Who would win this race?

[Joecool593]

Nobody - and I mean nobody - makes worse seats than the ones in a Ford from about 1990-2000.

Ya got me there...

 

[deftones__07]

i would have to say the honda, just because i have one and let me tell you right now that those things run for freakin ever!! The mercedes is fast ofcourse but i will have faith in the accord becuase i think that in some wierd miracle that the accord will beat the mercedes.

 

[Klostrophobic]

You're counting on a weird miracle for the Accord to win?

Are you a degenerative gambler by any chance?

 

[The Vanishing Boy]

I like voting for the underdog especially if it against MBZ.

 

[Dave A]

Since this second gu is good enough to win something I would assume he knows racing linces ect but at that point he can't use a car to it's full potential, with that in mind the Merc's performance advatage coupled with a driver who has raced before and won even if it's far frm F1 has a big enough advantage to beat a great driver in the Accord. That is also assuming he can keep the car on the track. I could beat Schuey if he was in a Mini one and I was in a BMW M3. I've driven at Brands hatch and it's fantastic and I've only driven Lime rock in racing sims. At first you said the persom in the Merc has track experience, but if he were to have NO experience on a track, unless he was very natural at controling a car I doubt he would stand much chance.

 

[240Z]

i would have to say the honda, just because i have one and let me tell you right now that those things run for freakin ever!! The mercedes is fast ofcourse but i will have faith in the accord becuase i think that in some wierd miracle that the accord will beat the mercedes.

Please, refrain from posting ever again.

How could 9 people think the accord would win?

Insanity, I tell you!

 

[1X83Z]

Nobody - and I mean nobody - makes worse seats than the ones in a Ford from about 1990-2000.

Have you seen Pontiac seats in the mid-90s? They could take anybody.

 

[///M-Spec]

How could 9 people think the accord would win?

Insanity, I tell you!

Not really. There is no question the C43 is faster than a 4 banger Accord. The question is this: is the C43 so overwhelmingly superior to the Accord that a novice driver can still lap at the same speeds a professional race car driver can at a technical, handling intensive circuit like Lime Rock?

My guess is NO. But that is just a semi-educated guess. I don't know what kind of driver Doug is and I've never been to Lime Rock. I DO know that people who HAVE driven at Lime Rock has described it as a deeply handling intensive course with some very technical turns. The main straight is also preceeded by a VERY fast downhill right hand sweeper that takes experience and a sizeable brass pair to negotiate at full speed.

I also know from experience that a novice driver who is new to track or autocross driving will be SO far behind an moderately experienced driver that the car will make very little difference. A Pro driver may as well be in another dimension. Is this other guy really a pro? Or is he just an average track junkie with a couple years experience? Is the Accord stock? If he is comfortable with Lime Rock, then I doubt it. All he needs is a good brake upgrade and some R comp tires and he'll likely wipe the floor with you.

DeMuro, I would not take this bet if I were you. I suspect you will be in for a nasty surprise. A couple of autocross runs is nowhere enough seat time to qualify you as anything other than a track newbie. A place like Lime Rock, by all accounts is not a place where a newbie should be trying go 10/10ths on his first day. Run this course cold and you'll end up going agricultural at turn one. If you manage to stay on the road, the Accord will likely leave you for dead in the esses and there is not enough straightaway for you to catch him with just horsepower. By the time you get to the back straight, you'll have to screw up enough courage to take the downhill diving run; he set up the car right and take it full out ---are you going to have the balls to do the same?

If you had a couple of days of instruction, a few sessions to get comfortable with the track and maybe some time to prep the car, you may have a chance. But if this guy has some real experience, maybe not. If he really IS a pro, then you can fuggetaboutit.


M

 

[///M-Spec]

Those of you who read my above post with skeptiscm:

http://www.scca.com/_Filelibrary/File/2003SoloNationals.pdf

The above link is the 2003 results for the SCCA Solo II National Championships. The event is run on 2 courses. Each driver gets 3 runs on each course and their best times are added together for a final score.

Take a look at Super Stock class, which is the one of the fastest classes for street cars. The 1st place winner had a fastest run of 57.211 on course 1. The fastest run of the last place driver was 64.792 on the same course. Both drivers were in Corvette Z06s and on the SAME DAY, on the SAME COURSE and in essentially the SAME stock car, there was an 7.581 second difference between the top driver and the last place driver. A buttwhooping of biblical proportions.

Now take a look at a slower class. Let's try G Stock. You'll notice this class is populated with most Celica GTs, Neon ACRs and Mini Cooper Ss. The champion had a fastest time of 60.836 on course 1 while the last place guy managed a 78.922, for a whooping 18 second difference. The slowest Celica GT got a 77.437 on his only clean run. That's a split time of 16.6. Someone call Kofi Annan because someone's been seriously violated here.

So what's my point you ask?

The fastest Celica GT turned a 60.836. The slowest Z06 turned a 64.792. The difference between the fastest car in the fastest class and the fastest car in one of the slower classes is ONLY 3.625 seconds, while the difference between the fastest DRIVER and the slowest driver in the SAME CAR is 7.5 seconds for the Vette and 16.6 for the Celica.

Its not WHAT you drive, folks. Its HOW you drive.


M

 

[1X83Z]

Its not WHAT you drive, folks. Its HOW you drive.


M

At a certain point, it becomes what you drive.

I think the mistake you're making is forgetting that I'd get a half an hour to work it out - about 18 laps (I said twelve in the first post; it's a little off). So any issues with the track that I have trouble with on lap one or two should be rectified by lap 12 or 13. Granted, Montoya (or Senna, or Tony Stewart) would have those same laps, but if he's really "that good" he should have it figured out by lap two. And he's still driving the 4-cylinder automatic front-wheel drive Honda Accord sedan. I don't think you understand the drastic differences in handling and acceleration between the two vehicles. I don't think it would even be a question of keeping up through the turns - I think the turns are winnable. The straights are no question.

 

[///M-Spec]

At a certain point, it becomes what you drive.

I think the mistake you're making is forgetting that I'd get a half an hour to work it out - about 18 laps (I said twelve in the first post; it's a little off). So any issues with the track that I have trouble with on lap one or two should be rectified by lap 12 or 13. Granted, Montoya (or Senna, or Tony Stewart) would have those same laps, but if he's really "that good" he should have it figured out by lap two. And he's still driving the 4-cylinder automatic front-wheel drive Honda Accord sedan. I don't think you understand the drastic differences in handling and acceleration between the two vehicles. I don't think it would even be a question of keeping up through the turns - I think the turns are winnable. The straights are no question.

It becomes what you drive when you are in the top tier of professional motorsports. For most of us mere mortals, the limiting factor is not the car. I just proved it in my post with the SCCA results.

And if you think that half an hour at Lime Rock is enough for you learn the track and drive your C43 to its full potential, it is you who are mistaken. I don't think you understand the drastic difference a good driver can make vs. a total newbie. Sorry to put it so bluntly Doug. But unless you are a one-in-a-million freak of nature with amazing inborn talent for motorsports, 12 or 13 laps ain't going to do it.

That's like saying most people here just need 12-13 laps of practice to beat the front runners in the Weekly Racing Series. Now that's a laughable thought.

Besides, you didn't answer some of the questions I had:

-What is the experience level of your (hypothetical) opponent in the Accord? Its clear he is not really Pro (even though your poll suggested he was)

-Is the Accord stock? If NOT, then what's he done to it?

-Have you ever been on a track before? Have you gotten ANY instruction at a driving event?

-Did you even read my post with the SCCA results?

But hey, you don't have to believe me. Try it for yourself. Who knows, maybe it turns out Accord guy actually ain't all that good and you smoke him. Make sure you take a video.


M

 

[Klostrophobic]

That's like saying most people here just need 12-13 laps of practice to beat the front runners in the Weekly Racing Series. Now that's a laughable thought.

No it isn't. I could beat anyone there if you gave me a drastically better handling and accelerating car.

You don't have to drive the Mercedes at it's full potential. I see two huge straights at Lime Rock for the Mercedes to pick up huge amounts of time. Assuming the person driving the Accord drives it at 100 percent full potential, the Mercedes driver probably only needs to scoot around the corner at 60 percent potential. And at 60 percent potential, I bet the Mercedes comes close to matching the handling of the Accord at 100 percent potential. If that makes any sense.

The Benz is rear-wheel drive, has more than twice as much power, and accelerates to 60 almost 3.6 seconds quicker.

 

[///M-Spec]

No it isn't. I could beat anyone there if you gave me a drastically better handling and accelerating car.

On the first day you've ever played GT3? I don't think so. Remember, Doug is a track virgin.

You don't have to drive the Mercedes at it's full potential. I see two huge straights at Lime Rock for the Mercedes to pick up huge amounts of time. Assuming the person driving the Accord drives it at 100 percent full potential, the Mercedes driver probably only needs to scoot around the corner at 60 percent potential. And at 60 percent potential, I bet the Mercedes comes close to matching the handling of the Accord at 100 percent potential. If that makes any sense.

The Benz is rear-wheel drive, has more than twice as much power, and accelerates to 60 almost 3.6 seconds quicker.

Let me ask you something. Look at my post above with the SCCA results. Do you think the last place Z06 driver was 7.5 seconds behind the leader because he didn't go all the way to Topeka to win? Was he just taking a Sunday drive?

The Celica GT is down how many horses compared to the Z06? Almost 250??? How many Z06s did the first place Celica beat??

Pushing the car to 100% and actually getting the car to 100% are 2 very different things. These skills take a lot of seat time to learn.

Look. You don't have to believe me. I'm curious to see how this will play out myself; which is why I really want to know how good this Accord guy is. Experience and skill > car.

EDIT: Think about the 60% comment. If the C43 is capable of apexing T1 at say... 48 mph, and the Accord can do it at say... 46 mph. The guy in the C43 pushing at 60% is going to get creamed. He'll be rounding the corner at 28 mph!! And if you think the Merc has enough power to catch a car with a 18 mph headstart and is still accelerating to the best of its ability before T2 comes up, you'd be wrong.


M

 

[-Fred-]

I see two huge straights at Lime Rock for the Mercedes to pick up huge amounts of time.

Huge? Those straights are pretty small, actually, as the circuit is only 1.53 miles long. If your Benz driver's going at only 60% through the curves, there's a fair chance he'll get beaten, even though he's quickly gaining time in the straights. And, like M-Spec said, I'd like to see Doug take the last downhill sweeper like one of those top dogs...

 

[neanderthal]

i should first point out that the accord pictured is an EX model or a V6 model. 5 lugnuts, dx and lx four bangers get four lugnuts.

to the point at hand.


if its a halfway competent driver, the mercedes wins. its tuned to go fast and turn somewhat. heck the driver could be me and id win, and im not a professinal race driver of any sort. while the pro driver could carry 20mph more through the corners, i could make that up within 4 secs on the straights.
also the weight difference between the cars is too small. the power difference is too big. tuned V8 vs emissions friendly four banger? lets be real.

of course if my mom was driving the result would be different. she would lose if the pro driver was crippled and had to ride a bicycle. with flat tires. same if some of the posters here were drving based on their apparent intellect.

ps the reliability of recent mercedes hasnt gone down noticably. the QC has. most of the problems with them are due to build location(vance alabame, home of the m class, a vehicle that has almost singlehandedly dulled mercedes' star) and the proliferation of electronic doo dads. the drivetrains (engine, transmission and so on) are just as reliable as ever. they are however seriously, let down by marketing gizmos bruoght to market without sufficient testing.

-----------------------------


from no name straight theres really only one slow corner. and by that i mean we are talking about full weight passenger cars here, not full race stripped out race cars. as passenger cars these are not going to get to the huge speeds as the course is not that long. so the full speed attack that some of you mention is really only gonna be 40- 60 mph. on the uphill section i say the merc gains and maintains its lead all the way to the end of the front straight.
ps the DX accord is handicpped by ****ty all season s rated tires. the benz is on sticky z rated stufff.

 

[1X83Z]

It becomes what you drive when you are in the top tier of professional motorsports. For most of us mere mortals, the limiting factor is not the car. I just proved it in my post with the SCCA results.

The SCCA times are still comparing performance cars, which is the difference here.

And if you think that half an hour at Lime Rock is enough for you learn the track and drive your C43 to its full potential, it is you who are mistaken. I don't think you understand the drastic difference a good driver can make vs. a total newbie. Sorry to put it so bluntly Doug. But unless you are a one-in-a-million freak of nature with amazing inborn talent for motorsports, 12 or 13 laps ain't going to do it.

A total newbie? I told you in the first post that the hypothetical person driving the C43 has won an entire Mercedes autocross event. With a CLK55, granted, but against some great drivers driving some modified cars. I autocross once or twice a month. I haven't driven on a track in a long time, but I understand a racing line.

That's like saying most people here just need 12-13 laps of practice to beat the front runners in the Weekly Racing Series. Now that's a laughable thought.

Any half-decnt driver could beat a front-runner in the Weekly Racing Series driving a rear-wheel drive car if one of the front-runners was driving a front-drive car with half the horsepower, the same weight, no suspension tuning, and unbelievably worse handling.

-What is the experience level of your (hypothetical) opponent in the Accord? Its clear he is not really Pro (even though your poll suggested he was)

He's driven a car before two or three times. That's not the issue anymore, though - he's practically conceded. The thread's become much more interesting this way. If you actually want to see it played out, ... sorry.

-Is the Accord stock? If NOT, then what's he done to it?

Full stock, including the tyres. Obviously we're not riding on the same set of tyres as from the factory, but I'm sure my tyres are more performance-oriented than any Accord DX. The Accord might have special wheels a carbon-fiber hood or something.

-Have you ever been on a track before? Have you gotten ANY instruction at a driving event?

No instruction. I've been on a track two or three times but never with a real car. See above someplace.

-Did you even read my post with the SCCA results?

Yes! And if you think comparing the best Celica GT driver to the worst Corvette Z06 driver is the same as comparing the best Accord driver to a decent C43 driver, you're wrong.

i should first point out that the accord pictured is an EX model or a V6 model. 5 lugnuts, dx and lx four bangers get four lugnuts.

What you didn't manage to catch is that the C-class is actually a C36, not a C43.

The Accord pictured is in the first set of press pictures Honda released when the Accord debuted in 1998. It's an LX V6.

she would lose if the pro driver was crippled and had to ride a bicycle. with flat tires. same if some of the posters here were drving based on their apparent intellect.

Classic.

 

[///M-Spec]

A total newbie? I told you in the first post that the hypothetical person driving the C43 has won an entire Mercedes autocross event. With a CLK55, granted, but against some great drivers driving some modified cars. I autocross once or twice a month. I haven't driven on a track in a long time, but I understand a racing line.

Sorry, but I thought you said you had no track experience. You said 'won an autocross', not 'I have 10 HPDEs under my belt at Infineon Raceway and Laguna Seca'. What kind of Mercedes autocross? Is this a Merecedes-funded press event? Or some kind of club?

He's driven a car before two or three times. That's not the issue anymore, though - he's practically conceded. The thread's become much more interesting this way. If you actually want to see it played out, ... sorry.

Booooooo!!! First you changed all the variables on us, now we don't even get to see which group was right. I thought this was actually going happen. What a jip!

Any half-decnt driver could beat a front-runner in the Weekly Racing Series driving a rear-wheel drive car if one of the front-runners was driving a front-drive car with half the horsepower, the same weight, no suspension tuning, and unbelievably worse handling.

Eh. Not if it was the first time you've played GT3. I was trying to compare a newbie to a veteran racer.

The SCCA times are still comparing performance cars, which is the difference here.

Yes! And if you think comparing the best Celica GT driver to the worst Corvette Z06 driver is the same as comparing the best Accord driver to a decent C43 driver, you're wrong.

I don't see that. The Celica GT (base GT NOT GT-S) is similarly down on power compared to a Z06. Weighs a bit less and has much lower levels of handling. Its a fine example. Go compare the H-Stock times if you don't like the Celica comparo. H-Stock is an even class slower.

Not that it matters anymore.


M

 

[1X83Z]

Sorry, but I thought you said you had no track experience. You said 'won an autocross', not 'I have 10 HPDEs under my belt at Infineon Raceway and Laguna Seca'. What kind of Mercedes autocross? Is this a Merecedes-funded press event? Or some kind of club?

A Mercedes-funded press event? Are you off your tree? Do they have autocrosses at press events? That'd be cool. We're talking about an offshoot of the northeast region of the Mercedes-Benz Club of America. It wasn't even an official event. Think 25 guys in a huge parking lot with cones and Mercedes'. But there were some powerful and quick cars, winning was no easy feat.

Booooooo!!! First you changed all the variables on us, now we don't even get to see which group was right. I thought this was actually going happen. What a jip!

Changed all the variables?! They've been the same since post one!

I don't see that. The Celica GT (base GT NOT GT-S) is similarly down on power compared to a Z06. Weighs a bit less and has much lower levels of handling. Its a fine example. Go compare the H-Stock times if you don't like the Celica comparo. H-Stock is an even class slower.

The Celica, in any current form, is a performance car, though, as is the Z06. The C43 is a performance car; the Accord is a midsize sedan. The Accord DX is the most basic form of Accord.

Not that it matters anymore.

Disappointed, are we?

 

[///M-Spec]

A Mercedes-funded press event? Are you off your tree? Do they have autocrosses at press events? That'd be cool. We're talking about an offshoot of the northeast region of the Mercedes-Benz Club of America. It wasn't even an official event. Think 25 guys in a huge parking lot with cones and Mercedes'. But there were some powerful and quick cars, winning was no easy feat.

Congratulations. I had no idea Mercedes clubs even DID autocrosses. You beat the other drivers, btw. Not the cars.

Changed all the variables?! They've been the same since post one!

Dude, this is what you wrote in your first post.

The top car is being driven by the world's greatest driver. Ever. Think Schumacher, or Montoya, or whoever you consider the world's greatest driver to be. Some of you probably think Jeff Gordon or Kevin Harvick or that dude who drives for Home Depot who kicks everyone's ass. Tony Stewart. The bottom car is being driven by an okay driver: participated at a few autocrosses, won one, has owned several performance cars. Some guy.

Nowhere did you mention ANY track experience. And it turns out this "Schumacher" is just someone who's "He's driven a car before two or three times".

Now if that's not a bait n' switch, I dunno what is.

The Celica, in any current form, is a performance car, though, as is the Z06. The C43 is a performance car; the Accord is a midsize sedan. The Accord DX is the most basic form of Accord.

On paper, the gap between a Z06 and a Celica GT is as wide as a C43 and a DX Accord. You either think too much of the Celica or your C43 if you don't agree. I don't see much point in beating this dead horse; disagree all you want.

Disappointed, are we?

Sure. I was ready to start a pool on this. I was going to be nice and give you 4 to 1 odds, but since you've chickened out I guess there's no point.


M

 

[1X83Z]

Congratulations. I had no idea Mercedes clubs even DID autocrosses. You beat the other drivers, btw. Not the cars.

It wasn't a Mercedes club event - just about 20 Mercedes club owners who organized it unofficially. I'm proud to say I'm not a member of the Mercedes club (though I won't go any further for fear that you're a member of every BMW club ever created).

Nowhere did you mention ANY track experience. And it turns out this "Schumacher" is just someone who's "He's driven a car before two or three times".

Because, I wanted to prove to him that no-one could beat me in an Accord DX, be it Schumacher, Senna, or the person I was having the discussion with. So I made the thread illustrating the best possible driver to see everyone's opinion. I never said the thing would take place!

Nowhere did you mention ANY track experience.

First post: The bottom car is being driven by an okay driver: participated at a few autocrosses, won one, has owned several performance cars. Some guy. Like I said, I've driven on a track a few times, years ago, in pathetic cars. That's hardly "track experience."

Sure. I was ready to start a pool on this. I was going to be nice and give you 4 to 1 odds, but since you've chickened out I guess there's no point.

I'll race you. But you'd have to find an Accord DX.

 

[///M-Spec]

It wasn't a Mercedes club event - just about 20 Mercedes club owners who organized it unofficially. I'm proud to say I'm not a member of the Mercedes club (though I won't go any further for fear that you're a member of every BMW club ever created).

Haha. You wish. I was a card carrying BMWCCA member for exactly 2 years. I let my membership expire because I learned more from mailing lists than I did from the Roundel and my chapter held exactly 1 event a year the whole time I was a member.

Everytime I go to a BMW forum, I'm amazed at the amount of crying and whining that goes on there. Only 1 in about 50 members have anything worth contributing.

Because, I wanted to prove to him that no-one could beat me in an Accord DX, be it Schumacher, Senna, or the person I was having the discussion with. So I made the thread illustrating the best possible driver to see everyone's opinion. I never said the thing would take place!

Jip. Jip. Jip.

First post: The bottom car is being driven by an okay driver: participated at a few autocrosses, won one, has owned several performance cars. Some guy. Like I said, I've driven on a track a few times, years ago, in pathetic cars. That's hardly "track experience."

Track is not autocross. They are different events. If I went to an autocross last weekend, I wouldn't tell someone "I tracked my car over the weekend". Just like if I owned a DX Accord I wouldn't tell someone "I have a C43".

I'll race you. But you'd have to find an Accord DX.

Heh. I never, EVER claimed I was a Schumacher. Or even anywhere close. I'm pretty damn average: not a complete newbie, but nothing special either. In fact, I'm so rusty that my skills have probably degenerated back to near-newbie again.

If you want to try a REAL expert, go to an SCCA event and try your luck against a Divisional level driver. He'd kick your butt in Civic... or a Neon... or a Hyundai Elantra.

I'll play. But I'm driving the ZHP.


M

 

[1X83Z]

Haha. You wish. I was a card carrying BMWCCA member for exactly 2 years. I let my membership expire because I learned more from mailing lists than I did from the Roundel and my chapter held exactly 1 event a year the whole time I was a member.

Yeah - I hate the damn owners' clubs. To me it's not the whining, but the sheer arrogance of all of the owners. I can't take it!

Jip. Jip. Jip.

You know, it's spelled "gyp"? Because the origin of the word is "gypsy" as in "I got gypped" or "I got gypsied". "Gypping" someone, the theory is, is something that a gypsy would do. I swear! Look it up!

Track is not autocross. They are different events. If I went to an autocross last weekend, I wouldn't tell someone "I tracked my car over the weekend". Just like if I owned a DX Accord I wouldn't tell someone "I have a C43".

I know! That's why I didn't mention track experience because I have none! The only track experience I have, aside from video games, is with a Toyota Cressida in the mid-1990s.

Heh. I never, EVER claimed I was a Schumacher. Or even anywhere close.

I know, but you want a race to take place, so I figured I'd ask you.

I'll play. But I'm driving the ZHP.

That trash? Pah - I could take it in a Civic. Or a Neon. Or a Hyundai Elantra.

 

[///M-Spec]

I know, but you want a race to take place, so I figured I'd ask you.

That trash? Pah - I could take it in a Civic. Or a Neon. Or a Hyundai Elantra.

Bring it on Dougie Boy.

HERE's the Atlanta SCCA club schedule. You drive the C43. I'll drive the 330. Give me several weeks notice to clear it with the wife. Saturday events would be much better for me.

Friendly race. Loser buys dinner.


M

 

[1X83Z]

Saturdays? There's freaking two. And one is next Saturday!

Anyway - I'm fairly confident I'd lose. If you know how to drive a manual transmission on a track.

 

[///M-Spec]

Saturdays? There's freaking two. And one is next Saturday!

Well I'm 5 hours from Atlanta-- I'd have to take a Monday off to make a Sunday event.

Anyway - I'm fairly confident I'd lose.

You never know. I COULD just be a 12 year old who can't drive at all.

If you know how to drive a manual transmission on a track.

I've driven a manual or two.

M

 

[Victor Vance]

I voted for the Accord with Ken Schrader behind the wheel

 

[1X83Z]

Well I'm 5 hours from Atlanta-- I'd have to take a Monday off to make a Sunday event.

In Tennessee I'm about three hours in a straight line but god forbid there be one of those (it's really like four and a half). Still - I can't give up one of my only two relaxing days of the week for you! I'd have to fly back straight from Atlanta, too, or I'd have to miss a Monday. Then I'd have to leave the car at Hartsfield. Or I'd have to fly down straight from New York on a Friday meaning I'd be car-less. Logistically it's poo.

You never know. I COULD just be a 12 year old who can't drive at all.

If you were a 12-year-old, your brain wouldn't have been warped by BMW and you'd admit the entire line is poo.

I've driven a manual or two.

Well. I'm only asking because it'd take days for me to get a manual down on a track. I have trouble with SportShift autocrossing. And you said you were rusty.

 

[///M-Spec]

In Tennessee I'm about three hours in a straight line but god forbid there be one of those (it's really like four and a half). Still - I can't give up one of my only two relaxing days of the week for you! I'd have to fly back straight from Atlanta, too, or I'd have to miss a Monday. Then I'd have to leave the car at Hartsfield. Or I'd have to fly down straight from New York on a Friday meaning I'd be car-less. Logistically it's poo.

Dougie... if you're scared, just say so.

If you were a 12-year-old, your brain wouldn't have been warped by BMW and you'd admit the entire line is poo.

Face it. You're afraid of my poo. My poo frightens you.

Well. I'm only asking because it'd take days for me to get a manual down on a track. I have trouble with SportShift autocrossing. And you said you were rusty.

That's because SportShift is the work of the devil, and he is a notriously bad driver. (Though I hear he's a pretty good guitar player)


M

 

[1X83Z]

Dougie... if you're scared, just say so.

Scare this.

Face it. You're afraid of my poo. My poo frightens you.

I ended two of my three paragraphs with 'poo'.

That's because SportShift is the work of the devil, and he is a notriously bad driver. (Though I hear he's a pretty good guitar player)

I thought he was more of a fiddler.

 

[BeN_SpeC2]