why is Group 2 japanese only

  • Thread starter Thread starter Kano Manel
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Kano Manel

Kano Manel

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Hi, guys, I'm wondering why Gr.2 has only 3 cars an the 3 of them are japanese. Does anyone know the reason for this? Is it a BoP thing? is it that these cars are PRO and Gr.3 are AM? The new Ford GT (which is not even in the game) would totally fit in this category, as it would the R8 competing in Blancpain Super Gt and the Ferrari 488 (and 458 before it).

Any insight on this?
 
Group 2 is exclusively for GT500 cars used in SuperGT from Japan. These cars are pretty much silhouette prototypes and are at par (if not slighrly faster) than LMP2s. The Ford GT and other GT3/E cars you mentioned would fit Gr. 3 more, but as it currently stamds right now the GTE cars have a huge advantage in cornering speed, offset only by heavy BoP (and even it's not enough for the Supra)

The GT3 cars you see in SuperGT race in GT300, a lower class from GT500

If you give DTM cars a little power BoP boost they can compete in the same field though
 
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ed24
I don't know if GTE would fit in this group but DTM is reasonably similar to Super GT and would be a fantastic addition I think. Perhaps some generic cars could be added too?
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I just checked and DTM cars are in the same weight but about 400hp, that is a big gap with the 600 of the 3 japanese.

The Ford LMGTE Pro has 550 and similar weight, it would fit. The strange thing is that the Ferrari 458 in gr. 3 looks like the GT3 and GTE Pro car.

Why a Japanese category only? isn't it a bit weird?
 
Kano Manel
Hi, guys, I'm wondering why Gr.2 has only 3 cars an the 3 of them are japanese. Does anyone know the reason for this?
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Yes. PD added three Super GT cars in an update, and they didn't fit into any other class so they went into a new class called Gr.2.

I'm sure that other cars may come in the future that would also need to go in this new class.
 
Alpha Cipher
Group 2 is exclusively for GT500 cars used in SuperGT from Japan. These cars are pretty much silhouette prototypes and are at par (if not slighrly faster) than LMP2s.

The GT3 cars you see in SuperGT race in GT300, a lower class from GT500
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You are absolutely right, sir. Now it makes sense. Is basically the GT500 of the Super Gt japanese championship

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_GT#GT500

Now I get it, thanks!
 
Kano Manel
I just checked and DTM cars are in the same weight but about 400hp, that is a big gap with the 600 of the 3 japanese.

The Ford LMGTE Pro has 550 and similar weight, it would fit. The strange thing is that the Ferrari 458 in gr. 3 looks like the GT3 and GTE Pro car.

Why a Japanese category only? isn't it a bit weird?
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DTM and Super Gt cars are now built to similar specifications so we could see them in GR2.
 
Kano Manel
I just checked and DTM cars are in the same weight but about 400hp, that is a big gap with the 600 of the 3 japanese.

The Ford LMGTE Pro has 550 and similar weight, it would fit. The strange thing is that the Ferrari 458 in gr. 3 looks like the GT3 and GTE Pro car.

Why a Japanese category only? isn't it a bit weird?
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The Porsche RSR GTE is in Gr3 in GTS why would the Ford GT be in Gr2?
Plus you’re not taking in count the downforce that Super GT cars have, it’s much higher than GT3 cars so it would be pretty much impossible to balance them out. (Like Group C and LMP1 in Gr1).
 
I love this forum because it makes me research about cars (and this puts a smile in my face)

First I thought: so, basically these are purpose built race cars that look like the street ones with bonkers amounts of power and grip... basically GT1

And then I read this:

In the earlier years of the GT500 category, a number of foreign manufacturers entered cars in the series, with varying success. The McLaren F1 GTR is, to date, the only foreign car to win the GT500 championship, when it did so in dominant fashion in 1996. The Porsche 911 GT2 and Ferrari F40 also won races in the early years of GT500. The last foreign-built car to enter the series was the Aston Martin DBR9, which fared poorly in its brief run in 2009 - illustrating the overwhelming advantage in raw pace that the GT500 class cars had over the FIA GT1 category cars that dominated the landscape in Europe.

Thereby, I understand what Alpha Cipher said about the GT500 being similar to LMP2 (which is a lot to say, but seems to me it makes sense)
 
Crazy Taylor
DTM and Super Gt cars are now built to similar specifications so we could see them in GR2.
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They're not yet. DTM is still using the NA V8's with much less power, and the recent aero changes (which also are not inline with SGT) appear to have slowed the cars down further. 2019 will be the telling season, IF the exhibition races happen then there's a chance of a Class One world championship maybe 2020-2021.. then give PD year to model the cars...
 
It would be absolutely fantastic if they included the current DTM cars... granted they are all 4 litre quad cam V8s in an rwd chassis which would be a great competitive comparison to the 2.0 turbo fours of the Japanese.

Imagine a series with the Audi S5, Merc C AMG coupe and the BMW m4 against what we already have in GT500. You may need to BOP them a bit as the turbo fours seem to have more power than the n/a V8s...

Its so good an idea its almost seems a nil chance PD will implement it.

You can imagine a DTM series in GT Leagues and then a DTM vs. Super GT series. Amazing synergies.
 
iFerrari
The Porsche RSR GTE is in Gr3 in GTS why would the Ford GT be in Gr2?
Plus you’re not taking in count the downforce that Super GT cars have, it’s much higher than GT3 cars so it would be pretty much impossible to balance them out. (Like Group C and LMP1 in Gr1).
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The Porsche RSR GTE is an AM car. The Ford GT is a Pro car. In top of that, I just thought that it was too big to be in Gr.3, the proportions remind me to the size of the Raybrig NSX (I know... it's a ridiculous argument, but whenever I watch a Ford GT my brain becomes a 12 years old's one :D)
 
Kano Manel
The Porsche RSR GTE is an AM car. The Ford GT is a Pro car. In top of that, I just thought that it was too big to be in Gr.3, the proportions remind me to the size of the Raybrig NSX (I know... it's a ridiculous argument, but whenever I watch a Ford GT my brain becomes a 12 years old's one :D)
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I don’t think you really know how AM and Pro class works in WEC, they both race the same cars with same specs only difference being in the drivers line-up. In GTEPro only gold or factory drivers can race, in AM there has to be at least one bronze driver and 1 bronze/silver driver. Porsche sells the RSR to privateers that’s why you see it in AM too.
 
TonyJZX
Imagine a series with the Audi S5, Merc C AMG coupe and the BMW m4 against what we already have in GT500. You may need to BOP them a bit as the turbo fours seem to have more power than the n/a V8s...
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You are going to get roasted by the japanese section of the forum for saying this, you know that? :DApparently (I don't want to talk like I knew all this already, I'm just learning here answer after answer) GT500 class is the fastest form of production-based sports car racing today. They have 200 hp more than DTM and the aerodinamics are almost like the ones in LMP2, as someone already commented.
 
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Crazy Taylor
DTM and Super Gt cars are now built to similar specifications so we could see them in GR2.
Click to expand...

They are both just silhouette cars yes, but as far as their performance goes, they are not similar, not even close and I really really hope PD won't merge them together (if DTM cars ever come) because they would have to nerf them really bad.
 
iFerrari
I don’t think you really know how AM and Pro class works in WEC, they both race the same cars with same specs only difference being in the drivers line-up. In GTEPro only gold or factory drivers can race, in AM there has to be at least one bronze driver and 1 bronze/silver driver. Porsche sells the RSR to privateers that’s why you see it in AM too.
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You are right. That is lack of car culture right here (learning post after post), I thought they were different in power output but they are basically the same, what changes is the drivers. The difference in lap records between the CR7 (AM) and Aston Martin (PRO) is only 2 seconds
 
Lord Protector
They are both just silhouette cars yes, but as far as their performance goes, they are not similar, not even close and I really really hope PD won't merge them together (if DTM cars ever come) because they would have to nerf them really bad.
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I would rather they merged cars into groups. I like to see different race car groups come together and race (like LMP ,VGT and Group C cars do. I don't really care for single class racing (even though a lot of folk are up or that).
 
[QUOTE="Crazy Taylor, post: 12352514, member: 294501"I don't really care for single class racing (even though a lot of folk are up or that).[/QUOTE]

Probably because there are a lot of fans of different series, I imagine. I'd love a Blancpain series in this game, probably a japanese fan would love the GT500 (good for them because they have it ;)
 
MatskiMonk
They're not yet. DTM is still using the NA V8's with much less power, and the recent aero changes (which also are not inline with SGT) appear to have slowed the cars down further. 2019 will be the telling season, IF the exhibition races happen then there's a chance of a Class One world championship maybe 2020-2021.. then give PD year to model the cars...
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I wasn't aware of this :dunce:
I thought DTM and SGT are already under Class 1 specs save for the engine :O
 
Kano Manel
Probably because there are a lot of fans of different series, I imagine. I'd love a Blancpain series in this game, probably a japanese fan would love the GT500 (good for them because they have it ;)
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We have the Blancpain series just as much as we have the GT500 Super GT series.
 
Kano Manel
They have 200 hp more than DTM and the aerodinamics are almost like the ones in LMP2, as someone already commented.
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Kano Manel
I just checked and DTM cars are in the same weight but about 400hp, that is a big gap with the 600 of the 3 japanese.
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That’s not entirely accurate. DTM engines are slightly above 500hp, so there’s a bit of power, a bit of aero and also tyres which DTM is lacking. But they are reasonably close. The engines also are restricted, so it’s certainly not peak power they could use, if they wanted to.

They also will adopt the engine regulation SuperGT uses, so this will bring them very close. If they really agree on Class One regulation, it should just be nuances.
 
Considering the fact that they have added 3 classic LMP cars that shouldn't really be in the same class of modern LMP cars, I think it's safe to guess that they could fit in some DTM cars along with the GT500 cars in Gr. 2.

Only problem is knowing when that will happen.
 
snowgt
~DTM ~ engines also are restricted, so it’s certainly not peak power they could use, if they wanted to.
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Agreed, with 4.4 liters to work with, 650hp n/a out of a DOHC should be attainable... well, depending on engine life span regulations.
I base this on a 358cu.in. NASCAR engine producing 850hp running heavy valve train... which is usually the weak link... DOHC should provide some longevity and rpm in that department... of course to turn those rpms, the little 4.4 would likely require a total redesign...
Long winded way of saying the 4.4 n/a could be competitive...
 
cleanLX
Agreed, with 4.4 liters to work with, 650hp n/a out of a DOHC should be attainable... well, depending on engine life span regulations.
I base this on a 358cu.in. NASCAR engine producing 850hp running heavy valve train... which is usually the weak link... DOHC should provide some longevity and rpm in that department... of course to turn those rpms, the little 4.4 would likely require a total redesign...
Long winded way of saying the 4.4 n/a could be competitive...
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It's a 4000cc engine, not 4.4.
 
snowgt
That’s not entirely accurate. DTM engines are slightly above 500hp, so there’s a bit of power, a bit of aero and also tyres which DTM is lacking. But they are reasonably close. The engines also are restricted, so it’s certainly not peak power they could use, if they wanted to.

They also will adopt the engine regulation SuperGT uses, so this will bring them very close. If they really agree on Class One regulation, it should just be nuances.
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You are right, they are at 500 hp. Sorry, I used the wrong source, I read in an article they were around the 400 hp, but it was from 2011. I'm going to start using Harvard Referencing to double check what I write.

Can you guys explain a bit about the Class One regulation? (I love this forum, you guys know a lot! :gtpflag:)
 
So these cars on the Super GT Instagram page are the equivalent of our Gr.3 cars?

92AF0020-1CE3-4F72-92CF-371DEFF85673.png BE0CE576-0321-4EA4-ADE7-30233976CB2C.png 1B853ACB-D6A7-4383-84E4-D46C3F38261D.png
 

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