Why CSA is just ridiculous and should be banned for wheels

[nuu1212]

Come on guys, you all know that using CSA with a wheel is just plainly ridiculous!
The option should only be active for controller settings. (Suggest this to PD please)

- The whole point of using a wheel is that you want to steer the car as the real thing.
- The Force Feedback gets messed up - strange forces when the correction gets active
- Some of you guys keep saying 'it does not make me faster' and then 'just resting my arms' or 'just a safety net' or 'just makes me more consistent' Don't be ridiculous. It helps a lot, it prevents spinning, so you can drive on the limit more consistently and thus are way faster on average. Don't you dare to say: "Oh, I can countersteer like god - in principle - but sometimes I just need to rest and leave it to the electronics."

I can already hear some of you saying "What about TCS then?" But don't confuse things here. TCS is not fundamentally ridiculous. A race series might allow or disallow it. The same should go for GT races. At the moment it is (unfortunately) allowed in every race. (Another possible improvement for PD)

Note Added:
Just to make one point clear:
I am not complaining, whining or moaning. Nor am I telling people what to use or accuse them for anything.
I am just ridiculing the serious, even top notch drivers that use CSA.
I think that ridicule is stronger than any argument here.

 

[Cowboy]

I use countersteer assist, however I use a controller. Regardless, if it helps people race more competitively, I don't see it as being an issue.

 

[ghost30]

I'm going to copy and paste what I wrote in another thread weeks ago about this topic...

CSA does exist irl. I believe this is Gran Turismo's version of ESC/DSC (Electronic Stability Control or Dynamic Stability Control)... which seems to achieve the same goal as "CSA". This is what CSA seems to be in this game. It isn't a huge advantage btw. At least with a wheel it isn't. In fact, I'm generally faster without Stability Control.

 

[ShiftingGears]

I also see its use being to increase parity between wheels and controllers. I don't know what it's supposed to address when it's available for every input method.

 

[LennyB]

I see it as a video game aid and I would rather race against less experienced people with either wheel or controller using it instead of having them crash all over the place and me. I don't see it has much advantage personally, not as much as simple rubber banding or boost or any other name for that farce.

 

[tofuhero]

I'm not sure why you're railing against the use of CSA when ASM is allowed in Sport mode. I tried turning on ASM a couple weeks ago and it was an eye-opening experience to the level of stability improvement it gives a car and the way it magically recovers from stupid mistakes and allows over-aggressive driving. CSA on weak level only has a minor stabilizing effect and really only engages with the Gr.3 cars.

 

[MINKIHL]

Come on guys, you all know that using CSA with a wheel is just plainly ridiculous!
The option should only be active for controller settings. (Suggest this to PD please)

- The whole point of using a wheel is that you want to steer the car as the real thing.
- The Force Feedback gets messed up - strange forces when the correction gets active
- Some of you guys keep saying 'it does not make me faster' and then 'just resting my arms' or 'just a safety net' or 'just makes me more consistent' Don't be ridiculous. It helps a lot, it prevents spinning, so you can drive on the limit more consistently and thus are way faster on average. Don't you dare to say: "Oh, I can countersteer like god - in principle - but sometimes I just need to rest and leave it to the electronics."

I can already hear some of you saying "What about TCS then?" But don't confuse things here. TCS is not fundamentally ridiculous. A race series might allow or disallow it. The same should go for GT races. At the moment it is (unfortunately) allowed in every race. (Another possible improvement for PD)

For me CSA is something to help if you are lazy. Some cars are really unrealistic behaving without it.

On Roadcars I have it off, on some Racecars I turn it on.

When iam doing Setups it works for both fine and I heard so many times that You are 1 sec faster with CSA, thats simply not true. Iam with it, depending on car, bit usually 1-3 tens faster.

 

[Alpha Cipher]

I agree with you in general, but I don't think CSA is plain ridiculous

FFB is already messed up in GTS in the first place, so using it to interpret the car's situation is not going to do much. Adding a strange force to that kind of FFB wouldn't really bring down the bad FFB much more

CSA does let you rest your arms because of less countersteering, and it does make you more consistent, and it is a safety net. Those are all true. So don't say those statements are ridiculous because they say it doesn't make them faster. It does make them faster, and it's because of the very reasons they stated. (TCS serves the same principle, but applies a different and slower method if not used correctly) Some would argue their qualifying time would be the same, but in terms of race pace they'd definitely be faster.

However, I do not believe that CSA gives you an extra second like SRF back in GT6. At most it's more of 3-5/ths of a second. I believe in your stance, don't get me wrong, but I have different points as to why CSA should exclusively be for controller.

 

[NosOsH]

CSA does exist in real life...in remote control cars. Its called a D-box and its simply a gyro placed in between the radio reciever and the steering servo. If you grabbed the ass end of the car and slid it 30 or 40 degrees sideways it would CHANGE the signal you are giving the car and automatically point the tires in the direction the car was turned away from.

Its how beginner drifters learn how to keep their cars from spinning out when trying to drift. Its definately illegal in drift competitions and especially races.

TCS may be allowed in some racing classes but i doubt that its adjustable while driving or if it functions the same way as it does in the game. I personally dont think it should allowed in higher tier Dr races, but thats just me i dont really care either way.

 

[eran0004]

Come on guys, you all know that using CSA with a wheel is just plainly ridiculous!
The option should only be active for controller settings. (Suggest this to PD please)

- The whole point of using a wheel is that you want to steer the car as the real thing.

Nope. Another good point is that it gives you finer control.

- Some of you guys keep saying 'it does not make me faster' and then 'just resting my arms' or 'just a safety net' or 'just makes me more consistent' Don't be ridiculous. It helps a lot, it prevents spinning, so you can drive on the limit more consistently and thus are way faster on average. Don't you dare to say: "Oh, I can countersteer like god - in principle - but sometimes I just need to rest and leave it to the electronics."

And for those who can't countersteer like god?

TCS is not fundamentally ridiculous.

Because?

 

[Alpha Cipher]

Nope. Another good point is that it gives you finer control.

Exactly why CSA makes people faster at race pace. But I wouldn't go as far as to say it's ridiculous. Just unreasonable

And for those who can't countersteer like god?

TCS

Because?

The method TCS uses is throttle control, which potentially bogs cars down at corner exits

 

[LennyB]

There is a problem with the physics of the game, that is why the aids are and act how they do. You don't need to look any further than driving any slow car at a slow speed without abs to see that, wheel spin on low powered front wheel drive cars shows how bad it is as well.

Unrealistic physics = unrealistic aids

 

[Scaff]

TCS may be allowed in some racing classes but i doubt that its adjustable while driving or if it functions the same way as it does in the game. I personally dont think it should allowed in higher tier Dr races, but thats just me i dont really care either way.

Traction control is both permitted and highly adjustable in GT3 cars in reality.

Personally I have no issue with anyone using whatever aids they want to be able to complete in GTS, if it not being 'real' is an issue for some then GTS has much bigger issues that should be looked at first.

 

[ColinNZ]

I don't understand why people spend so much time worrying about what aids other people use.

 

[MINKIHL]

I agree with you in general, but I don't think CSA is plain ridiculous

FFB is already messed up in GTS in the first place, so using it to interpret the car's situation is not going to do much. Adding a strange force to that kind of FFB wouldn't really bring down the bad FFB much more

CSA does let you rest your arms because of less countersteering, and it does make you more consistent, and it is a safety net. Those are all true. So don't say those statements are ridiculous because they say it doesn't make them faster. It does make them faster, and it's because of the very reasons they stated. (TCS serves the same principle, but applies a different and slower method if not used correctly) Some would argue their qualifying time would be the same, but in terms of race pace they'd definitely be faster.

However, I do not believe that CSA gives you an extra second like SRF back in GT6. At most it's more of 3-5/ths of a second. I believe in your stance, don't get me wrong, but I have different points as to why CSA should exclusively be for controller.

Again it depends on the car, but still normally iam not really much slower than with countersteering, its only easier during a race to have a good stable racepace.

I have no idea why so many people complaining about it. Everyone can use it, its not like its a feature of a wheel.

The only ridiculous on all the CSA Situation are the people who drive wirhout it and after they got beaten by a other driver they start complaining and using CSA as excuse and here the CSA is a welcome point to do so.

Enjoy the game! There are way other things which have to be solved out.
Starting with BoP ending by Server

Some guy on youtube confronted me with the CSA Thema that my Setups are nothing worth because i use CSA

5 or 6 hrs ago i uploaded a Setup Hotlap with the Lexus.

6 hrs later i drove with the same setup, with the same car on the same track 1 ten slower without CSA...

On one lap its almost the same.. maybe 1-3 tens slower... bit never 0,5-1 sec slower like everybody saying...

Here the Video

 

[QTheRacer_31]

Traction control is both permitted and highly adjustable in GT3 cars in reality.

Personally I have no issue with anyone using whatever aids they want to be able to complete in GTS, if it not being 'real' is an issue for some then GTS has much bigger issues that should be looked at first.

Arguing over what's real in a video is a bit pointless anyway! I tried CSA and liked it at first then hated the loss of FFB it causes and went back to my usual TCS or no TCS setups!

I guess my driving style is not aggressive enough for it to make a significant difference. TCS helps me with consistency and prevents me from spinning when I'm stuck in a cluster f on track!

 

[MINKIHL]

Torque Car (Mustang or BMW or Vette) + TCS = Overpowerd... so why we talk about CSA?

Everyone should use that what makes him enjoying the game. With or without using the CSA. We have other problems with GTSport than the CSA

 

[eran0004]

Exactly why CSA makes people faster at race pace. But I wouldn't go as far as to say it's ridiculous. Just unreasonable

CSA make you faster because wheels give you finer control??

TCS

TCS doesn't help with countersteering.

The method TCS uses is throttle control, which potentially bogs cars down at corner exits

And why isn't that fundamentally ridiculous?

 

[choSeeCZ]

Torque Car (Mustang or BMW or Vette) + TCS = Overpowerd... so why we talk about CSA?

Everyone should use that what makes him enjoying the game. With or without using the CSA. We have other problems with GTSport than the CSA

TCS is real assist....but CSA is scifi

yes, CSA help in race, but who needs help, so turn on TCS

 

[Lebowski]

The only ban should be on the moaners who keep wanting things banned because they don't like it or can't keep up with people who are better. Stop boring people with your hissy fits and grow up - it's a game for god sake.

 

[Lazybike]

Use it don't use it, it's all good same with cars and views.

 

[QTheRacer_31]

Use it don't use it, it's all good same with cars and views.

Amen! Boys will be boys though! I get judged during my streams when I use TCS and hood view. I'm not an alpha male with big balls, I guess! I watch these "assists are for sissies" racers crash and I pick up the corpses!

Please remember it's a game! (Just realized you started the thread @nuu1212. Sorry for calling you a whiner!)

 

[IAMDOODLEBUG]

I've tried it a few times to see what the crack is, but don't notice much difference in the FR cars and found it a bit annoying to have the wheel pull the other way. The only time I used it in a race was a one make with the 4c Gr3 road car which is MR - that thing rotates very easily and if you don't counter quickly enough your speed gets scrubbed massively. CSA helped in that instance, but I rarely drive MR cars and haven't used it since.

 

[Lebowski]

The thing is, it's your game that you paid for with your money. You shouldn't have to justify your use of it to anyone - ever.

 

[nissman]

As I mentioned in all threads with this topic, CSA should be burned with fire. I see it as those little wheels you put on little girls bike so it doesnt fall over.

 

[nuu1212]

Just to make one point clear:
I am not complaining, whining or moaning, telling people what to use or even accusing.
I know I am 2sec behind the top times anyway.
You can use whatever aids/settings you like. I am just ridiculing the serious, even top notch drivers that use CSA.
I think that in a case like this, ridicule is stronger than any argument.

The term 'ban CSA' might be a bit strong, but it seriously does not make any sense for a wheel, so I'd like to see it removed, yes.

The talk about bad physics as the reason to use (bad) driving aids is just another excuse. I strongly support any effort to make the physics better.

 

[MINKIHL]

The thing is, it's your game that you paid for with your money. You shouldn't have to justify your use of it to anyone - ever.

You have no idea how often i get confronted with the CSA Thema because iam using it... sometimes (like yesterday i trained for the next EGT3M Race at Bathurst) I realize after one hour training that CSA was off... the times where like usually...

atm in my opinion TCS make you alot faster if u drive with a Torqui Car.

But now everyone will shout TCS is real and CSA is scifi... Real is real.. GT Sport is not real... its a game so come on... more annoying is the BoP...

Just to make one point clear: I am not complaining, whining or moaning or even accusing. I know I am 2sec behind the top times anyway.
You can use whatever aids/settings you like. I am just ridiculing the serious, even top notch drivers that use CSA.
I think that in a case like this ridicule is stronger than any argument.

The term 'ban CSA' might be a bit strong, but it seriously does not make any sense for a wheel, so I'd like to see it removed, yes.

The talk about bad physics as the reason to use (bad) driving aids is just another excuse.

For me CSA Topic is the same like the cutting Corner Topic.

As I mentioned in all threads with this topic, CSA should be burned with fire. I see it as those little wheels you put on little girls bike so it doesnt fall over.

So you burn little wheels from little girls with fire?...

 

[Scaff]

As I mentioned in all threads with this topic, CSA should be burned with fire. I see it as those little wheels you put on little girls bike so it doesnt fall over.

So boys automatically know how to ride a bike?

Next time leave the casual sexism at the door.

 

[Lebowski]

I hate Meganes, Sciroccos and TT's. To me they are for people who can't handle a RWD car.

But that's just my view and probably a daft one at that. This games object is to win. If people can win using a FWD car then good on them. Nothing wrong with it. Perhaps it's their safety net so they don't spin off the track and stay consistent, you know, much like CSA.

 

[QTheRacer_31]

I hate Meganes, Sciroccos and TT's. To me they are for people who can't handle a RWD car.

But that's just my view and probably a daft one at that. This games object is to win. If people can win using a FWD car then good on them. Nothing wrong with it. Perhaps it's their safety net so they don't spin off the track and stay consistent, you know, much like CSA.

Glad you left the RCZ out as it’s a pain to drive! FWD cars are not easy to drive with worn tires though... I’d take my Citroën on used tires anytime over the TT Cup. We’re going off topic now though