed, raped, and murdered by blacks.
 
You don't know what the term "white privelege" refers to, do you?

I do and it's a fallacy.

I'm not going to apologize for the fact that white people bought black slaves from Africa like BLM people expect me too. Nor will I have 'white guilt' lol. I'm proud to come from the race that invented the modern industrialized world as we know it. I'm happy Germans and Frenchmen invented internal combustion to make possible the sports cars we all love. I'm proud to be a member of the race that invented computer programming the modern world enjoys and the modern medical sciences and technology. Hey it's better than living in the Congo.
 
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I do and it's a fallacy.

And what is it?

I would hazard a guess that majority of population don't know it either.

I think I agree, although they're without the excellent explanations in this very thread :)

And prejudice from that does indeed exist especially in South Africa where whites are being robbed, raped, and murdered by blacks.

A society where some of the resident humans have been murdered, imprisoned and segregated into poverty based solely on their skin colour is not the greatest example you could pick. And it has nothing to do with white privilege, although you seemingly don't actually know what that is.
 
And prejudice from that does indeed exist especially in South Africa where whites are being robbed, raped, and murdered by blacks.
Hmmm that raises an interesting point - is privilege contextual, and does it solely rely on who is the majority group.

What you describe would be "black privilege" (assuming that you are also talking about preferential treatment in South Africa), and you could argue "Hindu privilege" exists in India (especially in the current climate).

Are there any examples of countries where a minority group enjoys privilege?

EDIT: Part of this question may have been answered by @Danoff's post above.
 
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And what is it?



I think I agree, although they're without the excellent explanations in this very thread :)



A society where some of the resident humans have been murdered, imprisoned and segregated into poverty based solely on their skin colour is not the greatest example you could pick. And it has nothing to do with white privilege, although you seemingly don't actually know what that is.


Everyone knows what this supposed white privilege is in it's definition. It's a lie however. This man explains it...



I have my sources and you'll have yours and indeed I will not be swayed by Marxist lies.
 
I do and it's a fallacy.

I'm not going to apologize for the fact that white people bought black slaves from Africa like BLM people expect me too. Nor will I have 'white guilt' lol. I'm proud to come from the race that invented the modern industrialized world as we know it. I'm happy Germans and Frenchmen invented internal combustion to make possible the sports cars we all love. I'm proud to be a member of the race that invented computer programming the modern world enjoys and the modern medical sciences and technology. Hey it's better than living in the Congo.

Being proud of something we have no control over is so shallow. I don't get the idea of being proud of being X race just because someone who looked like me invented something I enjoy and brought the world forward.

The color of our skin (me and the inventor/artist/scientist/philosopher) is probably the less interesting we have in common.

Sounds very tribalistic to me.
 
I'm not going to apologize for the fact that white people bought black slaves from Africa like BLM people expect me too. Nor will I have 'white guilt' lol. I'm proud to come from the race that invented the modern industrialized world as we know it. I'm happy Germans and Frenchmen invented internal combustion to make possible the sports cars we all love.

That's nationality. Or do you mean specifically the white Germans and Frenchmen?

I'm proud to be a member of the race that invented computer programming the modern world enjoys and the modern medical sciences and technology. Hey it's better than living in the Congo.

Why is that? Would it make a difference if a different race did that?
 
And prejudice from that does indeed exist especially in South Africa where whites are being robbed, raped, and murdered by blacks.
First... [citation needed]. Secondly, are you forgetting that black people are also having the same happening to them?

Is this about the whole "white farmers are being attacked" thing?

There's certainly merit to discussing the governmental seizure of lands owned by (primarily white farmers) as reparations for the negative effects of apartheid. It's a complex issue and I believe very few (if any) countries have perfectly navigated redress against land being stolen or sold coercively.

However there's not much of a base to claims that whitefwhite are being systematically rounded up and shot or beaten.

___________

I'd be keen to get your understanding of "privilege" from a sociological point of view before trying to converse about specifically white privilege though. Without you simply posting a video from Dr. Jordan "everything I don't like is cultural Marxism" Peterson. ;)
 
Well many black people in the BLM movement expect modern white people to apologize for what white people did to them over 120 years ago. Holding white people accountable for what our ancestors did is shallow thinking in and of itself. The point being black people in developed nations have it way better than they'd otherwise have on average in North African territories. Black people kill each other at higher rates than whites kill blacks in regards to street crime. It's a household issue and how they raise there young. Black men that don't want to be poor and downtrodden and that take their education seriously and stray from fitting in with the 'hood' get bullied mercilessly in their own neighborhoods. It's sad but many blacks feel they are trapped and under privileged but then the same ones either bully those that don't fit their macho thug image or are the one getting mocked by their peers. The dis-functional home life is the biggest issue facing blacks and absent fathers. The negative defeatist outlook creates a negative loop making them feel trapped when in reality they can lead better lives by putting the effort in. I had to put lots of effort to make my life decent years of split shift mistreatment from bosses and 7-8 hours between shifts and took it all over the years. Nothing was handed over to me because I'm white I had to beat the streets on foot or bicycle for 2 years to get a job! No golden spoon and diamond chalice in my hands.. success takes effort no matter the race you are. My best friend Ron(a black man because I'm not racist) scored his first job way faster than me... but that's anecdotal.
 
You are happy to take pride of your ancestors, why not the shame too?

If I'm to feel shame then blacks should feel shame for how they treat each other even to this day in Africa. Also, they'd need to feel guilty for being the original slave owners of the Jews in Egypt.

Besides I don't puff myself up because the great innovations of past generations. I only used that as a counterpoint to the needless desire for BLM activist expecting me to feel guilt for what white people did in the past. Granted I'm Irish who's lineage consists of the Irish that immigrated to New York and none of my ancestors owned black slaves. They were treated bad themselves the streets of Brooklyn was built by the Irish. So yep that's viable in feeling 0% guilt.

#IrishLivesMatter
 
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then blacks should feel shame for how they treat each other

It's best to avoid this kind of statement when you're trying to take the position you're taking. The use of "they" here comes off racist. You might have said "If I'm to feel shame then black people should feel shame for the misdeeds of other black people even to this day in Africa". Just saying you're not doing yourself favors here.

See... because your whole point is that "they" is not "they". Black people obviously should feel shame if they treat people badly. You want to emphasize that it's not them who are doing it just because they share skin color with someone who is.

Edit:

This is kinda piling on but just so you don't miss it, you do the same thing in the next sentence. I thought it was too obvious to point out but then I thought... I should probably point it out.
 
Well many black people in the BLM movement expect modern white people to apologize for what white people did to them over 120 years ago. Holding white people accountable for what our ancestors did is shallow thinking in and of itself. The point being black people in developed nations have it way better than they'd otherwise have on average in North African territories. Black people kill each other at higher rates than whites kill blacks in regards to street crime. It's a household issue and how they raise there young. Black men that don't want to be poor and downtrodden and that take their education seriously and stray from fitting in with the 'hood' get bullied mercilessly in their own neighborhoods. It's sad but many blacks feel they are trapped and under privileged but then the same ones either bully those that don't fit their macho thug image or are the one getting mocked by their peers. The dis-functional home life is the biggest issue facing blacks and absent fathers. The negative defeatist outlook creates a negative loop making them feel trapped when in reality they can lead better lives by putting the effort in. I had to put lots of effort to make my life decent years of split shift mistreatment from bosses and 7-8 hours between shifts and took it all over the years. Nothing was handed over to me because I'm white I had to beat the streets on foot or bicycle for 2 years to get a job! No golden spoon and diamond chalice in my hands.. success takes effort no matter the race you are. My best friend Ron(a black man because I'm not racist) scored his first job way faster than me... but that's anecdotal.
Wait wait. Didn't you just say you take pride in your race for what they did that you had jack **** to do with? But that shoe doesn't go on the other foot, and you shouldn't apologies for what your race did that you had jack **** to do with? Doesn't the irony in your life hurt every time it hits you square in the face?
 
It's best to avoid this kind of statement when you're trying to take the position you're taking. The use of "they" here comes off racist. You might have said "If I'm to feel shame then black people should feel shame for the misdeeds of other black people even to this day in Africa". Just saying you're not doing yourself favors here.

See... because your whole point is that "they" is not "they". Black people obviously should feel shame if they treat people badly. You want to emphasize that it's not them who are doing it just because they share skin color with someone who is.

Edit:

This is kinda piling on but just so you don't miss it, you do the same thing in the next sentence. I thought it was too obvious to point out but then I thought... I should probably point it out.

I'll keep that in mind. My bad as it's not my intent. I'm running on only 2 hours sleep so my writing is off today, thanks for the input.
 
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