Why are the recent seasonals so difficult?

[bluecharger]

I hear what you say, but remember there are varying levels of players - from very casual to hard-core. The very casual guys would probably not give a damn about the bad habits, since in all likelihood they would probably only play the game for a couple of months in any event?

But when you put it all together, just how many games are "we" asking for? A daily driver, open-form driving around towns and deserts, drifting, drag racing, circuit racing, street racing, long storied careers, interconnected internet events....at the moment, I'd be happy to see a good SINGLE game from PD. I am getting curious about the genesis of SRF though. Was there any general outcry online before GT5 that the game's actual driving was "too hard"? Or did PD's physics start falling apart and they needed some kind of "glue" to hold things together for a wide swath of folks?

 

[Johnnypenso]

I responded to your post with the proposal, as it'll be easier for me to make sure I hit everything.
Bronze: It's far too easy for "prizes" now, IMO. Why on earth would you award every prize an event has to offer for this? GT5 had more collectability, so each prize was valued by a goodly number of participants, and was the reward, IMO, to try harder (as opposed to climbing the rankings being the reward).
Silver: Two things....if you're not a typical gold-medalist, why would you bother, other than "just that tiny bit more...." that drives those who want gold now? And the whole question of separate leaderboards for this and that is simply wish list stuff, IMO. There are far bigger fish to fry in this game, IMO.
Gold: ONLY ABS? You're asking PD to create a whole new rewards tier and you're going to insult them by suggesting their brakes aren't up to snuff? Then there's my pet peeve: is sharing setups allowed for this? So Joe Shmoe from Pocono can just input CargoRatt's latest and greatest hit and exclude me? Within current rankings, I'm a top-10,000 player. Some weeks I can't be bothered, and take my 9,852 and feel just fine. Some weeks I like the combo presented, and I'm up there at the 2ks. Why should my mood exclude anyone from a reasonable outcome? There are folks playing this game that only "play the game" until they get their hands on a X car and do everything possible to never touch another car again. Likewise, folks collect 60's Japanese throw-arounds because they look cool with modern pearl paints and tiny racing wheels and never touch another car. PD's aim should be to bring those folks in more, not find new ways to segregate us further. And no one who thinks a '71 240Z is "just fast enough, thank you" wants to even consider something like a Viper GTS without some TC.
Platinum: You guys feel free to make up your own award. You're the ones who think you're in "competition". Perhaps you could propose an event to PD along the lines of bone-stock, with no aids whatsoever? Pick your tranny, adjust your steering sensitivity, and t-t-t-t-t-that's all folks! Then every single player is on a level playing field.

Please understand, it's not that I don't care for new ideas, or incentives, but everyone who bought this game deserves some pleasure from it. Many find ways to make their own entertainment where PD has "failed" to do so. You guys already have an entire forum to track your exploits. Why does PD need to officially "recognize" this?

You failed to answer my question again and contradicted yourself again as well. You said you guess

that less than half win all the gold prizes correct? So how does my suggestion of allowing more casual players easier access to prizes while still maintaining the extra challenging levels for those that want it, drive people away from the game?

And nowhere did I say the brakes are not up to snuff. Feel free to quote me as necessary.

 

[Bo]

HEY!

TCS and SRF for the Karts were necessary, saved me from giving up them for good!!!! So spare a damn thought for the casual players!!!!!

What you need is to learn how to drive them. It is not "necessary" in the slightest.

You'll have a bad time in life if you want somebody to come up with their own solutions to your problems, which can be solved through basic practice.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Don't get me wrong, I agree with most people here so far, but at the same time I still like a challenge.
My biggest problem is time. I don't own any of the 15m or 20m credit cars, I can't afford them, but I would still like to try them. I don't have enough time to grind a race for however 3-4 hours JUST to buy one car.
PD are changing things for the wrong reasons, giving us features we can't use...

How about making it a bit easier to earn money?
Make the game playable for EVERYBODY, not just the ones who have it running for 3-4 hours or more every day.

I'm with you on that. Not so popular but I'm all for a series of modes in GT. Online career, offline career, classic GT, and even sandbox where you get all the cars at the beginning of the game.. Not hard to do from PD's end, just programming, and it let's you play in one or any of the modes simuultaneously. I can do an offline career when I don't want to go online, a separate online career when I'm in the mood, or sandbox when I just want to drive or have access to everything. Imagine the increased playability with such a system!!!

 

[bluecharger]

You failed to answer my question again and contradicted yourself again as well. You said you guess

that less than half win all the gold prizes correct? So how does my suggestion of allowing more casual players easier access to prizes while still maintaining the extra challenging levels for those that want it, drive people away from the game?

And nowhere did I say the brakes are not up to snuff. Feel free to quote me as necessary.

I didn't say you said that, I interpreted the desire to keep ABS1 available in the face of "no aids" to mean that however. Why would you differentiate? Would what you propose lose a little gleam if "no aids" meant just that? Why? because you personally find the game annoying or difficult without ABS? Or do you think it would be difficult to even attract 1000 people if they all had to sit there through the hours of testing and practice needed to get that high whilst listening to the horrid sound effects? That would be my vote, btw. And TC is a real life driving aid. How do you exclude this? As to the reward system, if you show me the cookie, I want the cookie. Making me jump through "special" hoops is going to piss me off, making it impossible is going to alienate me. PD doesn't want me looking for their competition right now. They and Sony have made a ton of money off me in the past and wish for more. You're looking for recognition for something a relative handful of you enjoy doing. PD is trying to sell millions of copies, and artificial barriers create conflict. I'm missing something....please point out how I contradict myself.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I didn't say you said that, I interpreted the desire to keep ABS1 available in the face of "no aids" to mean that however. Why would you differentiate? Would what you propose lose a little gleam if "no aids" meant just that? Why? because you personally find the game annoying or difficult without ABS? Or do you think it would be difficult to even attract 1000 people if they all had to sit there through the hours of testing and practice needed to get that high whilst listening to the horrid sound effects? That would be my vote, btw. And TC is a real life driving aid. How do you exclude this? As to the reward system, if you show me the cookie, I want the cookie. Making me jump through "special" hoops is going to piss me off, making it impossible is going to alienate me. PD doesn't want me looking for their competition right now. They and Sony have made a ton of money off me in the past and wish for more. You're looking for recognition for something a relative handful of you enjoy doing. PD is trying to sell millions of copies, and artificial barriers create conflict. I'm missing something....please point out how I contradict myself.

Still avoiding answering directly and bringing up red herrings like ABS. Let me know when you can answer directly how my proposal drives people away from the game and then we can talk again.
Have a nice day.

 

[DeifieD]

All this drama and still no baby mama

 

[bluecharger]

Still avoiding answering directly and bringing up red herrings like ABS. Let me know when you can answer directly how my proposal drives people away from the game and then we can talk again.
Have a nice day.

I really don't know how else I can put it or why you're getting steamed about anything. I thought it was a cool discussion.
Simply put, tiers create conflict. It's up there^^^^. In a game as messed up as GT6 is right now, singling out and super-rewarding a small handful of darn-near professional video game players tells the "littles" that they have no place in GT6. If you don't agree, fine. But I've stated it a few ways now. Haven't avoided it at all.
And how is ABS a "red herring"? YOU brought it up? And included it in your little "no aids....except...." party. *EDIT: No excuse at all for what was here; my apologies for any misunderstanding, JohnnyP. Yup, time to take a break. all!

 

[Zuel]

You still haven't answered my original


Well Zuel would you mind posting 1 of your "core base" FITT tunes that I have never seen?
Camber in VR does not apply to this game,but now you agree 0/0 is correct
Classes? Can you still answer my question or are you going to avoid this also?

Zuel said
Mid size class 400 to 465pp, full size class 562 to 600pp.


I've already answered you question.

If you got to take the time to make a mem as they're called or anyone, then you got trouble. LOL OH MY GOSH, starting to hurt. LOL.

So what "class" do 466 to 561 PP cars fall into?

The last time I entered a FITT event was in GT5, didn't even bother developing a set for the challenge for GT6. As for 0.0 camber correct, NO, does it work YES, simple. If you look at the stock pp number along with recognizing the car class. Examples: Cadillac CTS-V Coupe '11 "Full size car" PP 521, Honda Integra (DC5) '03 "Compact car" PP 421, Nissan Fairlady Z (Z34) '08 PP 461 "Mid-size car". As you can see as the class increase or decrease the PP number changes as well. The PP system still factors in decade of that car due to the performance cars have gotten better as the years go on. Now I answered your question twice about the car class, group pp number.

 

[Samus]

The last time I entered a FITT event was in GT5, didn't even bother developing a set for the challenge for GT6. As for 0.0 camber correct, NO, does it work YES, simple. If you look at the stock pp number along with recognizing the car class. Examples: Cadillac CTS-V Coupe '11 "Full size car" PP 521, Honda Integra (DC5) '03 "Compact car" PP 421, Nissan Fairlady Z (Z34) '08 PP 461 "Mid-size car". As you can see as the class increase or decrease the PP number changes as well. The PP system still factors in decade of that car due to the performance cars have gotten better as the years go on. Now I answered your question twice about the car class, group pp number.

You're still just making those classes up yourself.

 

[Zuel]

You're still just making those classes up yourself.

How am I making up those classes when a Cadillac is a full size car, the zed a mid-size or so on? DO you know anything of car classes? OH I forgot this is Gran Turismo..

 

[Samus]

No, I've never heard anyone separate cars for racing by such vague classes just as there is no trace on the web of anyone step tuning their car. They are also not specified in GT6 which yes, is important since we're talking about that game.

 

[Jay.]

How am I making up those classes when a Cadillac is a full size car, the zed a mid-size or so on? DO you know anything of car classes? OH I forgot this is Gran Turismo..

A Honda Integra = 'Compact' ??
In Europe a 'compact' car would be more suited to a Fiat 500, VW Lupo or Ford Ka. An Integra is certainly not classed as compact over here, and comparing to the huge Kei and small car market in Japan the same would apply there.
Defining classes this way in a car game that is played worldwide would not be viable as they have different variables depending on which part of the world you live.

 

[DeifieD]

A Honda Integra = 'Compact' ??
In Europe a 'compact' car would be more suited to a Fiat 500, VW Lupo or Ford Ka. An Integra is certainly not classed as compact over here, and comparing to the huge Kei and small car market in Japan the same would apply there.
Defining classes this way in a car game that is played worldwide would not be viable as they have different variables depending on which part of the world you live.

A Cadillac Coupe is also not a full size car, it's a coupe. So I agree with you...

 

[Jay.]

A Cadillac Coupe is also not a full size car, it's a coupe. So I agree with you...

Good point, a coupe, I missed that. Aren't full size supposed to be large four door cars such as the Cadillac XTS or Audi A6 etc.?

Also as an afterthought...
Terms such as 'Full Size', 'Mid Size' and 'Compact' have never really been commonly used as a classification in the UK and Europe. I always saw it mainly as an American thing.

 

[Zuel]

No, I've never heard anyone separate cars for racing by such vague classes just as there is no trace on the web of anyone step tuning their car. They are also not specified in GT6 which yes, is important since we're talking about that game.

You really looked on the web for step tuning? LOL. You never worked in a shop I take it.

 

[Samus]

You really looked on the web for step tuning? LOL. You never worked in a shop I take it.

So what are you saying, step tuning is a mysterious practice that only occurs in tuning garages, but nobody has ever documented it online?

 

[Jay.]

So what are you saying, step tuning is a mysterious practice that only occurs in tuning garages, but nobody has ever documented it online?

Must tune a lot of guitars in his garage.

 

[Jbaffoh]

I've been a 1/2 step detuner; tuning to E-flat when trying to sound like Stevie Ray Vaughan.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I really don't know how else I can put it or why you're getting steamed about anything. I thought it was a cool discussion.
Simply put, tiers create conflict. It's up there^^^^. In a game as messed up as GT6 is right now, singling out and super-rewarding a small handful of darn-near professional video game players tells the "littles" that they have no place in GT6. If you don't agree, fine. But I've stated it a few ways now. Haven't avoided it at all.
And how is ABS a "red herring"? YOU brought it up? And included it in your little "no aids....except...." party. *EDIT: No excuse at all for what was here; my apologies for any misunderstanding, JohnnyP. Yup, time to take a break. all!

Again, you contradict your own position. You've already said that less than half of people get gold on TT's. Therefore, try to follow along now, these tiers that "create conflict" (your words not mine) are already in the game aren't they?

You obviously didn't read my post at all did you? I did not advocate for any "super rewarding" of a handful of professional video game players. In fact, the opposite. I suggested making the prizes easier to get and allowing anyone that wishes to, to use any aids they desire to get the prizes and making them fairly easy to attain. What were the prizes I advocated for the really competitive players? Accolades! Nothing more. No more money, no more paint chips, no more nothing. Just accolades, along with the ability to compete with more "sim" settings.

 

[killerjimbag]

How am I making up those classes when a Cadillac is a full size car, the zed a mid-size or so on? DO you know anything of car classes? OH I forgot this is Gran Turismo..

The last time I entered a FITT event was in GT5, didn't even bother developing a set for the challenge for GT6. As for 0.0 camber correct, NO, does it work YES, simple. If you look at the stock pp number along with recognizing the car class. Examples: Cadillac CTS-V Coupe '11 "Full size car" PP 521, Honda Integra (DC5) '03 "Compact car" PP 421, Nissan Fairlady Z (Z34) '08 PP 461 "Mid-size car". As you can see as the class increase or decrease the PP number changes as well. The PP system still factors in decade of that car due to the performance cars have gotten better as the years go on. Now I answered your question twice about the car class, group pp number.

So Zuel I guess these guys wouldn't know what size a Cadillac is
http://www.caranddriver.com/features/second-look-2014-cadillac-cts-sedan-feature
Pretty sure it says MID SIZE!
So let me explain this to you in terms you might understand.
I believe the word you are looking for is Categories.
To get all technical on you,maybe read this also.
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/car-and-driver-vehicle-type-guide-buying-guide

SUB COMPACT :
COMPACT :
MID SIZE :
FULL SIZE :
SUV :
PICK UP :
That is the only "categories" of cars/trucks in North America.Unless you want Station Wagons included.
There is no "class" of cars in this game,nor in North America.

You still never answered my question.
So what "class" do 466 to 561 PP cars fall into?
According to your previous post, you classed your Cadillac wrong.It's only 521? Which must be the, "no class, class." According to you, full size is 562 and up class. How did you miss that?
Zuel said
Mid size class 400 to 465pp, full size class 562 to 600pp.

To quote Van Halen "CLASS DISMISSED"

What the hell is this supposed to mean?Do you actually read anything before you post?
The PP system still factors in decade of that car due to the performance cars have gotten better as the years go on.

You really looked on the web for step tuning? LOL. You never worked in a shop I take it.

What shop do you happen to work at,just out of curiosity?
Step tuning, or maybe your confusing it with a Step Side http://www.holley.com/VirtualShow/chevy/C/10step-side/1633.asp

 

[Zuel]

So what are you saying, step tuning is a mysterious practice that only occurs in tuning garages, but nobody has ever documented it online?

When building a car to perform better than stock is done is steps. You add this and you add that to see how it works. "Step ONE" Next step and so on and so on, tuning in steps. And you think you can find everything on-line? Give me break, get out of the tube.

SUB COMPACT :
COMPACT :
MID SIZE :
FULL SIZE :
SUV :
PICK UP :
What shop do you happen to work at,just out of curiosity?
Step tuning, or maybe your confusing it with a Step Side http://www.holley.com/VirtualShow/chevy/C/10step-side/1633.asp

Congrats you found out about the car classes great work. Shops I've worked for "WF" or worked with "WT". WF; Dessert Rat off road, WF: Black Mountain Speed. WT: Bullet Proof Automotive 'TOP SECERT" Segial USA, Greddy, SoCal Speed,
Atlantic Motorsports, Tri-State Speed shop. ANd I'm about to start working with OG Speed in Va very soon once I get a shell. I can go but I rather not. A step side truck on the front page, very nice.

Addition:
Can't forget about RX before they closed down. The first shop to sell the R33 and 24 in the state legally.

 

[Jbaffoh]

Wow. So you can't magically change everything simultaneously and make it all perfect before testing it?

EVERYTHING IN LIFE is done in steps--especially when doing by trial and err. This game is no different. So, what's your point about "step tuning?"

 

[Johnnypenso]

Wow. So you can't magically change everything simultaneously and make it all perfect before testing it?

EVERYTHING IN LIFE is done in steps--especially when doing by trial and err. This game is no different. So, what's your point about "step tuning?"

I got that one covered:

 

[killerjimbag]

Quote="Zuel, post: 9562337, member: 121689"]When building a car to perform better than stock is done is steps. You add this and you add that to see how it works. "Step ONE" Next step and so on and so on, tuning in steps. And you think you can find everything on-line? Give me break, get out of the tube.



Congrats you found out about the car classes great work. Shops I've worked for "WF" or worked with "WT". WF; Dessert Rat off road, WF: Black Mountain Speed. WT: Bullet Proof Automotive 'TOP SECERT" Segial USA, Greddy, SoCal Speed,
Atlantic Motorsports, Tri-State Speed shop. ANd I'm about to start working with OG Speed in Va very soon once I get a shell. I can go but I rather not. A step side truck on the front page, very nice.

Addition:
Can't forget about RX before they closed down. The first shop to sell the R33 and 24 in the state legally. [/quote]
I found classes? No, I did not, it's called proper use of the English language. I guess all those Automotive publications had it wrong for the last 50 years.
So when you want a car to perform better than stock,you "add this and add that" really? So all these shops you "worked for" just slapped parts on to see how it worked. In steps! OK! I got it now. I'm assuming, they are all still in business?
I believe, somewhere beyond all this BS, you actually might be on to something.You know, you might want to send a letter to PD and enquire,why they called it, engine tuning stage 1 and not step 1. While your at it, grab a dictionary and read what stages means. Wow,wow,wow.

 

[Polsixe]

The ones with the car provided and no tuning are hard, for a DS3 like myself. The red disqual zones seem to be very tight and unforgiving. Some of the gaps from gold to silver seem pretty large, when you are cutting .25 sec per lap, another 3 secs to go is a little daunting. I was able to gold 9/10 TT in GT5 but it's less with GT6, probably not trying so hard anymore. When I can tune a car from my own garage gold 's are much easier and almost automatic.

 

[killerjimbag]

Yes you are correct. GT6 is a completely different game.

 

[bluecharger]

Again, you contradict your own position. You've already said that less than half of people get gold on TT's. Therefore, try to follow along now, these tiers that "create conflict" (your words not mine) are already in the game aren't they?

You obviously didn't read my post at all did you? I did not advocate for any "super rewarding" of a handful of professional video game players. In fact, the opposite. I suggested making the prizes easier to get and allowing anyone that wishes to, to use any aids they desire to get the prizes and making them fairly easy to attain. What were the prizes I advocated for the really competitive players? Accolades! Nothing more. No more money, no more paint chips, no more nothing. Just accolades, along with the ability to compete with more "sim" settings.

Seriously? You took your break, I took mine, and this is what you come back with? someone else began proposing yet more changes nobody needs, and you took his proposal one step further, providing magical hoopla for yourself and others in a miniscule class of GT players. When I posted a mild objection you began demanding to know the reasons for my impertinence. So I broke it down for you, point by point. I pointed out the needlessly elitist class nature of the entire proposal along with a couple of glaring self-aggrandizing exemptions and exceptions you made for yourself and you became mildly unstable. When you got shrill and incomprehensible, we both knew it was time to go to separate corners. Someone apparently doesn't know what a "time out" is for.

Do not condescend to me or anyone else that plays this game. You're not qualified. I do not need the pretty baubles for a 3rd place effort, I'll earn them the old-fashioned way, the way I've earned every credit, ranking, and bauble in this game. Seasonals are not GT Academy, and "we at the bottom" do not live to look up to and adore you. That you're actually able to go back through all the idiotic BS of the morning and still come back with "Accolades! Nothing more. No more money, no more paint chips, no more nothing. Just accolades, along with the ability to compete with more "sim" settings" shows the true nature of your ego trip. I started out this conversation liking and respecting you, JohnnyP. That I disagreed with your idea was not going to change that. How you handled that disagreement, however, is a totally different story. Before I feel really petty and start pointing out the obvious parts of my responses you completely failed to address in regards to your own "place in history", I'll end with the note that I ended our morning chat on a note of regret and friendship. It's up to you now. Cheers.

EDIT: My apologies to Divinus for the statement "someone else began proposing yet more changes nobody needs, and you took his proposal one step further". Divinus simply questioned how some look at what is "considered" a win for Seasonal TTs. Divinus did not in the post propose any changes other than the player's mindset and his/her own opinion of the timing benchmarks. JP alone perverted Divinus' post into a cheap grab for personal glorification. My apologies for my own confusion of the original intention once the onslaught by the glory hound began.

 

[dQuim]

I like that they've started creating seasonals with different difficulties. Having events that have either SRF on or off was a good move, as it caters for a wider range of ablity levels. It took me 15 minutes to gold the Peugeot lap, and 30 minutes to gold the RX-7 lap whilst working on a tune. At no point was it hard to see where I was losing time. I play on DS3 btw.

When I think back to the seasonal time trials in GT5, I think it was harder to get gold on those than the ones in GT6. The race event seasonals were easy, even with a car well below the PP limit.

 

[Maddens Raiders]

I too am older now, and have been playing GT since the PSOne days as well. Funny thing is; I'm still getting faster, every day.