Why Do We Love 'Em?

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Sigh. One individual's preferences do not define what constitutes a driver's car. Lamenting the looming death knell of affordable fun cars while tossing out nearly all of the ones that actually exist on the technicalities of an absurdly narrow conception of what counts as a "valid" fun car is outrageously and hilariously senseless.

@White & Nerdy -- Plead for manufacturers to build more cheap V8 RWD cars with no amenities all you want, but we're sick of your manhood obsession and caterwauling over imaginary crises. You're not quite far enough north for the entire world to rotate around you, even if you do wear a tin foil crown around the house while you play videogames between shifts stocking shelves and drafting pencil-sketched logos for your anti-everything campaign.
 
Your "small and weak" comment made me laugh. There are women out there who would turn all honey-badger on you for saying that, W&N
 
Your "small and weak" comment made me laugh.
I think it's known in the world of psychiatry as "projecting".
Except it leaves nowhere for the gearhead to go
You keep saying things like this.

So I'll keep saying what I said last time.

You are entirely not qualified to comment on such a thing until you open your mind and go drive some of these cars that you rag on all the time.

There are people on GTP who own some of the cars you hate. There's someone with a Chevy Sonic, for example, and someone else has a Dart. I'm pretty sure I can recall them posting how fun each car was. There are several people who own Miatas - from all walks of life - and countless others who used to. Some of those people have quite a lot of experience with cars (some fast ones, too) and still like the simple thrills of a low-powered open-top sports car.

Of course, there's a risk that some people who own the cars you dislike don't have much to base those impressions on, but then the same could be said of you and your Sunbird - it's only the most fun car you've experienced so far, in relation to the two or three other not-particularly-interesting vehicles you've driven.

I'm not sure there aren't a few more deep-seated issues here though.

One is that you've reached a stage where you're not prepared to open your mind enough to experience other things because you've criticized them for so long that if you actually enjoy them you'll be labeled a hypocrite. I can't speak for anyone else on GTP, but I'd struggle to be that spiteful - if, for example, you went and drove a Miata and actually enjoyed the experience, "I told you so" certainly wouldn't be the first thing on my mind.

The other is that you've built slightly old and crappy cars up to such a standard in your mind that you believe anything that wears away their quirks or rough edges diminishes the way they drive, or their character. There's a degree of truth to this but nowhere near the extent you say. It also underestimates just how crap some cars from days gone by were, and vastly underestimates how good some modern cars have got. And I don't mean in equipment or interior plastics (though those are much-improved too), I mean in terms of handling, response, performance, braking, gearshifts, all the stuff that people who really like cars actually like.

I also feel like you've applied double standards (in the extreme) to current-day low-end cars and the low-end car sitting on your driveway. The Sunbird was never claimed to be a performance car of any sort, nor even fun to drive, but existing cars sold on exactly the same basis somehow don't qualify.

Fun is what you make of it. On my US trip last September the first two weeks were at the wheel of a basic rental Hyundai Elantra. Had a 1.8 with about 148 hp (more than your Sunbird, IIRC), and an auto transmission. It was not, and never will be, a performance machine. But I'd be lying if I said I didn't flip it into the manual mode whenever the roads in Colorado or Utah or California or wherever got twisty, and start to throw it around. Of course it's not ideal for that - or maybe it was, being a rental - but I'm not sure a gearhead who couldn't have any fun in the same situation is really a gearhead.
 
For me, my favourite cars have just the right combination of engineering, technology and probably most importantly of all, aesthetic appeal, all things that float my boat. They are also very much "alive" in a way, once they fire up. I find it fascinating how one car can be very appealing to one person, but an abomination to another, in part due to everyone placing a different emphasis on technology/engineering/aesthetics I guess.
 
:@:homeforsummer so I'm denying my (non-existant) sexism or W&N is his or another meaning or do I need to expand on my point?
 
:@:homeforsummer so I'm denying my (non-existant) sexism or W&N is his or another meaning or do I need to expand on my point?
That was barely English so I'm not really sure what to reply, other than that it was a comment at W&N's expense, not yours.
 
And I don't plan on it either, for reasons I've already described many times. I don't care how it handles or how much effort they put into keeping it light, it's a hairdresser's car.

...

The Miata is one car, from one manufacturer, and no matter how good it is, it's still a hairdresser's car.

...

*snip* (stuff about the 3.1 Sunbird) *snip*

I keep waiting (hoping, in fact, for your sake) for a sign that you're trolling us. But I don't think that day is ever going to come. You really believe all this 🤬 you say. Incredible.

Several things:

1. I can't take anybody who claims to be a gearhead even remotely seriously if they write off the MX-5/Miata the way you do. It is, without any shadow of a doubt, one of the most important and influential enthusiast cars ever built. That shouldn't even need to be said, and it definitely doesn't need to be expounded upon.

2. GM 60-degree V6s are junk. Absolute junk. And unlike you, I'm actually speaking from personal experience here when bashing something. I owned both a Chevy Lumina with the 3.1 L, and a 4th-generation Camaro with the 3.4 L. I'll give them kudos for being dependable, low-maintenance, and very easy to work on. That's where the praise ends. They're slow-revving, thrashy-sounding, and in the words of my old man, they couldn't pull the handkerchief out of your pocket. From a performance standpoint, there are absolutely horrible engines. :yuck:

3. More generally addressing your closed-mindedness about cars: You really need to expand your horizons. My car through much of my late teens and early 20s was a 4th-generation Camaro Z28. 5.7L V8, 6-speed manual. Great fun, that car. Sounded fantastic, gobs of torque, great summer cruiser with the T-Tops off. Most importantly, it was a decently affordable way for a kid to drive an enjoyable car. So I get your love for big engines and RWD, I really do. But there are many other ways a car can be fun to drive as well, and as a self-professed "gearhead," you owe it to yourself to give them a try.

Just from my experience:

-The steering in Mazda's sports cars is absolute nirvana. I've only experienced this behind the wheel of an RX-8, but I'm sure the RX-7 and Miata also share this trait. I could wax poetically about it all day, but that's pointless. You just have to drive one. The feedback, the responsiveness, the feeling of connectedness with the road and the car is just pure bilss.

-The all-around balance of the Toyoscibaru GTFR-Z cars is a beautiful thing. Would I like to see a version come along with a little more power? Yes, 225-ish BHP would be about perfect for that chassis IMO. But focusing on that is missing the point of those cars. Again, you just need to drive one.

-For pure fun-to-drive, it's hard to beat a Mini Cooper. I'm sure that your knee-jerk hatred of FWD and supposedly "girly" cars keeps this car way off your radar, and that's a mistake. This car, for me, was a great example of the saying "It's better to drive a slow car quickly, than a fast car slowly." In a Mini, you can easily find opportunities to push the car to it's limits, and I'm not the least bit ashamed to say that a day behind the wheel of a Mini was probably the most thrilling I've had in any car. Every corner and on-ramp, even without breaking the speed limit, was suddenly the Parabolica at Monza, or Dunlop at Suzuka. Every Mini-sized hole in traffic to dart into turned me into Mansell jinking past Piquet at Silverstone. What a fantastic little car.

tl;dr - Anybody who seriously extols the virtues of a 3.1 Sunbird, but hates on the Miata, has some seriously misguided criteria for what is and isn't a good car.
 
Because I feel like cars are pretty much a necessity in everyday life, they are thus one of your possessions. I think anybody who likes cars and appreciates them, whenever they see one they like, they imagine themselves driving it and having them in their garage.
 
I
2. GM 60-degree V6s are junk. Absolute junk. And unlike you, I'm actually speaking from personal experience here when bashing something. I owned both a Chevy Lumina with the 3.1 L, and a 4th-generation Camaro with the 3.4 L. I'll give them kudos for being dependable, low-maintenance, and very easy to work on. That's where the praise ends. They're slow-revving, thrashy-sounding, and in the words of my old man, they couldn't pull the handkerchief out of your pocket. From a performance standpoint, there are absolutely horrible engines. :yuck:

Oh god this. I wouldn't even say they are easy to work on. The ones I've touched were a nightmare.
 
For me, it's the sound ... that beautiful noise of race cars lapping a course can't be matched.
Not even by a V8 F-type through a tunnel? My god it is GLORIOUS... Even sans the tunnel.

My ears still a-ringin' and my mouth still a-grinnin' from the last time the F-type was a-Revvin'
 
I was speaking in general ... many cars sound wonderful. But ... 787B down Mulsanne? No, a street car in a tunnel doesn't come close. =)
 
Oh god this. I wouldn't even say they are easy to work on. The ones I've touched were a nightmare.

"Very" easy may have been a stretch, but I still found it to be fairly hassle-free. Mostly this was due to the amount of free space in my engine bay. Working on my old V6 Camaro was much easier than my Z28, simply because of the extra space around the smaller engine. It's even worse with my current car. A 6-cylinder stuffed into a Golf? :lol:

Anywho, my first post was probably borderline OT, this one certainly is. So...

What makes me fall in love with a car? It's a vague term, I know, but I'd have to say it comes down to how connected I feel to the car. Steering that responds to your every input, a quick-revving engine with immediate throttle response, good tactile feedback from the wheel, linear and predictable clutch engagement... When a car manages to bring all the little details like this together, and starts to feel like an extension of your brain, it's a beautiful thing.
 
"Very" easy may have been a stretch, but I still found it to be fairly hassle-free. Mostly this was due to the amount of free space in my engine bay. Working on my old V6 Camaro was much easier than my Z28, simply because of the extra space around the smaller engine.

Tell me about it :lol:

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I love cars for many reasons, but ultimately it boils down to "freedom". Namely, having the ability to do things and go places that I never would be able to otherwise. I have a similar love for aviation.
 
My L67 Grand Prix was like that. I had to unbolt the 2 top engine mounts and rock the engine forward to get at the back 3 spark plugs.

The VW, being an H4, isn't the simplest for plug changes. I actually cut access panels in the rear wheel wells to facilitate plug changes.

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To be fair, in a Beetle you could drop the engine, change the plugs and replace the engine again quicker than simply changing the plugs in some vehicles...
 
Honestly, I'm often doubtful as to whether I can truly say I like cars. I find them very interesting, but most of my real life experience with them is one of frustration.
 
Why do we love cars? Cultural norms tell us, as guys, should like them.
 
I guess I like the sensation of a machine pushing me to get to a destination, the sounds they can make (I even oddly enough like the sound of the Zetec in my Focus. Yes, I'm that weird.), the shapes. I just see personalities when I look at one. There's just a lot of things I like about a car.
 

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