Why do most new Japanese Cars Lack Personality?

[Famine]

I assume there's some particular need to requote every single image Sage posted in case we all missed them the first time we had to scroll past them?

 

[MustangSVT]

So its not just me that thinks that really this thread should be about american cars...

Ya I feel the same. This thread really should be about american cars. If anything has lost personality, it's american cars.

 

[JCE]

I'm going to specifically comment on each car Sage has posted as well as adding choices of mine.

Mazda CX series = Great personality for what they are, spunky people carriers.
Mazda RX-8 = Should of never been built to look like that and have such a gutless engine. The build quality is top-notch, the interior is very good, but otherwise it feels gimmicky and soul-less. I did not have fun "thrasing it about" at all. Going from a 350Z to this and back again is like trading someone $100 for $5 and then asking for the other $95 back when you realize you've been screwed.
Civic coupe = I like the new one, I think it has VERY good personality. Even though I hate the new interior it has some serious space-theming personality. The saloon Civic is quite the opposite--its just an econobox.
Acura MDX = Nope. Great car, boring to drive.
Lexus IS = Yes and no, it has a snobbish personality...which isn't a good thing. Step out of a BMW 3-series into this and you're prespective changes dramtically. Infact the CTS has more positive sporty personality than this.
Infiniti G = So much personality it has enough left over to fund the entire Toyota lineup.
Infiniti FX = Duh. *see Infiniti G
Nissan Altima = Nope, a push button start and a CVT transmission remove what little personality it had. The previous 3.5 SE 5spd was a hoot--and it felt like it wanted you to push it. It's lost that edge.
Nissan 350Z = Duh. *see Infiniti G/FX
Acura RDX = Never drove it. Just based on visuals alone go read the MDX review.
Mazda6 = There just isn't a medium sized saloon that has more personality than this barring the Ford Fusion. The Mazda6 and especially the Mazdaspeed6 are just pure driving excellence. It acts like a puppy dog the first time you play fetch with it, it keeps bring you back the stick and wanting you to throw it again!
Mazda3 hatch = More personality than you can shake a stick at. Could possible fund the entire Kia lineup with extra personality. Saloon not so much--and my brother has one. The saloon HAS personality...just not nearly as much as the hatch.
Honda S2000 = Has more personality than the rest of Honda combined. I love them, they would be third on my roadster list behind the 350Z and SLK.
Mazda MX-5 = It lost all the personaity it had from the older model. Its bloated and fat.
Subby Impreza = Nope, its dazzling personality has been lost. You just simply can't change the TYPE of car it is and expect it to even have any of the orignal's personality. Epic fail.
Mitsubishi Lancer = All new models OOZE personality. Just look at that grille! It wants to eat your children! I love it.
Mitsubishi Eclipse = It hasn't been good since the GSX. The GSX was the baby GTO Twin Turbo AKA 3000GT VR4...it was just flooding with personality...and then they killed it...and now killed it again.
Nissan Versa = Nope, nothing here but boring practicality and reliability.
Honda Accord = Gained small personality points for the new exterior (even though I don't prefer it) but loses some on the interior...and to me it feels more "soft" than the previous model.
Honda Fit = Fit FTW, enough said. Drives like a DREAM, honestly it is epic good stuff.
Mazda5 = Could you ask for a more sporty people carrier? Has more personality than all of Japan--I'm serious its the perfect car minus a huge turbo.
Mitsubishi Galant = rubbish all the way around.
Nissan Murano = Plenty of personality. It has chrome teeth!
Subaru Legacy = Took over what the previous Impreza had and added more.
Subaru Forester = Could it get any better than the XT model? The entire model range of the Forester is just awsome.

There may be a few more but I feel it is obvious that Japan is in a null stage right now. The 80's and early 90's Toyota, Nissan, and Mitsubishi were full of personality followed by Mazda and Honda. Now they're getting on the right track--and they are putting out some models that would of surprised you about 10-15 years ago--notably the Mazda5 and Honda S2000 (now dead ).

[globally]When I narrow it down to hatchbacks for instance when I think of personality I automatically jump to--drum roll please--the Volvo C30. It has all the right kinds of personality. And in terms of mid-sized saloon cars the Mazda6 takes that crown. Crossovers? The Ford Edge does it for me in all the right places. SUVs--its a bit more difficult since they are in large the same thing all around, but the first one that pops into my mind is the Subaru Forester. Its just brilliant. Executive saloon cars--Mercedes S-class and for no other reason than its the daddy with more trinkets and gadgets than James Bond...and that's cool...and cool is a personality trait when its spoken in the same sentence as James freaking Bond.

That being said, Mazda without a doubt is one of the most-spunky car companies out there. They just seem like they don't give a damn, do what they want to do, and don't care if you don't want to buy it. They're fun to drive, fun to look at, and best of all are easy on the wallet and return those happy feelings you love.

QFT - Quoted for truth. Mazda just hits the target pretty much across the board. If the RX-8 and MX-5 were just a smidgen better they would be included on my positive personality list.

Bah. The RX-8 is a much better car than many people give it credit for. Drive one sometime. And don't just putter around in traffic and complain about no torque.. I mean really drive one. It's terrific.

I have "thrashed one" and I found it quite lacking in the fun department--especially because it was right after I drove a 350Z. That's like getting out of a BMW and getting into a Kia. Sure the Kia is probably a good car...but come on its not a BMW.

It invariably looks like a three-dimensional representation of an orgasm.
It is painted in a colour that sears your retinas.
It makes you drool like a pre-pubescent schoolboy.

Speak for yourself. The only Italian car I see with personality is the new Fiat 500 and anything with a Pagani logo. Oh, and ONE Lamborghini--the mad LP640, which is quite possibly the best Lamborghini ever. Ferrari? *yawn* What was I saying? Ferrari is way to busy trying to build surgical tools for a race track to even think about personality. And it took how many years for Audi to put the personality BACK into Lamborghini?

It inevitably looks like a taxicab.
It is silver. Or dark gray. Or silvery gray. Or dark grey-ey silver.
It makes you yawn.

I'm going to list a couple of German cars that prove your statement false.

Audi RS4
Audi RS6
Audi R8
BMW M3
BMW M5
BMW M6
BMW Z4
Mercedes AMG anything
Mercedes G Wagon (ultra pimp)
Porsche ... erm everything except the Cockxster...I mean Boxster.
Opel Speedster VX220--not really German lol

Mercedes-Benz do make sobering cars, though. I'll agree with you on that one.

I haven't driven a new C-class yet but I can tell you that you need to drive an AMG Merc. If you drive an AMG and tell me it lacks personality then you are brain dead. The CLS63 has to be one of the best things from Germany right now, it just hits all the targets dead center. I drove one, and I almost literally *ahem* got excited (same feeling as when I drove an SL55 AMG). And I didn't think that was possible...much less twice.

 

[YSSMAN]

Ya I feel the same. This thread really should be about american cars. If anything has lost personality, it's american cars.

Personally speaking, I'd disagree. Granted, there are many cars in the American lots that have nothing close to "personality" (Sebring, Avenger, Caliber, Taurus, Montego, Impala, LaCrosse come to mind), but in general, our cars are a lot better off as compared to where they were five years ago.

Its an on/off thing just like the Japanese I'm afraid. I personally think cars like the Ford Fusion and Chrysler 300C have a bit of soul, but obviously it isn't all that much.

 

[exigeracer]

The Japanese have been progressing car design far more than anyone else in the world over the last decade and a half. The only others who come close are the French.

Read that statement again. It is very bold, but very true.

 

[Tornado]

And it took how many years for Audi to put the personality BACK into Lamborghini?

Lets see...The Murcielago came out in 2001. And the LP640 didn't come out until 2006. So, half a decade to fix it after they ruined it.

Audi RS6
Porsche ... erm everything except the Cockxster...I mean Boxster.
Opel Speedster VX220--not really German lol

Que es? The RS6 is essentially the textbook definition of boring, gray and fast. The next one probably will be too. The current 911 Turbo (and the one before that) have been argued to be the same way. And the Opel Speedster hasn't been on sale for 3 years.

The Japanese have been progressing car design far more than anyone else in the world over the last decade and a half.

I still see a good portion of the Japanese automobile industry that seems to make it their sole mission to simply copy BMW and/or Mercedes (and, in recent years, General Motors). Italy, Germany and France are still so far ahead of everyone else it isn't even funny. Japan is far better at being original than they were 15 years ago, but barring a few examples they are hardly the forefront of car innovation.

 

[JCE]

RS6 Boring?

I beg to differ.

 

[Tornado]

RS6 Boring?

I beg to differ.

Just because it has more horsepower than the last RS6 did does not mean it will be the opposite of the last one. Especially when it essentially comes with a big sticker that says "I was only designed to cruise on the Autobahn" that is in the form of a front heavy, understeer enhanced AWD drivetrain (which is undoubtedly less weight or power-distribution challenged than the old one, but it won't be a Beamer M5). It simply means that that is another engine they should put in the R8.

 

[YSSMAN]

Italy, Germany and France are still so far ahead of everyone else it isn't even funny. Japan is far better at being original than they were 15 years ago, but barring a few examples they are hardly the forefront of car innovation.[/SIZE][/FONT]

I give you the Citroen C4 Picasso:

And the Alfa 159:

THAT is progressive, avant garde, styling...

 

[JCE]

Just because it has more horsepower than the last RS6 did does not mean it will be the opposite of the last one. Especially when it essentially comes with a big sticker that says "I was only designed to cruise on the Autobahn" that is in the form of a front heavy, understeer enhanced AWD drivetrain (which is undoubtedly less weight or power-distribution challenged than the old one, but it won't be a Beamer M5). It simply means that that is another engine they should put in the R8.

It has a very brutal exterior, the noise is probably insane, and its got a freaking V10...A VEE TEN. Oh yea, and its twin turbo. A V10 in a non-supercar...that's worth personality points right there.

 

[Rykon Zero]

And the Alfa 159:

THAT is progressive, avant garde, styling...

THAT makes me want to do something that is technically illegal for my age. I seriously cannot wait till Alfa starts shipping to the US. 👍

 

[Tornado]

It has a very brutal exterior, the noise is probably insane, and its got a freaking V10...A VEE TEN. Oh yea, and its twin turbo. A V10 in a non-supercar...that's worth personality points right there.

And if it is generally detached from everything involving driving on a road like it used to be, I don't think it will make any difference. Note how the Porsche Cayenne Turbo can take a twin turbo V8, brakes the size of pizzas and a shift-it-yourself-transmission, and it still drives just as much like a jacked up Camry wagon as the V6 Cayenne does.
I understand that stupidly high power cars can be as involving as low horsepower cars; but they have to, you know, try.

 

[exigeracer]

I still see a good portion of the Japanese automobile industry that seems to make it their sole mission to simply copy BMW and/or Mercedes (and, in recent years, General Motors). Italy, Germany and France are still so far ahead of everyone else it isn't even funny. Japan is far better at being original than they were 15 years ago, but barring a few examples they are hardly the forefront of car innovation.

Take a look at the show car circuit throughout the year. That is where design is being pushed forward, in an environment where regulations and feasibility are not as much of a concern as on an economy car meant to sell hundreds of thousands of units worldwide. They take those ideas and tame them down to production cars, but the radical new ideas that the Japanese have been throwing down are far more innovative than almost any American show car, particularly with the integration of new technologies in cars where you wouldn't expect them to be. There are exceptions, but the Japanese are thinking on a completely different futuristic wavelength than the rest of the world. This is what changes car design in 10 years, not cars like the 300C, which is without a doubt very creative and well-thought out design, it is nothing remotely progressive.

The Germans and Italians are constantly expanding on their own niches, luxury and carrying on high-end soulful sports cars respectfully, but I wouldn't put them in the same pool as the French. The occupant-centricity of many French ideas these days still amaze me and wish I lived in Europe all that much more.

I do have to give it to BMW though in some aspects. Like Bangles design or not, it is a different approach to cars that others seldom try. It is producing some very exceptional studies in how things will look in the future. 15 years ago, who would've thought the crossover would be anything considerable? 15 years ago, who would've predicted that stationwagons were over?

 

[Tornado]

They take those ideas and tame them down to production cars, but the radical new ideas that the Japanese have been throwing down are far more innovative than almost any American show car, particularly with the integration of new technologies in cars where you wouldn't expect them to be.

I've seen a decade of game changing Japanese concept cars with incredibly good engineering concepts in them. Off the top of my head, 2 of them have been built in that span of time. Both of them were Toyota hybrids, one of which was merely an evolution that made the first one relevant.
GM showed the Volt last year. It is coming out in two years. Tesla showed the Roadster two years ago, and they are selling this year. That's the same amount of game changing pieces from American companies in 1/5th as much time, both of which are a half-decade more recent.

 

[YSSMAN]

Uhhh, are we talking engineering on the mechanical bits and pieces or the infotainment stuff on the insides? Personally speaking, I think the Americans have leaped ahead in terms of practical solutions to problems we've been having.

...I'd consider Ford's EcoBoost and Sync programs some of the best things to come out of an American manufacturer in years...

Like Toronado pointed out, the Volt put Toyota on it's ear, and Honda finally decided to play ball with diesel power after VW and BMW got back in the game. With everyone focusing their energies on beating Toyota and Honda to the punch, more often than not, its just a balance of who can debut what sooner than the other. Most of the technologies are pretty similar across the board, the difference of course is their application.

 

[Tornado]

...I'd consider Ford's EcoBoost and Sync programs some of the best things to come out of an American manufacturer in years...

DID YOU SEE THAT TAURUS GO?!

 

[JCE]

DID YOU SEE THAT TAURUS GO?!

Yup, its official I started a new phrase.

 

[YSSMAN]

EcoBoost FTW... I think its officially the first time, EVER, that I've been jealous of a Ford engine lineup. If you really think about it, it isn't all that revolutionary, but the fact that they're doing it so soon is just awesome!

Too bad the Taurus won't live long enough to keep our sleeper dreams true!

 

[JCE]

EcoBoost FTW... I think its officially the first time, EVER, that I've been jealous of a Ford engine lineup. If you really think about it, it isn't all that revolutionary, but the fact that they're doing it so soon is just awesome!

I couldn't agree with you any more, it just isn't possible. I would feel the exact same way if it was GM that came with it first...my jaw would drop to the floor and straight through to the basement--that doesn't exsist in Texas.

*edit*
Oh, and peep the sig, thanks guys for giving me a sig finally. EcoBoost FTW!

 

[exigeracer]

I've seen a decade of game changing Japanese concept cars with incredibly good engineering concepts in them. Off the top of my head, 2 of them have been built in that span of time. Both of them were Toyota hybrids, one of which was merely an evolution that made the first one relevant.
GM showed the Volt last year. It is coming out in two years. Tesla showed the Roadster two years ago, and they are selling this year. That's the same amount of game changing pieces from American companies in 1/5th as much time, both of which are a half-decade more recent.

I'm talking design, not actual engineering underneath the skin.

 

[Tornado]

What cars, then?

 

[exigeracer]

Any of the Mazda Nagare cars.

I don't have access or time to show car writeups from years ago, but looking only at recent concepts it is pretty obvious what I mean.

Detroit 2006 had the Dodge Challenger, progressive in absolutely no regard, Ford Super Chief, which was doing absolutely nothing but overexaggerating everything for no real reason (7m long, 24" wheels, a 10" Ford logo etc etc), The Buick Enclave, while handsome, is hardly pushing any boundaries except having people say "Wow, that's a Buick?" (although important for the brand itself, I can admit that I look differently at Buick because of this SUV) Chrysler's Imperial, like the 300C, is does its job moderately well but isn't going to be changing the automotive landscape in any time soon, the Camaro sits well in bringing back an old car to appeal to the American buyer.

This is a perfect example of why American design hasn't gotten very far at all. They're all in debt and have to reduce to conservative themes full of sentimental rhetoric to bank on easy interest. The risk-taking that the Americans have been putting forth is pretty much zero. Ford's Reflex was the only notable US car at the show, with undoubtedly brave steps into a market that really doesn't domestically exist yet. Even though they overemphasized the Americannesses of the car, it has pretty strong Ford Europe feel to it.

Then at Detroit that year was the Nissan Urge, an open cockpit motorcycle-inspired three seater sports car. That one car, although pretty useless in today's market, in my eyes blows everything else out of the water at that show in forward thinking and going out and trying something new. And that is where progression comes from.

Now what about the ideas thrown around at Tokyo's auto show that year?

 

[V1P3R]

Yeah... I really really miss these.

All I can think of atm...

 

[neanderthal]

so a V10 is a measure of excitement?

i got a ford F350 and a dodge truck for you. available with all wheel drive and ungodly torque!!!!!

seriously need to stop and consider the topic at hand. cars. personality.


what the personality is, hasn't been defined. power alone isn't it. looks aren't it. handling isn't it. it hasn't been defined.

id say it is an ingredient that can't be summed up with one qualifying variable. its a sense of just rightness that some cars just have and others wish they had.
personality. character. charisma. class. soul. call it whatever you want to. define it first. otherwise people will throw out the tripe that i just disproved with my second sentence.

miata is a car that lacks so much of everything, but cannot be called lacking in personality. it brings a grin to your face. perhaps thats the it factor that were trying to define.
the FD certainly had it. whereas the supra and 3000GT didnt. the 300ZX seemed to nearly have it. the old BMW M3s had it. im not so sure this last one does have it. the E30 had it, the E36 less so, the E46 moreso than the current one. the current one may have more power and performace, but word on the street is that it leaves you feeling a little unfulfilled. it lacks soul. it doesnt grab you.

the M5 has also become more awesome and less fun. the uber audis. the G35. coupe or sedan. beautiful car. doesnt make one want to go the long way. S2000 nice handling and specific output, but rather limp in the pants.

what happened to the E/J/H/K hondas and thier ilk? datsun 510. the NSX. the suzuki samurai. yes i said samurai. fun little car if you realise its limitations. prelude. MR2. AE86, integra type R. first gen SC300/400 (a little soul less, but a styling out the park homerun. who expects that from the japanese when the europeans simply take two doors off thier cars to make a coupe?) sentra B13 SE-R? FD is already mentioned.

toyota is the worst culprit. i can think of only the MR2 as a car id like to own of thier recent offerings.
they have good enough engines and suspensions and cars. just not all at the same time.

perhaps its because the cars are getting higher and higher performance. and its getting harder to exploit that performance without going to a track. which would explain the cult like status of the miata and probably soon, the mini. and heavier. and bigger. and more luxurious with each successive iteratinon.

 

[V1P3R]

Uh... Those are all stock forms or close to it. The bottom line is if I want or like to drive it. I have fun in my 20 yr old wannabe Hachi Roku a lot more than I would a new car. It definitely has a lot more personality than new cars do and a lot less "crap" thrown in. I guess think about Jeremy Clarkson's speech as their trip to New Orleans was coming to a close and he said he was going to miss his Camaro. No new car is ever gonna have the experiences and feelings my car provides. I WILL miss it when I have to get a new car. Who gives a flying rats ass about power...

 

[Jim Prower]

I have fun in my rebadged Hachi-Ni. the engine has this "I think I can." attitude that transforms into a "Maaaaaybe" upon getting onto a freeway. and yet, that's endearing. It's light, tossable, and uncomplex: that's the hallmark of many cars with that "Personality" status. A bit more power, stiffer springs, better tires and a stick, and that little Nova'd really bring a grin to my face.

 

[superberkut]

I haven't driven a new C-class yet but I can tell you that you need to drive an AMG Merc. If you drive an AMG and tell me it lacks personality then you are brain dead. The CLS63 has to be one of the best things from Germany right now, it just hits all the targets dead center. I drove one, and I almost literally *ahem* got excited (same feeling as when I drove an SL55 AMG). And I didn't think that was possible...much less twice.

Sobering, as in an inauspicious car on the outside, but fun to drive. You know, the wolf in sheep's clothing. Even automotive journalists called the CLK DTM 'restrained'.

 

[///M-Spec]

I have "thrashed one" and I found it quite lacking in the fun department--especially because it was right after I drove a 350Z.

Did you do more than just run both cars through the gears? Because if that's all you did, then it's no wonder the RX didn't do anything for you. The Z has a much stronger powerband and makes much better noise.

But the RX-8 is a much better handling car and to me, better rounded. Did you throw both cars around some corners? Did you notice how the RX-8 because of it's lower CG and polar moment, turns in much better than the comparatively front heavy Z? Or how the 8 has MUCH better balance and will rotate under braking or the throttle... whereas with the Z you have a choice between understeer or more understeer? Or how the 8 manages to ride better AND grip harder than the Z?

I'm not saying the Z handles like crap or anything, because it doesn't. It's an easy, intuitive car to drive fast and fairly forgiving. But the 8 has a deep talent in the chassis, whereas the Z is simply competent.

If lack of grunt is your primary beef with the 8, you're missing out on a lot of qualities the car has to offer.

That's like getting out of a BMW and getting into a Kia. Sure the Kia is probably a good car...but come on its not a BMW.

I like your naked attempt to appeal to my sensibilities.

On a side note, the Z has an interior about on par with most Kias

Porsche ... erm everything except the Cockxster...I mean Boxster.

So what's your beef with the Boxster?


M

 

[forza2.0]

It has a very brutal exterior, the noise is probably insane, and its got a freaking V10...A VEE TEN. Oh yea, and its twin turbo. A V10 in a non-supercar...that's worth personality points right there.

Agreed its got plenty of personality. Its a big brawny bruiser that will slap ferraris silly on the autobahn.

 

[Leonidae]

I have fun in my rebadged Hachi-Ni. the engine has this "I think I can." attitude that transforms into a "Maaaaaybe" upon getting onto a freeway.

that was pure win...