Who is at the Centre of the Universe? The EBS Game!

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Famine

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Okay, this has a rather complicated explanation, but is essentially a game for geeks to find the most important people in the universe (allegedly!). If that's not your thing, don't bother reading the explanation...

Some time in the 12th Century BC (1994), someone came up with a game called "The Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon". This was the general idea:

  • Through films in which actors had mutually appeared, one could link any actor to Kevin Bacon in six films or fewer because Bacon had appeared in many cross-genre films.
Accordingly, Kevin Bacon's Bacon Number is 0 because he is Kevin Bacon, whereas Tom Hanks's Bacon Number would be 1, because he's appeared in Apollo 13 with Kevin Bacon and Penn Jillette's Bacon Number would be 2, because he's appeared in Toy Story with Tom Hanks.


In 1969, a similar concept (but predating the Bacon Number - Bacon was 11) was applied to the field of academia with the Erdős Number - based on famed Hungarian mathematician Paul Erdős. There is a similar, basic theme:

  • Through academic papers in which authors had mutually contributed, one could link any academic to Paul Erdős because Erdős had published so many papers (1500) with so many different collaborators.
Again, Paul Erdős's Erdős Number is 0 because he is Paul Erdős, whereas anyone who'd worked on a paper with Erdős would have an Erdős Number of 1 and anyone who worked with them but not Erdős would have an Erdős Number of 2. These are harder to give examples of because you may not have heard of these people.


These two concepts were smooshed together to make Erdős-Bacon Numbers - people who had a finite Erdős Number and a finite Bacon Number. The rules were relaxed slightly, to include mutual television appearances for the Bacon Number, but nonetheless created an impressive list of individuals.


This wasn't enough for nerd blog Timeblimp who, in 2009ish, decided that simply being smart and photogenic wasn't enough and saw fit to incorporate a third, similar game called "The Black Sabbath Game". Again, the concept should be familiar:

  • Through musical performances or media releases in which musicians had mutually contributed, one could link any musician to Black Sabbath because Sabbath had performed and published with so many different collaborators.
So any member of Black Sabbath has a Sabbath Number of 0 because they are Black Sabbath. Mike Bordin (0) played drums for Black Sabbath and Faith No More, so members of Faith No More who aren't Mike Bordin have a Sabbath Number of 1.


Timeblimp nailed together the three numbers to come up with the Erdős-Bacon-Sabbath Number and came up with just four people in the world who qualified:

  • Brian May (Queen) - E7, B3, S1 - EBS 11
  • Richard Feynman - E3, B3, S4 - EBS 10
  • Natalie Portman - E5, B1, S4 - EBS 10
  • Stephen Hawking - E4, B3, S2 - EBS 9

In June 2012, math graduate Ross Churchley encountered the Timeblimp blog while trying to calculate the Erdős number of Brian May and managed to come up with two further known, finite EBS holders on his own blog:
  • Tom Lehrer - E4, B2, S3 - EBS 9
  • Professor Brian Cox - E7, B3, S4 - EBS 14
Prof. Cox found out about this and Tweeted. And that's when the floodgates opened.

Since June 25th 2012, the EBS Number ranks have swelled from 4 to 17 and includes some of the most famous people in the world. Here is a list of all the known finite Erdős-Bacon-Sabbath Number holders and their primary claim to fame:

  • Stephen Hawking (Physics) - E4, B3, S2 - EBS 9
  • Tom Lehrer (Math/Music) - E4, B2, S3 - EBS 9
  • James Randi (Magician and Sceptic) - E5, B2, S2 - EBS 9
  • Carl Sagan (Astronomy and Author) - E4, B2, S3 - EBS 9
  • Richard Feynman (Physics) - E3, B3, S4 - EBS 10
  • Natalie Portman (Film) - E5, B1, S4 - EBS 10
  • Terry Pratchett (Author) - E4, B2, S5 - EBS 11
  • Edwin "Buzz" Aldrin (Astronaut) - E6, B2, S3 - EBS 11
  • Brian May (Music [Queen]) - E7, B3, S1 - EBS 11
  • Richard Vranch (Music/TV) - E5, B3, S3 - EBS 11
  • Greg Graffin (Anthropology/Music [Bad Religion]) - E5, B3, S3 - EBS 11
  • Phil Plait (Astronomy) - E4, B3, S5 - EBS 12
  • Colin Firth (Film) - E6, B1, S5 - EBS 12
  • Patrick Tewson (None) - E3, B3, S6 - EBS 12
  • Professor Brian Cox (Physics/Music [D:Ream]) - E7, B3, S3 - EBS 13
  • Famine (None) - E6, B4, S3 - EBS 13
  • Milo Aukerman (Biochemist/Music [Descendents] - E7, B3, S3 - EBS 13
  • Woody Paul (Music [Riders in the Sky]) - E7, B2, S5 - EBS 14
  • Touring Mars (None) - E5, B3, S6 - EBS 14
  • Patrick Moore (Astronomy) - E8, B3, S4 - EBS 15
  • Adam Rutherford (Genetics/Journalism) - E6, B3, S6 - EBS 15
  • Thomas Edison (Innovation) - E6, B6, S6 - EBS 18 - Honorary
Thus Carl Sagan, Stephen Hawking, James Randi and Tom Lehrer are the four ultimate polymaths - the people closest to the centre of the universe - as they are connected in the fewest steps to Paul Erdős, Kevin Bacon and Black Sabbath.


So here's the game. Help out Timeblimp and Ross Churchley's mutual Erdős-Bacon-Sabbath Number by coming up with more people. Ross came up with some suggestions on his blog that he was unable to finalise finite numbers for that might prove a good start:

  • Winston Churchill - Missing Erdős
  • Shaquille O’Neal - Missing Erdős (despite Ph.D)
  • Neil deGrasse Tyson - Missing Sabbath
  • Bill Nye - Missing Erdős
  • Sir David Attenborough - Missing Sabbath
You might try other academic actors and musicians or other popular scientists. I'm sure Einstein will have two of three, if not more... Now go!
 
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Just to get this straight - a person can be connected by working with this person, not by any other relationship?
 
Correct.

A Bacon number can only be arrived at through mutual film or TV appearances.
An Erdős number can only be arrived at through mutual academic publications (non-fiction books may count)
A Sabbath number can only be arrived at through mutual musical performances or media releases.
 
My head hurts after reading the explanation, but the concept is awesome. I highly doubt I could help finding more people, but I'll for sure be checking this out to see if anyone else surfaces.
 
My experience of EBS hunting says that it's the Erdős Number that's the difficult one - plenty of people have appeared in music and on TV (excluding MTV :lol: ) but few have publications.

I've been trying to find published academic sportspeople - there's a long standing joke that Hank Aaron has an Erdős Number of 1 because he and Paul Erdős signed the same baseball - but other than Shaq, they're very much a rarity.
 
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Thus Carl Sagan, Stephen Hawking, James Randi and Tom Lehrer are the four ultimate polymaths - the people closest to the centre of the universe - as they are connected in the fewest steps to Paul Erdős, Kevin Bacon and Black Sabbath.


And after those four comes Natalie Portman, who would have guessed she was that close to the centre of the universe :D


[*]Famine (None) - E6, B4, S3 - EBS 13

Ha! I just noticed you put yourself in there :)
 
Yep. I'm one of the current list of seventeen people worldwide with known finite EBS numbers. Touring Mars might be another, but his Sabbath number is very tricky.

No, not kidding. I've sent evidence into Ross and hopefully we'll come up with something sufficiently satisfactory. I'm the only completely non-famous person there :lol:
 
Yep. I'm one of the current list of seventeen people worldwide with known finite EBS numbers. Touring Mars might be another, but his Sabbath number is very tricky.

No, not kidding.

o_O wtf

how come?
 
And after those four comes Natalie Portman, who would have guessed she was that close to the centre of the universe :D

Plus she made out with Mila Kunis which gives her a MK number of 1 right? Personally I think that's the most envious accomplishment :)

And I'll stop mocking the whole thing now... It's actually quite cool
 
o_O wtf

how come?

I've co-authored a published paper on cancer, I've performed and released a tape with a member of Groove Armada and I've appeared on TV with Sabine Schmitz. Touring Mars worked out my Erdős Number to 6 for the first, Groove Armada gets to Sabbath in 2 for a Sabbath Number of 3 and Sabine Schmitz goes through Top Gear to Kevin Bacon (via Michael Fassbender) in for a Bacon Number of 4.

And yes, I pulled that face too when I read Brian Cox's Tweet and realised I could have a finite EBS number.


Don't US sports people traditionally start out in college and get Bachelor's degrees before turning pro? Might be some good money in Erdős there if there's any publications - and Bacon and Sabbath are easy to get to then through guest appearances.
 
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PeterJB > Timothy Redmond > Valery Gergiev > Lang Lang > Katherine McPhee > Carlos Santana > Peter Green > Mick Fleetwood > Dave Walker > Black Sabbath.

Gives me a Sabbath Number of 9.
 
I've co-authored a published paper on cancer, I've performed and released a tape with a member of Groove Armada and I've appeared on TV with Sabine Schmitz. Touring Mars worked out my Erdős Number to 6 for the first, Groove Armada gets to Sabbath in 2 for a Sabbath Number of 3 and Sabine Schmitz goes through Top Gear to Kevin Bacon (via Michael Fassbender) in for a Bacon Number of 4.

And yes, I pulled that face too when I read Brian Cox's Tweet and realised I could have a finite EBS number.


Don't US sports people traditionally start out in college and get Bachelor's degrees before turning pro? Might be some good money in Erdős there if there's any publications - and Bacon and Sabbath are easy to get to then through guest appearances.

Holy hell. I don't even know what to say, haha

that's a lot of stuff to tell your grandchildren about.

You know, the numbers stuff.
 
My daughter doesn't quite get it, nor know who many of the other people are, but thinks it's quite cool.

I'm planning on putting it on my cv. I never did have the cheek to put that I was Time Person of the Year in 2006 (also true... but ballsy).


PeterJB > Timothy Redmond > Valery Gergiev > Lang Lang > Katherine McPhee > Carlos Santana > Peter Green > Mick Fleetwood > Dave Walker > Black Sabbath.

Gives me a Sabbath Number of 9.

Eight - Walker is in Sabbath so he has a Sabbath number of zero. Now we need to get a Bacon number for you and get you published :lol:


I might keep track of GTP members' E/B/S numbers actually. That'd be fun :D
 
Famine
I'm planning on putting it on my cv. I never did have the cheek to put that I was Time Person of the Year in 2006 (also true... but ballsy).

You know full well you can't slip something like that into a post without someone asking...

...what?

Also, I might look into whether I have a Sabbath number, through a musical friend I played a set on BBC Radio York with a few years back. I know he's done other stuff, so we'll see.
 
Time Person of the Year in 2006 was "You", representing people who provide the content that makes up the internet.

Thus it's very true but, at the same time, daft.
 
I'm just wondering if PJ Harvey and/or Damon Albarn have sabbath numbers.

If they do then that means that I've recorded with a guy who was in a band with a guy who played at the John Peel memorial gig along with them, or would that be too vauge a connection anyway, even if Albarn and/or Harvey did have those numbers?
 
I wouldn't even know how to begin investigating such a thing. It's conceivable that I have a Sabbath number and a Bacon number, what with being a performing musician in college and having appeared on TV, even national TV, both as a musician and while working sporting events. I'm not published, though, and so an EBR number is out.

I just couldn't even start to imagine how to track who's been where with whom, however.

And my TV stuff would not be credited, but I would be a recognizable face in the band or in a working group. That would count, right? :dopey:
 
I'm just wondering if PJ Harvey and/or Damon Albarn have sabbath numbers.

Most certainly. Albarn's Gorillaz have included half of The Clash, most of Big Audio Dynamite and large chunks of The Verve. Albarn will have a Sabbath number.

If they do then that means that I've recorded with a guy who was in a band with a guy who played at the John Peel memorial gig along with them, or would that be too vauge a connection anyway, even if Albarn and/or Harvey did have those numbers?

Performed with is fine - James Randi's Sabbath number comes from him performing on the same stage at the same time as Alice Cooper...
 
My daughter doesn't quite get it, nor know who many of the other people are, but thinks it's quite cool.

I'm planning on putting it on my cv. I never did have the cheek to put that I was Time Person of the Year in 2006 (also true... but ballsy).




Eight - Walker is in Sabbath so he has a Sabbath number of zero. Now we need to get a Bacon number for you and get you published :lol:


I might keep track of GTP members' E/B/S numbers actually. That'd be fun :D

Does my Bacon number still count if a musician I'm distantly linked to made a cameo in a film? Or do I need to have acted with one and them with another? Because I haven't acted (outside of Drama class) a day in my life!
 
Is this first time ever that Famine has not used bold in one of his posts?

So I'm not an 18 because I've actually met Famine?

Edit: Music..never beyond a piano recital or two, and TV for some elementary-school production later shown on closed-circuit TV for other schools in the district.
 
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Nope. Just meeting doesn't count for any of them.

Does my Bacon number still count if a musician I'm distantly linked to made a cameo in a film? Or do I need to have acted with one and them with another? Because I haven't acted (outside of Drama class) a day in my life!

Bacon numbers are only through mutual TV/film appearances.
Sabbath numbers are only through mutual musical performances or releases.

If you've played guitar with a guy who was in American Werewolf in London, you don't have either a Bacon or Sabbath number - at least not down that path.


I've not acted either, but I have been on TV. Six times that I recall.
 
Most certainly. Albarn's Gorillaz have included half of The Clash, most of Big Audio Dynamite and large chunks of The Verve. Albarn will have a Sabbath number.



Performed with is fine - James Randi's Sabbath number comes from him performing on the same stage at the same time as Alice Cooper...

It would be good to work out what Sabbath number I have then. Now I need to get published along with someone with a finite bacon number, and get in a film with someone with a finite bacon number. I'm sure I can do that... :nervous:
 
I need to work on my Sabbath number - pretty unfortunate that it is not simply based on personal connections, otherwise I'd have a Sabbath number of two, based on the fact that my mate Bill knows a couple of members of Sabbath.

My Erdős number is 5 via my publications with my Ph.D supervisor. I also have a connection of 2 to a Nobel laureate, but I haven't been able to beat 5 via that route.

My Bacon number is 4 (thanks to Famine for discovering that) by virtue of appearing as an extra in a BBC drama starring Charles Dance, filmed on the campus of Glasgow University.

My musical appearances are few and far between, but I should be able to come up with a Sabbath number. I could manufacture one by recording or performing something with my little cousin, who is a professional musician who has played with several big bands, but I haven't done that yet.

Does a mutual musical performance include other bands who also played at the same event, e.g. as a support act??
 
Generally speaking, it seems not. It appears to be a requirement to perform on the same stage at the same time - or release media with both names on it.
 
OK, I have a Sabbath number :)

I once played in a band called The Devotionals, which then became Sacred Heart Losers, and subsequently Saint Jude's Infirmary. As The Devotionals, we played one live gig - a Budweiser-sponsored "Battle Of The Bands" event in a bar in Dundee. Sadly, there is no record of that, other than the personal testimony of myself, Mark Francis and Grant Campbell... I can't remember who our drummer was.

Anyhoo, my band mates Mark Francis and Grant Campbell went on to play in St. Jude's with the brilliant Cat Myers. Cat toured with a German guitarist called Timo Gross, who once played as a session musician with Chris Norman (of Smokie) according to Gross's own biography. Chris Norman released a single with Suzi Quatro, and Quatro recorded a track with Cozy Powell, of Black Sabbath.

So, my Sabbath number is 6:

Me - Mark Francis - Cat Myers - Timo Gross - Chris Norman - Suzi Quatro - Cozy Powell (Black Sabbath)

So, with my Erdős number of 5, and Bacon number of 4, and Sabbath number of 6, that gives me an EBS number of 15 :D
 
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