Why does PD think it is our fault for their screwups?

[Tyger]

There are specific differences between what EULAs can specify for console disc releases and what EULAs can specify for PC/DD releases. One of them is that you do own the content on the disc for the former, and you may not for the latter.


Development time is completely irrelevant to the idea, and lack of patience isn't the problem for reasons Devedander outlined above (though those aren't the only ones; or, I would argue, even the major ones).


You completely ignored what my post actually said. I never said anything about how there was a huge hype machine for the game. What I said was the game did not meet specific expectations that were set by the hype that PD/Sony did put out, and some of those expectations were intentionally not met rather than being down to an inability to meet them.

We own the disc, not the content. Surely I don't need to go into detail explaining that? EULAs are more pertinent to downloadable content which is then stored remotely, to reinforce the fact that we don't, as end users, OWN the code. Same applies to console games. If you think we somehow own the code because it is a console, not PC game, I really suggest you research a little more.

I simply mentioned the development time because it is clearly a game that has had a lot of work, which we shouldn't expect to complete/fully explore within 3 months. If we could, then that would be damn good cause to complain.

And yes you pretty much repeated yourself on the last point, and my response was in order. Again please let me know how Sony/PD directly put out hype and raised expectation, as I saw little sign of this? Again, I think such hype is raised by us, as fans. For such a huge title I am often surprised how little hype and advertising surrounds the GT series. It speaks for itself far more than many other big titles.

 

[pzk]

We own the disc, not the content. Surely I don't need to go into detail explaining that? EULAs are more pertinent to downloadable content which is then stored remotely, to reinforce the fact that we don't, as end users, OWN the code. Same applies to console games. If you think we somehow own the code because it is a console, not PC game, I really suggest you research a little more.

And because most of you guys don't read agreements, I'll make it easier for you:

This is what you have all agreed to when you first booted the game, and every time you play it.

 

[Tyger]

Thank you, was considering posting a pic myself.

Special emphasis goes to the line starting "You have no proprietary rights..."

 

[Tornado]

We own the disc, not the content. Surely I don't need to go into detail explaining that? EULAs are more pertinent to downloadable content which is then stored remotely, to reinforce the fact that we don't, as end users, OWN the code. Same applies to console games. If you think we somehow own the code because it is a console, not PC game, I really suggest you research a little more.

I'm pretty sure several years of a game development degree have given me enough research, thank you. I also know that EULAs are completely meaningless when they go against previously established laws, and about half of the things in the above image do exactly that.

I simply mentioned the development time because it is clearly a game that has had a lot of work, which we shouldn't expect to complete/fully explore within 3 months. If we could, then that would be damn good cause to complain.

Your reasoning for mentioning it doesn't particularly matter, because it is still irrelevant.

And yes you pretty much repeated yourself on the last point, and my response was in order. Again please let me know how Sony/PD directly put out hype and raised expectation, as I saw little sign of this? Again, I think such hype is raised by us, as fans. For such a huge title I am often surprised how little hype and advertising surrounds the GT series. It speaks for itself far more than many other big titles.

You know, if you are so full of yourself that you won't even attempt to read other people's posts because they don't support your twisted points, I truly pity you.
I will put it in big letters for you, in case it is merely a case of not being able to read very well:

I never said anything about how there was a huge hype machine for the game.

Do you get it yet?

 

[nyleveia]

i always got the feeling putting a value limit on trades was to stop the people on ebay/gumtree/craigslist/etc selling rare virtual cars for real-world cash.

 

[Tyger]

I'm pretty sure several years of a game development degree have given me enough research, thank you. I also know that EULAs are completely meaningless when they go against previously established laws, and about half of the things in the above image do exactly that.

OK well you are right and Sony are wrong. Let's see how that one pans out.

Your reasoning for mentioning it doesn't particularly matter, because it is still irrelevant.

OK you are right, and we should all be able to unlock all available content in three months, thus rendering a game that took 6 years to create pretty much finished, and redundant. Two words: Replay Value

You know, if you are so full of yourself that you won't even attempt to read other people's posts because they don't support your twisted points, I truly pity you.
I will put it in big letters for you, in case it is merely a case of not being able to read very well:

I never said anything about how there was a huge hype machine for the game.

Do you get it yet?

OK firstly you got personal, which sadly just proves you are unable to argue your points without resorting to being a little infantile. I'm not "full of myself", i'm just tired of people who whine about very small, hard to substantiate points and pretty much ruin the gig for everyone else. That's not "twisted" (seriously, WTF?)

Secondly, you did and still do refer to hype Sony/PD "put out" and haven't delivered on or lived up to, and I am questioning that. Examples please? I just don't remember much hype leading up to the release of the game. 1% comments by the creator and 99% hype, furore and speculation by the fans are inevitable, but we created that hype, not Sony/PD. And as a fan of the GT series I include myself in that.

EDIT: "Shouting" in bold print doesn't help either

 

[Tenacious D]

Furthermore you can "unlock" all the content if you just exercise a little patience. Nobody is preventing you from doing that. Is it really that big an issue that a few cars out of over 1000 are a little more special and require a little more persistence and patience to be able to buy them?

It isn't a matter of a little patience.

You go into a JRPG expecting linearity, and expecting to have to grind. Only the truly exceptional entries in the genre manage to avoid those pitfalls. Racing games are not JRPGs, and a 5th game in a 13 year old racing series specifically known for its freedom and open-ended gameplay certainly shouldn't be expected to play like one. GT5 isn't a JRPG, regardless of if PD thought it would be a good idea to set it up like one.

You must either have a very short term memory, or never wanted very many cars in any Gran Turismo, Tor.

In GT4, the pinnacle of the Gran Turismo series to many and a game with tons to do and accomplish, I still did scads of grinding, and still didn't get all the cars I wanted. "Scads" are a lot, by the way.

Yes, GT5 is perplexing in many ways, not the least is the limited economy and frankly bizarre XP system. And gee, a paint shop with no paint?? Who saw that one coming! But Kaz put too many eggs in the online basket, and then left A- and B-Spec short sheeted when the PSN couldn't handle his dream online structure. Heck, the PSN couldn't even handle GT5 at all for the first few days because of all the traffic just using the game generated. SONY has been pretty quiet after that initial news they were working to double the capacity of the PSN just to handle GT5, but I have a feeling it's going to be a number of months, at least, of serious server upgrading before we see anything resembling Kaz's marvelous online system. In the meantime, we're stuck with the tiny offline game. I'm not a big fan of what they did as a stop gap, but otherwise, we would blow through the whole game in two months.

Honestly, what we should be lobbying for are a few additional A-Spec and possibly B-Spec events a month, give or take. I have a feeling that Kaz's online playground will require another year's work or more.

Are we going to start seeing lawsuits (in the US) soon where people start suing games developers because they don't have the patience to unlock every feature without a cheat or workaround?

Hey, this is the country where some idiot sued McDonalds when they spilled their coffee on themselves. AND WON! Whatta nation of whiners we have...

But I'm in complete agreement with you, Tyger. This planet seems to have lost all capacity for patience, and memory of more than a few days vanishes with the sunset.

 

[Tornado]

OK well you are right and Sony are wrong. Let's see how that one pans out.

You really don't know how EULAs work, do you? The provisions contained in them are only (only) enforceable if they don't contradict already-established laws. That includes case law. In fact, most EULAs even state as much directly. And while you certainly can try to overturn those laws through civil lawsuits; the process is long, very expensive and in no way guaranteed to not make things worse for you.

But, you know, keep acting clever.

OK you are right, and we should all be able to unlock all available content in three months, thus rendering a game that took 6 years to create pretty much finished, and redundant. Two words: Replay Value

You know, repeatedly banging on about a point that is so obviously irrelevant and acting like it is ironic that people keep ignoring it also isn't particularly clever. But I'll bite anyways:
Perhaps if GT5 wasn't so damn short, there wouldn't be a problem with people expecting to be able to do the events whenever they wanted to (you know, like every other game in the series).

OK firstly you got personal, which sadly just proves you are unable to argue your points without resorting to being a little infantile.

Oh, I'm so sad. You sure pegged me.

I'm not "full of myself", i'm just tired of people who whine about very small, hard to substantiate points and pretty much ruin the gig for everyone else. That's not "twisted" (seriously, WTF?)

And I'm tired of people defending aspects of the game by dodging points and making up interpretations of other's statements.

Secondly, you did and still do refer to hype Sony/PD "put out" and haven't delivered on or lived up to, and I am questioning that. Examples please? I just don't remember much hype leading up to the release of the game.

How are those 18 megapixel photomode shots? What about the GT5 save transfer? The Siena go kart track? Mechanical damage in A-Spec mode? NASCAR specific rules? Leaderboards? Matchmaking? Standard cars in Photo Travel? This is off the top of my head without even bothering to look at the News archives on GTP or on the GT website, and about half of them are things that PD obviously had the capability to do very easily and intentionally didn't do them.
This is also ignoring the very easy-to-find statements made by Kaz regarding how the game was finished months and months before it shipped and similar nonsense; and it is also ignoring things that PD have only just recently patched into the game several months after release.

I also question your memory, because between E3 2010 and the game's release, there was nothing but constant hype coming from PD about the game, both from PD directly and from dozens of gaming website and magazine articles/interviews.

1% comments by the creator and 99% hype

Except with "celebrity" developers, their comments absolutely constitute hype. And PD as an entity were releasing stuff about the game anyways.

EDIT: "Shouting" in bold print doesn't help either

Neither does acting like a smartass when you don't know what you are talking about. And besides, I finally got you to actually read it, so it seems like it was worth the effort.

You must either have a very short term memory, or never wanted very many cars in any Gran Turismo, Tor.

In GT4, the pinnacle of the Gran Turismo series to many and a game with tons to do and accomplish, I still did scads of grinding, and still didn't get all the cars I wanted. "Scads" are a lot, by the way.

Yeah, no. Not even remotely the same thing. For starters, the situation itself is completely different, because GT4 had scads of events to do and you could do the overwhelming majority of them whenever you wanted. GT4 was also far, far friendlier in terms of handing out credits, and 99% of the cars cost less (and more realistic) money. GT4 also had B-Spec mode integrated, so you didn't even have to grind GT Mode at all to rake in the dough. Most importantly, GT4 (and GT3, and GT2, and GT1) isn't particularly linear in any notable way. You have to do certain things first, and you have to do certain things last, but otherwise you can do whatever you want, however you want, whenever you want to do it. Money is the only limiting factor.
They are an order of magnitude different in regards to player-friendliness.

 

[JediRage]

Well we know the sheeple who will buy GT6 day 1 after begging Yamauchi for six years to release it.

 

[TRC GeorgiaDawg]

I see the usual fanboy trolls complaining about complaining have showed up.

Enough with the rarity of cars bit please. They're not cars. They are LINES OF CODE. Nothing rare or valuable at all about these virtual "cars".

It's just arrogance on the part of the developer to think that people want to play for months on end just to afford the stupid high prices they set on cars. Turn 10 and Forza are exactly the same. In fact, you could cheat a million different ways on Forza and never have anything done to you. Cheat yourself a bunch of #1 times on the scoreboards, no problem. But cheat yourself a few credits so you could afford some of the 20 million credit cars and you better duck, the banhammer was swinging your way.

 

[911_RS]

I've yet to hear a convincing argument for why a family of 5, 3 of whom play GT5 fervently, can no longer trade cars with the outside world daily because they share the same ISP. I can understand protecting the high value market, but trading low value cars must be returned to an account driven program IMO.....

 

[StingrayX]

I don't know what your talking about "gaming25"

They are improving their game, not making it worse...go play Forza if your going to piss and wine, get a grip dude.

 

[GrimSinn]

People were selling cars on eBay.

Plus online rooms (server space) are being dedicated to exploit trading and cr/xp glitching. Then people complain about poor online experience....

Nufffffffffff Said!

Give PD a chance to figure out a way to do it without people profiting off exploiting PDs customers... If it can be done.


Some people act like PD forgot about GT5 and are not providing updates, WAKE UP!

Plus why cry about the grind, if you want cash just grind the hour and a half per million and stop whining, a mil for a hour and a half ain't too bad...

The real question is "why are so many cry babies playing GT5?"

 

[Gran_Turismo]

This sums up GT5 perfectly for me. I recognize a development failure when I see one.

Maybe PD and Sony should have decided to not show GT 5 years ago in the first place, so that maybe this unfinished and surprisingly rushed product would not has these issues.

Its too late to fix the disasterous birth of the game, but its not too late for GT6 and if you ask me, they should keep their mouths shut about it and prepare it for PS4 launch and DO IT PROPERLY!

For a GT game. All its technical problems compared to the past games is just unbelievable!

 

[Tenacious D]

Its too late to fix the disasterous birth of the game

I don't see how you can think that. More than 2000 people show up at GT Planet a day, and unless I'm missing something, most aren't complaining. They're discussing tunes, how to get XP so they can get to the Nurburgring 24 Hr in less than three months, chatting about Kaz's latest tweets, making wishes for the next updates, yadda yadda. I know it must stun you "GT5 is broken" guys silly, but the majority of us don't think so.

 

[SKOT_FREE]

Take responsibility and own it noobs! People EXPLOITED a flaw in GT5 and yes it's all of our faults! Seriously people are straight cheating then have the nerve to blame PD for their poor decisions and the repercussions of that. Just like in Red Dead Redemption when people hacked game saves and then R* banned them and people were mad then too. Oh well!

 

[Gran_Turismo]

I don't see how you can think that. More than 2000 people show up at GT Planet a day, and unless I'm missing something, most aren't complaining. They're discussing tunes, how to get XP so they can get to the Nurburgring 24 Hr in less than three months, chatting about Kaz's latest tweets, making wishes for the next updates, yadda yadda. I know it must stun you "GT5 is broken" guys silly, but the majority of us don't think so.

I was talking about the launch of GT5. It was a disaster with 1.00. Everyone who can actually compare it as a game to the past ones were expecting something MUCH better than what we got.

 

[TRC GeorgiaDawg]

I know it must stun you "GT5 is broken" guys silly, but the majority of us don't think so.

Says the guy with complaints in his sig.

I'd counter that many who think GT5 is broken have either given up and moved on or have been chased away by the relentless fanboy trolls of this site. Regardless, one side or the other claiming to be the "majority" is pretty arrogant.👎

 

[RobGT81]

Wish PD would just ban cheaters and dupers, save us all a load of grief and they could make the game better even quicker instead of trying to stop people cheating.