Whitewall Tires

[Parnelli Bone]

I just noticed something the other day.

So I've been driving the Volkswagen Karmann Ghia lately. When I went to look at the models at the dealership (the ones we can't buy) I noticed something that hadn't caught my eye before. These cars have whitewall tires! Hmmm. So I went back to look at my Karmann Ghia in the garage, and got a bit miffed. My car has blackwalls!

I'm sure some of you could care less, but me being a car-nut, I wanted whitewall tires! "Maybe it's because my Karmann is dark green" I thought. "Maybe you only get whitewalls if you win these cars and the body is in a certain color." I thought.

Back at the dealer, I found out this isn't true. Turns out, ANY Karmann Ghia can have whitewall tires, WTF?

Well, I did some photomode pics. I put N tires on, because I like the way the tread looks blockier than sports tires--to me, it looks like the car is now totally stock (real-life stock) if N tires are on there. Lo and behold, I now had whitewall tires on my Karmann-Ghia!


Turns out, the mystery is solved. N tires on some older models=whitewalls, whereas sport tires or racing tires will=blackwalls! How clever. This experiment works with the 1954 Corvette as well, and lord knows how many other cars in GT4!

Below are a couple pics of the Corvette. One with sports (blackwalls) and one with N2s (whitewalls). They are thumbnails, so just click on them to enlarge.

 

[spauldj3800]

I had wondered myself what the go was with the whitewalls, now I know..

 

[PARAGON GT]

Also, I know that if you put N tires on the '64 GTO you get Red line tires.

 

[Robin]

I wonder if this was cleverly intentional by PD or just an accident, It would certainly make sense as I doubt you would find Racing white wall tires!

 

[HACKr]

I honestly wish there was an option to fit white wall tires on your cars. Lord knows all my cars would have them, but then after a week I'd get bored of them and start tinkering around with something else.

 

[Paulie]

Thanks for that bit of info, I had always wondered what happened to my coloured walls.

I wonder if this was cleverly intentional by PD or just an accident, It would certainly make sense as I doubt you would find Racing white wall tires!

Would be cool though.

 

[MadMax]

Really nice find 👍

It actually makes more now that I think about it.
The cars were scanned by PD, so they should come with the same looking tires as when been scanned.
And basicly "Sports" and "Racing" tyres have allways been PD's own design.

Now to search for 1886 Carriage and Wagon optional tyres

 

[Parnelli Bone]

Also, I know that if you put N tires on the '64 GTO you get Red line tires.

Wow! I also noticed the Shelby Cobra gets "Goodyear" written on the side in huge letters, but I haven't experimented with the N versus sports comparison yet.

I wonder if this was cleverly intentional by PD or just an accident, It would certainly make sense as I doubt you would find Racing white wall tires!

It's intentional. You don't see whitewall racing or sports-quality tires.

I honestly wish there was an option to fit white wall tires on your cars. Lord knows all my cars would have them, but then after a week I'd get bored of them and start tinkering around with something else.

When I worked at Mr. Tire last year, we sold whitewall tires for just a handful of cars: mostly Cadillacs. They've otherwise become a rarity in the States, unless you're shopping for something way off-brand, perhaps.

 

[Pupik]

Awesome discovery, Parnelli! Nearly four years later, another interesting find...

I'm off to put N-tires on more cars, next time I get a chance.

They've otherwise become a rarity in the States, unless you're really shopping for something way off-brand, perhaps.

I'd find Vogue Tires mounted "from outside the shop" every so often in the Lexus service drive. They just do not belong any any car made after 1970.

 

[Greycap]

Wow! I also noticed the Shelby Cobra gets "Goodyear" written on the side in huge letters, but i haven't experiemented with the N versuss sports comparison yet.

They remain all the way to R grades. The picture below was taken with Racing Mediums.

 

[Parnelli Bone]

oh i see.

Pupik: I see some bling-mobiles with whitewalls occasionally. Navigators, Escalades, Chrysler 300s...but these tires are also the ones that fit on those ridiculously huge wheels, not the classy full whitewalls from yesteryear.

 

[VTiRoj]

Great find Parnelli. Never knew this myself.

If I could +Rep you, I'd +Rep you.

 

[Parnelli Bone]

Yeah! + Rep to everyone who showed up to support the otherwise dismal GT4 section! lol

 

[bellybox]

They look sweet on the 54 Corvette.
I did once see a racecar with whitewalls on the dragstrip even though the rear wheels were 15" wide. Here, found a pic on Google :

 

[AOS-]

i love cars with white wall tires.. i wish i knew how to make any set of tires have a white wall style.

 

[KAMKA-Z]

i love cars with white wall tires.. i wish i knew how to make any set of tires have a white wall style.

I've seen it done with spray paint. You can too!

cool find Parnelli. There were a few whitewalls on indycars in the 60's. The Lotus Turbines looked really wacky with them.

 

[PARAGON GT]

I was bouncing around some of the classic sections recently. I noticed that most (if not all) of the cars shown in that area are shown with "N" style tires on them. So you can see what cars will have whitewalls, Red Lines, etc. and which ones don't.

I have to thank Parnelli for not only bringing up this topic, but for also planting the C1 bug. I had a "Little Red ('54) Corvette" collecting dust in my garage that I had planned on doing something with, but never did. After seeing this thread I pulled it out, slapped a set of N1 tires on it and took it for a spin. What a fun little car!!! The 2 speed trans takes a while to get use to. (I swear I never shifted once in a lap around the Ring) and the 100mph limit was a little bothersome (Both ticks can be remedied with a full custom trans), but over all it is a wonderful car to drive. Even on a set of N1 tires, there was very little squeeling from the tires in the corners. And the car never felt out of control or twitchy for its age.

It has been bumped up on the list of cars that I want to take through the "1000 Miles" race. I'm sure that even stock it will take 3 of the 4 races no problem.

 

[Parnelli Bone]

The '54 Corvette surprisingly handles a lot better than C2s or C4s, even. Less understeer, great for trailbraking. Makes me wonder if the real-life version is supposed to be so compliant. Must be those gumball tires.

Yah, I just did some races, too. I used the 2-speed where I could. Thankfully, the engine has a meaty torque band that pulls from like 2 grand on up. 👍 So the 2-speed tranny feels a bit awkward, but it's certainly useful. I even drove the C1 as an automatic since the real-life car was only offered as an auto.

I didn't know most classic cars have N tires when shown at dealer. 👍💡 Now that I know, I'll certainly be looking for them.

 

[Shant J.]

Love the way the '54 looks. Wish they had used a '55, because it was the same bodystyle but had a V8 and and available 3-speed manual.

 

[Rotary Junkie]

I didn't know most classic cars have N tires when shown at dealer. 👍💡 NOw that i know, i'll certainly be looking for them.

Actually... Just about every street vehicle is shown at the dealer with N tires, but used vehicles are shown with S2s.

 

[Paulie]

I was bouncing around some of the classic sections recently. I noticed that most (if not all) of the cars shown in that area are shown with "N" style tires on them. So you can see what cars will have whitewalls, Red Lines, etc. and which ones don't.

I have to thank Parnelli for not only bringing up this topic, but for also planting the C1 bug. I had a "Little Red ('54) Corvette" collecting dust in my garage that I had planned on doing something with, but never did. After seeing this thread I pulled it out, slapped a set of N1 tires on it and took it for a spin. What a fun little car!!! The 2 speed trans takes a while to get use to. (I swear I never shifted once in a lap around the Ring) and the 100mph limit was a little bothersome (Both ticks can be remedied with a full custom trans), but over all it is a wonderful car to drive. Even on a set of N1 tires, there was very little squeeling from the tires in the corners. And the car never felt out of control or twitchy for its age.

It has been bumped up on the list of cars that I want to take through the "1000 Miles" race. I'm sure that even stock it will take 3 of the 4 races no problem.

You should try mine at Aussie Tuners, award winner. It's too good in fact. Never tested anything faster on S3 tyres other than a CIEN.

 

[Parnelli Bone]

Going a tad off-topic here, I've been trying to find info on how C1s actually drove and handled in real-life, so that I can compare them to how they drive in the game as I write my next review. So far, I've only found a couple sites. Most Corvette sites go on and on about C2 generation cars and later, but I can't find much info on how C1s are supposed to drive. This is important because GT4 makes these cars seem incredibly willing and flexible (in a good way). Somehow, I doubt this is the entire story, tho.

So far, I only found one site (and it's not wikipedia) with a few sentences on C1 behavior and it describes these early Corvettes as driving with "truck-like" mannerisms, which can't be too far off since the real-life C1 had leaf springs bolted to a live rear axle. But that's all I've found. The front suspension had coils and control arms + anti-roll bars, and is independent rather than fixed like the rear.

Anybody who knows of or can give more info here would be rewarded.

 

[Rotary Junkie]

C1s drove like trucks because in truth they WERE trucks... Just with a sleek fiberglass body bolted on.

 

[Paulie]

Going a tad off-topic here, i've been trying to find info on how C1s actually drove and handled in real-life, so that i can compare them to how they drive in the game as i write my next review. So far, i've only found a couple sites. Most Corvette sites go on and on about C2 generation cars and later, but i can't find much info on how C1s are supposed to drive. This is important because GT4 makes these cars seem incredibly willing and flexible (in a good way). Somehow, i doubt this is the entire story, tho.

So far, i only found one site (and it's not wikipedia) with a few sentences on C1 behavior and it describes these early Corvettes as driving with "truck-like" mannerisms, which can't be too far off since the real-life C1 had leaf springs bolted to a live rear axle. But that's all i've found. The front suspension had coils and control arms + anti-roll bars, and is independent rather than fixed like the rear.

Anybody who knows of or can give more info here would be rewarded.

Well they only had a 2spd gearbox, and 1950's suspension so you expect them to be rather slow. With all the modern equipment and race spec parts we can put in it though in GT4, it's still a really light and small roadster.

 

[Parnelli Bone]

Yea, I know you can fix them up. But even when stock, the game makes C1s seem extremely capable and easy to drive till you start putting heavy pressure on. Low understeer, not many issues. I'm not sure PD got the C1 right so far as driving goes. Whatever, tho.

 

[Paulie]

My guess would be PD never got the C1 at all. There'd be some cars they would have had to of guessed at what they were like due to being unable to get one for testing. They would have guessed low weight, only a 6cyl up front, small in size.

 

[Parnelli Bone]

I agree. I'm sure, for instance, some PD employees must have driven a C2 by now, since it's been 12 years since the C2 first appeared in GT1. But less than 2,000 C1-era Corvettes were produced from 1953 to 1954, which makes it unlikely anyone over in Japan ever got behind the wheel of one.

I asked one of the older guys I work with if he ever drove a C1, and he said "no", but he has driven a '63 split-window coupe (C2) and he's also worked on them. He didn't have much to say about the way they handled, other than there was a lot of play in the steering (not uncommon for 60s-era cars). He also had plenty to say about how much "go" the C2 had...plenty of straight-line acceleration in other words. So PD's representation of C2s is certainly accurate, whereas the C1 seems overconfident in comparison, which I doubt is possible. 💡 In my opinion.

Although they did get the sluggish C1 acceleration right.

 

[Parnelli Bone]

Sorry for the bubble-dost. Pics of the Karmann Ghia, finally.





They're both whitewalls, but you get the picture? Get it? Get..the ..;picture. Never mind...

 

[PARAGON GT]

Going way off topic, yet in line with the Corvette talk in this thread.

This car is something of an anomaly. Not only in its handling, but in other areas that I have noticed.

I started up another 1000 miles event last weekend, and managed to complete 2 races, and start the 3rd. I took the C1 into the event only adding a F.C. Trans, NI0298 Rims and N1 tires.

At the beginning of the event, the car had 152hp.
At the beginning of the second race the car still had 152hp.
And at the start of the 3rd race, the car was still at 152hp.

500+ miles on the car and there was no HP erosion what so ever. Not to mention that the car still looked sparkling off the show room new too.
(No dulling of the paint from either of the races.)

Last time I took in my GT-B, the HP dropped signifficantly each race except for the final race. And after the first race the shiny red paint was considerably duller then at the begining.

Its pretty strange. I can't say that I know of any other cars that do this.

I don't know if this counts either, but in the first 2 races, I only had to pit once in each race. 1st race, pitted on 13th lap for gas only. 2nd race pitted around lap 85 for gas, and front tires.

Granted, I am running on N1 tires, so I'm guessing that has a lot to do with it.

 

[Rotary Junkie]

Stock oil doesn't lose power until 800 miles or so.