Why are the recent seasonals so difficult?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Operation Ivy
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For me as a below-average driver the seasonals always have eben challenging. Every time I have to try hard to enter the 5000. :irked:
Still a lot of people complaining about GT6 being too easy. Maybe PD studied the result-tables (if not GT Planet :)) and adjusted the level of difficulty.
Kaz checking the tables: "Don't waste time on new tracks or B-Spec. We've got to make it harder for them!!!"
 
Well in the FT-1 Seasonal they took the training wheels off (SRF) for the first time in a very long time, but the window between Gold and the top times, 1:40.xx last time I checked, is quite small, smaller than many were in GT5 anyway. It's a silly way for PD to up the difficulty. Far better to keep everything the same and just have separate leaderboards for ABS1 only and another for any and all other aids. Everyone can play the way they want, and the diehards, like me, can compete equally playing the game as a "sim" (ABS1 only) and not arcade (SRF etc.) like most of the TT's the last year or so.
 
Because they are designed to challenge you, as the game rightly should.
I'm liking the move from PD to start taking it away from the "I want everything easy" mindset that everyone's falling into, because you should need to work for it.

And anyway, they're still stupidly easy compared to old GT games.
 
hsv010
Because they are designed to challenge you, as the game rightly should.
I'm liking the move from PD to start taking it away from the "I want everything easy" mindset that everyone's falling into, because you should need to work for it.

And anyway, they're still stupidly easy compared to old GT games.
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While I understand and agree with your philosophy, we also need to accept that some people just don't have the time to put into the game to be good enough to get the prizes and money from Seasonals, my only dilemma is, I don't want the whole thing dumbed down to the lowest common denominator for everyone, to please the most casual of users. If SusieAverage wants to throw SRF and TC on and it helps her get the prize, that doesn't detract from my "sim" experience, if I can also compete with other "sim" players in a separately accounted Seasonal. Everyone wins!!!
 
Johnnypenso
While I understand and agree with your philosophy, we also need to accept that some people just don't have the time to put into the game to be good enough to get the prizes and money from Seasonals, my only dilemma is, I don't want the whole thing dumbed down to the lowest common denominator for everyone, to please the most casual of users. If SusieAverage wants to throw SRF and TC on and it helps her get the prize, that doesn't detract from my "sim" experience, if I can also compete with other "sim" players in a separately accounted Seasonal. Everyone wins!!!
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PD still gives us the bells and whistles in the aids department (TC on karts, not exactly a shining moment), but after people profusely begging for harder events, we get things which require some skill or effort, and apparently it's too hard.
 
hsv010
PD still gives us the bells and whistles in the aids department (TC on karts, not exactly a shining moment), but after people profusely begging for harder events, we get things which require some skill or effort, and apparently it's too hard.
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Because they weren't really clamouring for "harder" events, just for events that don't require you to have SRF on to compete for a world class time or to even get the gold in many cases. We/PD doesn't have to favour one group over the other or pick sides, everyone can win, just allow the "sim" guys to compete with "sim" physics and everyone else to compete with "arcade" physics. PD's ongoing issue is they don't know how to implement options or different paths to the same thing without shooting one group or the other in the face.
 
I have to agree with Johnny not the best way to do it multiple leader boards makes sense as numerous people have mentioned otherwise you alienate the casual driver who cant get the paint.

However I am pleased as its the first sign I have seen that PD are actually listening & trying to do some things we ask for.
Not perfectly implemented but they could do it straight away with no coding so you get 3 time trials SRF on, off or your choice.
They at least seem to be trying so all of us that whinge need to acknowledge that, we may even get what the community wants later on.

Easy solution for now is probably for SRF on & off time trial give the same prize & let you choose which one you want to enter.
If you don't like SRF don't do the race no one is forcing you to.
If you cant gold the SRF off race go do the SRF on one.
 
For many reasons there needs to be waaaaay more seasonals covering a much wider cross section of track, car and setting selections. As long as we're getting a pathetic 3 events every two weeks there's always going to be a large section of players unhappy with what's there.
 
TRC GeorgiaDawg
For many reasons there needs to be waaaaay more seasonals covering a much wider cross section of track, car and setting selections. As long as we're getting a pathetic 3 events every two weeks there's always going to be a large section of players unhappy with what's there.
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I just want actual races, rather than all this time trial crap.
 
Anomaly and Johnnypenso have nailed it. I've been playing since the original Gran Turismo, but since I don't have a five second advantage (all you purists call that a "wheel") I've got no hope of golding a couple of these events. I'm nearly 40 now, have REAL cars to work on, a house, and other commitments. Back when I was a teenager, I could do 30 or 40 laps to try and get gold (had all gold everything and all cars on GT1 and GT2 thank you very much), but now there's this thing called "life" that has other priorities with it. These time trials have got to go. This is supposed to be a "racing" simulator, I didn't know they meant "bracket racing" (that would be racing a clock for you non-drag racers out there.) Beatin' and bangin' and kickin' up grass and scrapin' walls is reality, folks. The only racing where you go one at a time and are racing nothing but a clock is Rally, and those guys bounce off of everything!
 
To me the main difficulty in this particular trio of seasonals is that you have to change your mindset with each one. One has SRf forced, one has it denied, and then there's that moronic rolling ice machine. I'm a method driver who uses manual trans religiously (except for the X cars) and I had to crash every single corner to get used to the braking. For the others, while I'll peek to see what car is favored (I never pick correctly on my own) I do my own basic tuning and keep in mind what aids are on/off, and within 6 laps had all three golds. It's not really difficult, it just requires a bit of thought and acceptance of what's on offer. That FT1 garbage was just PD earning some sponsorship and I wish the game had true damage so I could send Toyota a picture of what I did to their car before getting gold.
 
NOSaholic
Anomaly and Johnnypenso have nailed it. I've been playing since the original Gran Turismo, but since I don't have a five second advantage (all you purists call that a "wheel") I've got no hope of golding a couple of these events. I'm nearly 40 now, have REAL cars to work on, a house, and other commitments. Back when I was a teenager, I could do 30 or 40 laps to try and get gold (had all gold everything and all cars on GT1 and GT2 thank you very much), but now there's this thing called "life" that has other priorities with it. These time trials have got to go. This is supposed to be a "racing" simulator, I didn't know they meant "bracket racing" (that would be racing a clock for you non-drag racers out there.) Beatin' and bangin' and kickin' up grass and scrapin' walls is reality, folks. The only racing where you go one at a time and are racing nothing but a clock is Rally, and those guys bounce off of everything!
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So what you're saying is they need to cater to the 40 year old group who can only play 10 minutes a day? I personally took 15 minutes top on each of the seasonals using a DS3. It was also my first time not using SRF as I always have everything on.

Just face it, you said it yourself, you're getting older and have other priorities. Stop trying to get things made easier because you can't do them anymore. These are completely optional and are there to give you a challenge.
 
Berserage
So what you're saying is they need to cater to the 40 year old group who can only play 10 minutes a day? I personally took 15 minutes top on each of the seasonals using a DS3. It was also my first time not using SRF as I always have everything on.

Just face it, you said it yourself, you're getting older and have other priorities. Stop trying to get things made easier because you can't do them anymore. These are completely optional and are there to give you a challenge.
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Did you even read what the people I referred to posted? No, you didn't, you just shot from the hip. Go read what they posted, THEN maybe you can make an intelligent response to my post.
 
NOSaholic
Did you even read what the people I referred to posted? No, you didn't, you just shot from the hip. Go read what they posted, THEN maybe you can make an intelligent response to my post.
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I read it and it was a bunch of crying and excuses. Nerfing seasonals to the point that it lets everyone gold them with no problem defeats the purpose. You already said you finished the older GT games. Maybe this is a sign that you are no longer as good as you used to be. The seasonals don't need to be nerfed for this reason.
 
Berserage
I read it and it was a bunch of crying and excuses. Nerfing seasonals to the point that it lets everyone gold them with no problem defeats the purpose. You already said you finished the older GT games. Maybe this is a sign that you are no longer as good as you used to be. The seasonals don't need to be nerfed for this reason.
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No one is asking for the Seasonals to be nerfed. What @NOSaholic and most other intelligent people are saying is, they realize there are all kinds of gamers out there, and in GT's case, most of them are just casual gamers. Having difficult and challenging Seasonals is great...for the guys the put a lot of time into the game. They can compete at the highest level. That doesn't mean the more casual players should be excluded from the competition due to level of difficulty or you risk alienating them.

Separate leaderboards are the answer that works for everyone. Hardcore? Take all the aids off and there's a leaderboard for you. Semi-hardcore? Use ABS and no other aids and there's a leaderboard for you. SusieSunday169? What the heck, throw all the aids on and even you can win some prizes.

See how that works? Everyone is happy, everyone can enjoy the game, everyone has something that works for them, instead of PD's usual, ONE-SIZE-FITS-ALL approach.
 
Johnnypenso
No one is asking for the Seasonals to be nerfed. What @NOSaholic and most other intelligent people are saying is, they realize there are all kinds of gamers out there, and in GT's case, most of them are just casual gamers. Having difficult and challenging Seasonals is great...for the guys the put a lot of time into the game. They can compete at the highest level. That doesn't mean the more casual players should be excluded from the competition due to level of difficulty or you risk alienating them.

Separate leaderboards are the answer that works for everyone. Hardcore? Take all the aids off and there's a leaderboard for you. Semi-hardcore? Use ABS and no other aids and there's a leaderboard for you. SusieSunday169? What the heck, throw all the aids on and even you can win some prizes.

See how that works? Everyone is happy, everyone can enjoy the game, everyone has something that works for them, instead of PD's usual, ONE-SIZE-FITS-ALL approach.
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Next you'll be asking for a leader board for people who don't know how to brake. Seasonals are completely optional and every leaderboard will still have casuals sitting at the bottom crying about how hard the game is. This is a damn game. If you can't put in the time you don't deserve to have things handed to you. I HIGHLY doubt game sales will drop because people can't win optional events. I just can't fathom how casuals expect to have things that they don't deserve.. this sounds like an MMO thread. PD needs to focus on things that actually matter.
 
Berserage
I read it and it was a bunch of crying and excuses. Nerfing seasonals to the point that it lets everyone gold them with no problem defeats the purpose. You already said you finished the older GT games. Maybe this is a sign that you are no longer as good as you used to be. The seasonals don't need to be nerfed for this reason.
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Sorry but that's sad you also said

Just face it, you said it yourself, you're getting older and have other priorities. Stop trying to get things made easier because you can't do them anymore. These are completely optional and are there to give you a challenge.
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The key is the last part > give you a challenge & everybody is at a different level.
According to your logic PD should gear them so they are hard for guys who are normally in the top 100 & stuff everyone else.

So the guy has other commitments & cant devote the time you do, he still paid his money & needs to be catered for which is a recurring point that's raised all over this forum.

That said I don't see the need for everything to be winnable.
 
Hard Core @Johnnypenso? Explain how GT can be hard core, I'm really eager to read this. The way GT is played now, it's far from hard core.
 
Berserage
Next you'll be asking for a leader board for people who don't know how to brake. Seasonals are completely optional and every leaderboard will still have casuals sitting at the bottom crying about how hard the game is. This is a damn game. If you can't put in the time you don't deserve to have things handed to you. I HIGHLY doubt game sales will drop because people can't win optional events. I just can't fathom how casuals expect to have things that they don't deserve.. this sounds like an MMO thread. PD needs to focus on things that actually matter.
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Yes it is a game...that's all you needed to say. Everything else you said is in direct contradiction to that.

Zuel
Hard Core @Johnnypenso? Explain how GT can be hard core, I'm really eager to read this. The way GT is played now, it's far from hard core.
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GT is what it is. Hardcore is in the effort and commitment some people put into the game, has nothing to do with how good or bad the game is.
 
I haven't seen any huge difference in difficulty, although I haven't tried much seasonals, also I'm slowly getting used to GT again.
 
Wide Boy
Sorry but that's sad you also said



The key is the last part > give you a challenge & everybody is at a different level.
According to your logic PD should gear them so they are hard for guys who are normally in the top 100 & stuff everyone else.

So the guy has other commitments & cant devote the time you do, he still paid his money & needs to be catered for which is a recurring point that's raised all over this forum.

That said I don't see the need for everything to be winnable.
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I'm saying that they are at a good difficulty level now. Most people can get silver or gold in a good amount of time if they try. The top 100 aim to get good times on leader boards, the people who actually work at it and try to improve without getting it handed to them get gold and are done and then the casuals cry because they can't get it done in 10 minutes because they have a "life".
 
NOSaholic
Anomaly and Johnnypenso have nailed it. I've been playing since the original Gran Turismo, but since I don't have a five second advantage (all you purists call that a "wheel") I've got no hope of golding a couple of these events. I'm nearly 40 now, have REAL cars to work on, a house, and other commitments. Back when I was a teenager, I could do 30 or 40 laps to try and get gold (had all gold everything and all cars on GT1 and GT2 thank you very much), but now there's this thing called "life" that has other priorities with it. These time trials have got to go. This is supposed to be a "racing" simulator, I didn't know they meant "bracket racing" (that would be racing a clock for you non-drag racers out there.) Beatin' and bangin' and kickin' up grass and scrapin' walls is reality, folks. The only racing where you go one at a time and are racing nothing but a clock is Rally, and those guys bounce off of everything!
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Can people stop using a DS3 as an excuse? Some of the fastest in the world use a DS3.

And also this is Time Attack.
 
Why are the recent seasonals so difficult?

My hypothesis is because most people spend most their time in GT6 on RS tyres, so when they are forced to drive on sports or comfort tyres they have very little experience of that, which means that in addition to finding the best lines around the track they also have to struggle with basic car control.
 
Zuel
Hard Core @Johnnypenso? Explain how GT can be hard core, I'm really eager to read this. The way GT is played now, it's far from hard core.
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What would you know about hard core. I assume you actually play the game,tune in the game, (sorry "step tune") ,participate in FITT challenges,time trials etc. I know us mere mortals can't understand camber, classes, game sounds as well as some, but then again, I think we actually play the game.
 
eran0004
Why are the recent seasonals so difficult?

My hypothesis is because most people spend most their time in GT6 on RS tyres, so when they are forced to drive on sports or comfort tyres they have very little experience of that, which means that in addition to finding the best lines around the track they also have to struggle with basic car control.
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On RS tires with SRF on you mean:lol:. A survey of open lobbies at any given point would seem to back you up, and you would assume people who make it on line are really into the game. I consider myself a decent pilot and it takes me a few laps to get used to the switch from Comfort Softs to Sport Mediums and vice versa. If you're used to RS tires, driving on SH or CS must feel like driving on ice.
 
What I don't understand about the community (and reflected in the existence and discussion of this thread), is the way they see the "win" in the seasonal.

For most it's: gold-> win | everything below -> not a win

This benchmark is set totally wrong, it should be:

Bronze -> Win | Everything Below -> not a win

I'm guessing most people can get bronze (if not all), or even silver. Why base complains on the gold benchmark?

Gold is what it is, the hardest of a particular seasonal event, not something for the average driver. The average driver should achieve bronze, the lowest win. If someone wants silver or gold, more power to them, but don't expect it without effort. They are not for instant gratification.

I still think seasonals are too easy. Far too easy. I am already driving stock without SRF to have a challenge (a real one for gold). I will only be satisfied when there is an event where I can't achieve gold. When that happens I will know the difficulty is set about right. (I only play a max of 10h per 14days (average 7h per 14 days), so anyone who plays more should be more able to gold them).

The difficulty is about right when these people who are now complaining about not getting gold could barely make it to bronze (The lowest win).

(Off course this would imply changing the difference between gold-bronze times). A 107% rule should be fine (like F1).

This mentality that everyone is entitled to gold is insane. Bronze is there for a reason. It means you passed the challenge. Want more recognition? work for it. Want to be the best? look at the leaderboards.

I am expecting people responding, that "oh the leaderboards are the challenge, you don't need to make the game so hard". If this reasoning is followed then the point of having the gold,silver,bronze trophies is none, because everything is justified with the leaderboard being the challenge. The Trophies are benchmarks, and the benchamark for a win is the bronze trophy. If the times follow a normal distribution, bronze should be calculated a priori on the expectations of average time + 1 standard deviation.
 

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