Why is the rest of the world faster than the USA?

[Tyger]

Yeah come on guys let's not go there, this could get like Youtube!

The motorsports thing is bound to crop up though, America has vast, long, relatively straight highways criss-crossing the nation whilst in a lot of other countries (including my own) we have all kinds of roads of different widths, surfaces etc. Not always a good thing (some of our roads are really poor), but it is in part why our most popular cars in here and Europe are smaller and lighter, even more so Japan and Asia (OK I am generalising but you see what I mean)

This translates into motor sports I think, which is perhaps why the US generally favours NASCAR, Indy car racing etc. on ovals and relatively less complex tracks compared to say F1. But then it is more about speed and drafting (as Mr Gordon tells us) which perhaps haven't come in to driving games so much, historically

Rally is another level again, and you see patterns there too. Finnish drivers excel due to the nature of their roads, strict license tests and really the fact that driving and different forms of rallying are just in their blood. There was a top gear feature about this I think.

In Australia you get a kind of mix of the V8 muscle cars but more complex circuits such as Bathurst, perhaps a head-on clash of the vastness of the country and her penchant for those big Commodores and Falcons, and the stronger European influence and enthusiasm for F1 etc.

OK just conjecture, but food for thought I hope!

 

[RustyNut]

Yeah come on guys let's not go there, this could get like Youtube!

The motorsports thing is boind to crop up though, ultimately you American guys have vast, long, relatively straight highways criss-crossing your nation whilst in a lot of other countries (including my own) we have all kinds of roads of different widths, surfaces etc etc. Not that that's a good thing, but it is in part why our most popular cars are smaller and lighter, even more so Japan etc (OK I am generalising but you see what I mean)

This translates into motor sports I think, which is perhaps why the US generally favours NASCAR, Indy car racing etc. on ovals and relatively less complex tracks compared to say F1. But then it is more about speed and tuning, drafting etc. (as Mr Gordon tells us) which perhaps haven't come in to driving games so much.

Rally is another level again, and you see patterns there too. Finnish drivers excel due to the nature of their roads, strict license tests and really the fact that driving and different forms of rallying are just very big there.

In Australia you get a kind of mix of the V8 muscle cars but more complex circuits such as Bathurst, perhaps a head-on clash of the vastness of the country and her penchant for those big Commodores and Falcons, and the stronger European influence and enthusiasm for F1 etc.

OK just conjecture, but food for thought I hope!

I think you hit the nail on the head. Bravo!

Driving style/ability is largely geographically influenced.

 

[skywolf23]

What type of lower level racing does the US have? Around here it's quarter mile ovals or a drag strip.

A talent is nothing if it is not tuned to something particular from an early age. For example Lewis Hamilton was groomed to be a F1 driver since he was 12 or something?

How many US kids get an opportunity to be groomed to be a F1 driver? Scott Speed, an average at best American talent, when groomed to race in F1 did so and did OK. The path to being a top international driver in the US is very tough compared to some areas mainly because the feeder systems over here aren't that great or are broken. Europe has how many Formula ???? openwheel series again to groom openwheel drivers?

Also racing tradition is deep in places like Brazil or Germany where all the young kids want to be the next Senna or Schumacher. There is no international racing history for American kids to want to follow. It's NASCAR or nothing basically. Young openwheel aces like A.J. ALlmendinger are giving up opnewheel careers to race NASCAR because how bad the feeder sereies are in the US. If he was in europe he would be working his way up the many openwheel divisions enroute to F1

Top NASCAR talents like Jimmie Johnson or Jeff Gordon could have gone the openwheel route and perhaps made it to F1. But because the IRL is not a great training ground for F1 nothing ever happens. Not to mention once racing in F1 you have to embrace the European lifestyle, something Michael Andretti refused to do which eventually doomed him. Can you imagine a F1 driver moving to NASCAR country and trying to embrace the NASCAR lifestyle? Theres more to it then simply how heavy your right foot is. Juan Montoya is barely surviving in NASCAR because he's use to, a nd more importantly likes the American lifestyle.

Some good points, but i do not recall scott speed lasting long in formula 1 at all nor doing much of anything while he was there.

I mean i grew up in a small town, watched the good old days of cart when emmerson fittapladi (sp?) raced, and formula 1 during the days of senna and prost, there was no place to go where i lived to even try to get into racing like that, only place i found was video games back on the commodore 128 and and etc to even get decent formula 1 racing.

 

[BoneSawTX]

Most the people i know that race are into drag racing. Cheap, there are 4 tracks within 2 hours of me and most american cars seem to be suited for straight line racing out of the box. the few guys i do know that road race are in vettes but go to the drag strip a bunch also and cars you would think belong on a road course are at the drag strips.

 

[Skiddy]

well, one reason is that american cars were built to be fast on a straight line. European cities are much closer to each other, there are far less open roads than in the States. That's why european cars are smaller, lighter and can be driven in a different way than american cruisers. Rally was invented in Europe (i think), drag races in USA (again, don't know for sure). In the States it's all about raw power (NASCAR, drag races, ovals..), and in Europe it's more about finesse (Rally, F1, ETCC, BTCC...).

 

[filphil89]

After perusing the leaderboards for the time trials in the new seasonal events section, I noticed that we (USA) were some way back? I'm not very good myself but I wonder if they have some sort of advantage?

More driving with smaller, quicker cars and lots of manual shifting maybe?

Last time I checked I was 1.2 second away from the ROME time trial leader. I think I could gain a few by hitting the wall in the last corner exit but I refuse to do that until I'm more consistent on the corners before that. Leading up to the point where ROME travels uphill I'm usually .5xx seconds away from the leaders. I just can't get that one section right so I can't get America a better time. =(

To be honest the lack of US representation probably has to do with the USA concentrating on GTacademy and not the international time trials. Give it a few weeks for the rankings to be more diverse.

I have no interest in the prizes for GTacademy so I don't think I'll be participating. Once it starts to be competitive like that it becomes more about the prize and not about feeding the fun side which gets frustrating.

 

[otago]

Take a look at Dallas.

Texas is the most fattest state in US. But Arkansas looks OK to me.

Talking about driving, once my car broke 50 miles from Little Rock and some AAA guy loaded it on his huge tow track. He was driving back 80 mph on quite wavy road and sometimes was steering by his knees cause he put some notes in his notebook.

That's what I call driving!

 

[No46_TheDoctor]

Maybe all the americans are busy with the Academy.

 

[BoneSawTX]

i think most of us are busy at work, east coast is getting off and central time zone will be over the next hour. expect more to show up on the boards in the next 4-5 hours, but i would think a good chunk will be trying out the GT Academy.

 

[ubergill]

I think American cars are (generally) build for comfort rather than sport, roads are (generally) straight, with a low speed limit (I believe 55mph) and corners are (generally) 90 degrees. In short - Americans don't need to push the envelope on the road.

American motorsport - like most American sports don't tend to travel well so, I think, America's whole driving culture is a bubble, somewhat removed from the wider world.

 

[Brend]

Hmm, I'm Scottish and as you Americans know there is a certain Indy driver; Dario Franchette-So, I don't buy the entire concept of Geographical limitation. Although certain aspects are agreeable

 

[Big Ron]

After perusing the leaderboards for the time trials in the new seasonal events section, I noticed that we (USA) were some way back? I'm not very good myself but I wonder if they have some sort of advantage?

More driving with smaller, quicker cars and lots of manual shifting maybe?

Americans can not be fast because they have the wrong cars

Try out an european sports car and you will get much more experience in driving fast

With your soft-sprung rear skid, you will probably never get forward (more a joke)

 

[R34EVO9]

Because its America and Europe where talking about. Do you see the cars that come out of Europe compared to cars America makes? There just better deal with it.

 

[slackboy72]

I think you need to look at the particular case of Marcus Ambrose.
An okay racer.
Won the Australian V8 Supercar Championship mostly thanks to a superior car and parity regulations that favoured his Ford Falcon.
Went to NASCAR - crap on ovals yet right up the pointy end of the field in road races.
Why?
He learnt to race on road courses not ovals while his american rivals learnt to race on ovals. They're two different skills.
Why this is showing up in GT5 though is beyond me. Maybe you are too fat like someone said before. Too much Taco beell and Wendy's.

 

[otago]

Try out an european sports car and you will get much more experience in driving fast

I spent this summer in Newport Beach and roads there a literally swarmed with BMW 335, Porsches, Maserati, Bently and so on. You just drive 10 minutes and see passing you MBZ SLS and Lamborghini dealership.

The funny part is that BMW prices in US are 1.5 times lower than in Germany.

 

[RustyNut]

Americans can not be fast because they have the wrong cars

Try out an european sports car and you will get much more experience in driving fast

With your soft-sprung rear skid, you will probably never get forward (more a joke)

I know you're kidding but Americans are generally not interested in driving fast or even skillfully for that matter. Americans are generally interested in getting from place to place with the least amount of physical or mental effort, Americans tend to like comfort over performance.

I lump most Americans into a category I created called non-drivers. Non-drivers are people who consider driving to be a low level mental activity, they drive off of reaction instead of planning, they just shut their brain off, mash the gas and steer to wherever they need to be.

 

[BoneSawTX]

I know you're kidding but Americans are generally not interested in driving fast or even skillfully for that matter. Americans are generally interested in getting from place to place with the least amount of physical or mental effort, Americans tend to like comfort over performance.

I lump most Americans into a category I created called non-drivers. Non-drivers are people who consider driving to be a low level mental activity, they drive off of reaction instead of planning, they just shut their brain off, mash the gas and steer to wherever they need to be.

and those people are the reason i keep my car in the garage most the time expect the weekends.

 

[Big Ron]

I know you're kidding but Americans are generally not interested in driving fast or even skillfully for that matter. Americans are generally interested in getting from place to place with the least amount of physical or mental effort, Americans tend to like comfort over performance.

I lump most Americans into a category I created called non-drivers. Non-drivers are people who consider driving to be a low level mental activity, they drive off of reaction instead of planning, they just shut their brain off, mash the gas and steer to wherever they need to be.

Maybe that´s the reason they invented oval racing...hahaha

 

[CaptainHarlock]

Some people have already brought this up, but it bears repeating; there's no real racing "little league" in the United States. Where do you go to pursue racing? Off hand I can't think of many places. High schools across the country have baseball, football, and basketball teams where participation is largely free. There are public fields and courts all over cities. There aren't many race tracks in the U.S. and the ones that are here are usually devoted to NASCAR with some exceptions.

Also consider the sports landscape in the United States is very crowded, and the four major sports (baseball, basketball, football, and hockey) garner much of the coverage. Kids can turn on a television and see Derek Jeter, LeBron James, Peyton Manning, and Sydney Crosby. Where do you see Sebastian Vettel? Or Fernando Alonso? On Speed Network usually in the very early morning/late nights. If you're an F1 fan in the U.S., it can be a challenge finding a race. Every Sunday I know where to find the NFL.

The other thing is that racing in the United States suffers from the same affliction that soccer does, there's not a lot of money to be made from it. At least the non-NASCAR racing. Baseball, football, and basketball players make in the tens of millions of dollars. Racing is expensive to get into, and there's not a good return on it unless you're in the top tiers.

A lot of us in the U.S. also see driving as a very mundane task. Taking the kids to school, going for groceries, driving to work. Much of it isn't very fun, and we have to put up with these;

Yes, there are still plenty of these gas guzzling monstrosities on the road. Not very nimble, not very fast, and about as fun to drive as a shopping car (or trolley if you're in the UK). Usually the guy/woman driving it has no idea what they're doing, who are still convinced they have to tow their boat that they don't own, down to the ocean that they live nowhere even remotely close to. So you can kind of see where I'm going with this. It's downright dangerous out there.

I don't have an ending.

 

[Grayfox]

Americans are generally interested in getting from place to place with the least amount of physical or mental effort, Americans tend to like comfort over performance.

So the image i have of some Americans wanting to get the biggest pick up with the largest engine displacement says nothing

 

[RustyNut]

Some people have already brought this up, but it bears repeating; there's no real racing "little league" in the United States. Where do you go to pursue racing? Off hand I can't think of many places. High schools across the country have baseball, football, and basketball teams where participation is largely free. There are public fields and courts all over cities. There aren't many race tracks in the U.S. and the ones that are here are usually devoted to NASCAR with some exceptions.

Also consider the sports landscape in the United States is very crowded, and the four major sports (baseball, basketball, football, and hockey) garner much of the coverage. Kids can turn on a television and see Derek Jeter, LeBron James, Peyton Manning, and Sydney Crosby. Where do you see Sebastian Vettel? Or Fernando Alonso? On Speed Network usually in the very early morning/late nights. If you're an F1 fan in the U.S., it can be a challenge finding a race. Every Sunday I know where to find the NFL.

The other thing is that racing in the United States suffers from the same affliction that soccer does, there's not a lot of money to be made from it. At least the non-NASCAR racing. Baseball, football, and basketball players make in the tens of millions of dollars. Racing is expensive to get into, and there's not a good return on it unless you're in the top tiers.

A lot of us in the U.S. also see driving as a very mundane task. Taking the kids to school, going for groceries, driving to work. Much of it isn't very fun, and we have to put up with these;

Yes, there are still plenty of these gas guzzling monstrosities on the road. Not very nimble, not very fast, and about as fun to drive as a shopping car (or trolley if you're in the UK). Usually the guy/woman driving it has no idea what they're doing, who are still convinced they have to tow their boat that they don't own, down to the ocean that they live nowhere even remotely close to. So you can kind of see where I'm going with this. It's downright dangerous out there.

I don't have an ending.

I feel your pain man, I fing despise the vast majority of suv drivers.

Lately I've noticed a bunch of Americans have been getting into "sport suvs", muranos, tribecas, x3s/x5s etc.

These idiots think their "sport suvs" are actually sporty, I can't really say I'm sick of idiots in their suvs constantly trying to race me, because it's pretty satisfying smoking them in my badgeless WRX, but it can be an annoyance. Every single time I drive either some bro with a backwards hat and an x5 tries to race me or some dumb soccer mom with bumblebee sunglasses and a murano does.

Why is it so hard for Americans to understand there's absolutely nothing sporty about an suv on pavement?

So the image i have of some Americans wanting to get the biggest pick up with the largest engine displacement says nothing

That's kind of an older trend that's definitely fading, I'm sure it's going strong in the south because those guys actually use their trucks, other rural areas apply too, but the trend is starting to lean towards "sport suvs" in a big way.

 

[Big Ron]

I feel your pain man, I fing despise the vast majority of suv drivers.

Lately I've noticed a bunch of Americans have been getting into "sport suvs", muranos, tribecas, x3s/x5s etc.

These idiots think their "sport suvs" are actually sporty, I can't really say I'm sick of idiots in their suvs constantly trying to race me, because it's pretty satisfying smoking them in my badgeless WRX, but it can be an annoyance. Every single time I drive either some bro with a backwards hat and an x5 tries to race me or some dumb soccer mom with bumblebee sunglasses and a murano does.

Why is it so hard for Americans to understand there's absolutely nothing sporty about an suv on pavement?

Man, I can tell you, the same **** came to Germany as well. You can see 500 times more SUVs in Germany than 10 years before. Everybody drives Audi Q7, BMW X5, Mercedes M class or VW Touareg.

And now guess, who had this famous idea?.....thank you America.

 

[Mercenary_Wez]

Texas is the most fattest state in US. But Arkansas looks OK to me.

Talking about driving, once my car broke 50 miles from Little Rock and some AAA guy loaded it on his huge tow track. He was driving back 80 mph on quite wavy road and sometimes was steering by his knees cause he put some notes in his notebook.

That's what I call driving!

Thanks!

I grew up 30 miles from laguna seca, but never made it to a race there. then I lived in Tampa FL, we had the St Pete GP, and Sebring. But all of the people I hung out with were into drag racing. So I never made it there either. We are focused on straight line power, and it is such a shame.

 

[otago]

Yes, there are still plenty of these gas guzzling monstrosities on the road. Not very nimble, not very fast, and about as fun to drive as a shopping car (or trolley if you're in the UK).

You should know one thing about american cars: they destroy everything in same price range.

New stock Mustang GT on track is as fast as BMW M3 (see motortrend test). Corvette Z06 and Viper ACR below 100.000$ kill anything with under 200.000$ price tag

 

[Eksle]

Yeah with the build quality of a kit car, then you fit something like Ultima GTR into the equation and it pisses all over them again. Next.

 

[CaptainHarlock]

To Big Ron and Rusty Nut (not quoting just for space purposes);

The whole "sport SUV" thing is really annoying too. I see the Chevrolet Equinox a lot here, as well as the Ford Edge (nothing "edgey" about it). There's still this misguided perceptions that SUVs are "safe". I always hear this a lot from SUV owners; "You'll never survive being hit by a tractor trailer in a small car". Guess what genius? You won't survive in ANY car! Forty tons vs. 8,000lbs. Do the math! I do stand up comedy on the side, and SUV owners are the butt of many of my jokes. You still have some jokers who say "I need this to drive my kids around". Well maybe if your kids weren't so fat they'd fit into a Honda Civic!

Personally, I drive a Volvo S70 GLT. Not very flashy, but I love it. However, I get quite a few dirty looks from the guys driving the trucks, probably because I didn't "buy American". Well I don't want a shopping car on wheels that gets 11mpg. Try making a decent passenger car and maybe I'll buy one.

Big Ron, I imagine the SUV craze won't last long in Germany, once the reality of how much petrol they suck down sets in. Here in the United States, the "Big 3" aren't giving them up easily. They may be getting smaller, but they're still out there. Mainly because the auto makers have a higher profit margin on them. My nephew offers me a glimmer of hope. He's eighteen and he told me his "dream car" is a, believe it or not, a Fiat 500!

 

[Jake_The_Snake]

Because its America and Europe where talking about. Do you see the cars that come out of Europe compared to cars America makes? There just better deal with it.

This.
I live in the southeastern US...many, many fatties(not me fortunately). The US, especially rural US, is full of big, slow trucks/SUVs that many people favor mostly due to the safety factor of traveling at 70+ mph. Most of the people who favor said cars are indeed large hairy beasts that use their vehicles for outdoor work/play or to pickup their chubby offspring from soccer practice. When ANY automaker views demographics of top selling vehicles here in the states...an easy conclusion is reached. Most Americans like big, nasty rides. Nothing was wrong with that in the 60's and 70's when a big, nasty muscle car from the US was on almost every driver's wishlist. But now the Chevelles, GTO Judges, and Dodge Chargers have gone the way of the dodo in exchange for gas efficiency and safety. I myself don't subscribe to the Made in America thing because frankly we make cars I don't like to drive...certain exceptions apply. I own an Infiniti and a BMW and love both dearly. But when the Ford F-150 is the best selling car WORLDWIDE...you can't say that the yanks that love the sporty European style get a fair shake at it.

 

[Shadow Wulf 2k]

I know you're kidding but Americans are generally not interested in driving fast or even skillfully for that matter. Americans are generally interested in getting from place to place with the least amount of physical or mental effort, Americans tend to like comfort over performance.

I lump most Americans into a category I created called non-drivers. Non-drivers are people who consider driving to be a low level mental activity, they drive off of reaction instead of planning, they just shut their brain off, mash the gas and steer to wherever they need to be.

As an American I find this post...... ........dead-on correct!

Sadly, motorsports (outside NASCAR) and performance driving isn't very big here. Most people's idea of performance driving in the States is lining up with someone else at a light and accelerating down a straight road.

 

[RustyNut]

Meh, I don't really like American cars or Euro cars, American cars are too heavy and Euro cars are too unreliable and expensive to repair. I prefer a light, nimble, powerful AND reliable Japanese car. If it weren't for Japanese automakers pushing both American and European car manufacturers we wouldn't be where we are today with car technology. I feel confident saying that.

 

[CaptainHarlock]

You should know one thing about american cars: they destroy everything in same price range.

New stock Mustang GT on track is as fast as BMW M3 (see motortrend test). Corvette Z06 and Viper ACR below 100.000$ kill anything with under 200.000$ price tag

No doubt American made cars are getting better. It's been a while in the making. Detroit has been on this "boom-bust" cycle for the last 25 years. Now it looks like they're finally learning some valuable lessons, but we'll have to see how long that lasts. A man by the name of Paul Ingrassia has written a book called "Crash Course", about the couple of decades of his covering the auto industry. He was on the Daily Show a while back, and it was quite interesting.