Why is there no classification system for the cars in this game?

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Oversteerin'

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Does anyone else find the lack of a classification system for the cars in this game to be a major design oversight? Gran Turismo has always been this way, and that may have been ok in 1997, but it's not in 2010. It just seems like PD buried their heads in the sand the past 6 years while working on GT5, and out of either ignorance or arrogance, ignored every innovation that was made in the genre by games like Forza and many others.

I think it's extremely lame that I can jump into almost any race and just crush the competition without any real skill required because there's never any power limit or restriction on tires. Where's the fun in that? At least in Forza, there were class restrictions in virtually every single event, and within the constraints of each race's qualifications, your competition was chosen based on your specific car's capabilities. With adjustable difficulty levels, this created a real challenge at the higher levels in the game, and that is something that is sorely missing here.

Based on this and many other disappointing factors, I have to agree (at least with the second part of this statement) with IGN's take on the game: "it's a 10/10 simulator wrapped in a 5/10 game." Anyone else care to comment? And please, no fanboy comments in this thread for either GT OR Forza. Objectively-based comments only, thanks.
 
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Better not to have a classification system then have a broken one like Forza's.
 
maxpontiac
Better not to have a classification system then have a broken one like Forza's.
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Maybe they could add one thats not borken? just a thought. Being able to beat most races just by having a faster car kills ant skill/Sim element, and is poor design.
 
PP is better. It needs to come back.
 
maxpontiac
Better not to have a classification system then have a broken one like Forza's.
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I agree that Forza's system needs to weed out the "ringer cars," but c'mon, you really don't find anything wrong with this? If you can't be objective, please don't post.
 
They do need car classification but i guess that's why we have hp cap and tire restrictions so i guess that works. They just need to add more features to the restrictions so lobby's can be more specific
 
realwerewolf
Maybe they could add one thats not borken? just a thought. Being able to beat most races just by having a faster car kills ant skill/Sim element, and is poor design.
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You know, you don't have to exploit the fact that the races are unrestricted.

Aside from that, the only system to restrict the cars I'd like to see would be something close to the real life rules that are somewhat common:
Road legality, horsepower, weight, drive train and so on.
 
A classification system is definitely needed. For example, if a race is limited to 150 horsepower I can go stomp the guts out of some old Hondas with my Caterham. It may be the same on power, but it weighs less than half as much so really isnt a contest.
Even with a classification system that has some flaws you could at least get in the ballpark of the opponents.
 
Kreepnslayer
A classification system is definitely needed. For example, if a race is limited to 150 horsepower I can go stomp the guts out of some old Hondas with my Caterham. It may be the same on power, but it weighs less than half as much so really isnt a contest.
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That's why a system that allows uus to set min/max power and min/max weight would be needed, along with tyres, at the very least.
 
Honestly I'm not sure what you mean. A car classification system? Personally I think the PP system in Prologue and the points system in Forza are epic failures. If you want a tight race or something, then you put in restrictions, weight, power, drive, power/weight ratio etc. I mean the problem is that they have races where its limited to one or two things. If you have races with a number of properly set limitations, you'll find the field much closer together in performance if that's what you're looking for. Personally I think points systems are ill advised because they can make things both obscenely difficult or mind numbingly easy.
 
Maybe restrictions based on hp, weight and drivetrain would be good to have, with the ability to add weight or reduce hp like they do in touring car racing to meet restrictions.
 
PP solves a huge flaw in SigmaViper's idea. 1 HP does not equal 1 HP across different cars. If you wanted to get a tight race, like PP provides, using just restrictions, you would end up with a multipage document [exaggeration, a little, but you get the point].

Part restrictions don't have any advantages over PP at all really. Restrictions are probably more clumsy and provide more room for error. However, they do allow for a larger variety of restrictions. It would probably be best to have PP and the current HP/weight restriction options online.

PP would also be a nice guide for offline players that don't want to guess at what car would be just right for their next race in terms of difficulty.


alexleighton
the ability to add weight or reduce hp like they do in touring car racing to meet restrictions.
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Also a must have.
 
Any classification system just comes across as restrictive and unnecessary. I'd much rather choose for myself which vehicle I think would be competitive for a particular race. Likewise, does it really matter to anyone if there's people who abuse this freedom? That's their loss only.
 
alexleighton
Maybe restrictions based on hp, weight and drivetrain would be good to have, with the ability to add weight or reduce hp like they do in touring car racing to meet restrictions.
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That's the idea behind a classification system like the one used in Forza. The only issue with Forza's is that certain cars, like the Saleen S7, fall into loop holes where even though they meet weight and power requirements for a given class, they are far better than everything else in that class because of anomalies in the physics algorithms that overexaggerate their performance capabilities. It's a great system, but these" ringer cars" need to be reworked and then categorized appropriately because it canabalizes the whole idea of competitive racing.
 
Add restrictions all you want for online games, but if you don't like the idea of overpowering single player races then exercise some self control and do it yourself. I don't want to have to putz around in some sub 150hp grocery getter so that the moronic AI can play bumper cars with me. I would rather blow the crap out of the race with a 600hp car so that I can advance to the fun races.

It's easy enough to impose these restrictions on yourself through self control. Not all of us want to have a white knuckled race with bloody daihatsu midgets. If you can't manage that degree of self control on something you want, then I suggest you never go to las vegas.
 
cwm33
Add restrictions all you want for online games, but if you don't like the idea of overpowering single player races then exercise some self control and do it yourself. I don't want to have to putz around in some sub 150hp grocery getter so that the moronic AI can play bumper cars with me. I would rather blow the crap out of the race with a 600hp car so that I can advance to the fun races.

It's easy enough to impose these restrictions on yourself through self control. Not all of us want to have a white knuckled race with bloody daihatsu midgets. If you can't manage that degree of self control on something you want, then I suggest you never go to las vegas.
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Amen brother, amen.
 
Yea, we had power limits in GT2. All you did was smack on slicks and presto, you still have the uber car in the race. They were more or less pointless. Same in Forza - Oh, need a B Class car. What did you do? Tune it to more or less race car level, just without everything on it. Big whoop.

It's up to you to not make it boring. You control the difficulty level. If it's "too easy" go try winning the GT World Championship with a Vitz. Because you can! (Well, you can try, no way in hell you stand a chance)

They already more or less have a restriction system setup, and they do it by individual cars. However, not many races are restricted.

But why should a GT350R Mustang / 427 Cobra not be allowed in the Classic Car Cup? It's clearly above everything else your going to race there.... It's a slippery slope. But, it's a classic none the less.
 
I see it as the option is up to you.

You can be a puss and go grab a significantly higher powered car to win

or

You can hone your skills by picking a car and tuning it to match better with the cars in the career mode.

Of course none of this applies when you are racing online with real people.
 
Luminis
That's why a system that allows uus to set min/max power and min/max weight would be needed, along with tyres, at the very least.
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It is like that in the online room settings.
 
EmptyBox
It's up to you to not make it boring. You control the difficulty level. If it's "too easy" go try winning the GT World Championship with a Vitz. Because you can! (Well, you can try, no way in hell you stand a chance)
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A bit off topic, but I'm very tempted to try my F150 lightning in the GT World cup just to see if I can win it with a truck. :lol:
 
You guys are basically asking for something that wouldn't actually make sense anyway. Think about it, if you wanted class racing, then you should head on over to GTR as that is the way it's actually done. GT series is about car and driver, hence why you see a race with similar cars and type. They give you different criteria that you can choose to abide by if you wish, they lay the template and you come up with what you choose to your satisfaction. Just one look at some of the requirements is hilarious, cars made before 1969, british lightweights and stuff like that. You can choose a car that fits and either be grossly overpowered or get your ass handed to you because you had a pretty weak car. You can always look at the usual suspects and choose a car accordingly. It's all how you make it, it's your game.

Online well that is another story completely, but still you do have hp, weight limits and most individuals for the most part know which cars can compete competitively given certain criteria. What we need is a way to detune some cars, maybe i would like to find out how a McLaren F1 drives with a lowly 300hp, or what a Saleen S7 is like should it have 350 instead of 550hp. Where are the air restrictors? Why can't we have those in there? We have Nascar and they use those to quickly lower HP, come on PD work that out.
 
Does everyone want GT5 to be like..Forza??
 
Silver-Sylph
Does everyone want GT5 to be like..Forza??
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Only in the ways that make sense. Forza is a great game and got a lot more right than people give it credit for. Both T10 and PD should try to out-do each other and not rest on their laurels. That's the only way we, the paying customer, will truly win. Things like a car classification system should be in the game IMHO.
 
Classification should have indeed been included. Saddened and disappointed not to see it.
 
The last thing I want is to have to make these races take even longer. I want to have some really fast cars including the X1, not have close racess where i get frustrated about how slow it is. GT is an accurate simulator - i've been in enough cars from other people alone to get enough of an average car. I want to drive fast cars here, since i can't do that in life!

As said, you can restrict yourself if you want - i don't.

Edit: I also don't want to have to buy more cars to meet requirements, difficult enough as it is.
 
SigmaViper11
Honestly I'm not sure what you mean. A car classification system? Personally I think the PP system in Prologue and the points system in Forza are epic failures. If you want a tight race or something, then you put in restrictions, weight, power, drive, power/weight ratio etc. I mean the problem is that they have races where its limited to one or two things. If you have races with a number of properly set limitations, you'll find the field much closer together in performance if that's what you're looking for. Personally I think points systems are ill advised because they can make things both obscenely difficult or mind numbingly easy.
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This. Also with the new patch its easy to set these kinds of restrictions in online lobby so the OP has no case, furthermore the folks in Forza all race the same damn cars and it sucks. I like the fact that everybody in GT rarces with different cars.
 
Bogie 19th
Classification should have indeed been included. Saddened and disappointed not to see it.
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That system might be returning but in online play as it would make little sense to add it to the main game. It worked well in Gt Prologue, I like the fact that you do not have stat bars which to gauge how well a car performs, in FM3 that always made the game pretty boring as everyone would pick the usual suspects in a race. PP points give you an overall idea or performance but it's not too clinical and revealing which makes it much better than the one in FM3. Knowing too much is detrimental to your enjoyment sometimes, mystery and intrigue can help increase the fun, unless you picked the V16 Cietza, well then good luck.
 
The class system in Forza isn't perfect but it's much much better then nothing. Yes, there will always be cars that out perform others with the same P.I (mainly due to the track, i.e power circuits, downforce circuits and technical circuits) and if you impose other simple restrictions, you can get very close results with many different cars. Things such as A600 Front mount rear wheel drives.

The biggest failing of the system is the very bad implementation of the 4WD swaps. Why did no one think 'Hey look, I can put 4WD in this car, it will make it heaps faster and bring its P.I down. That must get fixed!'?
 
I'd prefer pp points over the current implementation. Its too open at the momemnt and difficult to correctly judge what hardware you need for the job without trial and error. Sometimes under sometimes overpowered.

Even online buddy races if the cars were grouped you could ally group rules to car selection easier.
 
SleazyBig slim
This. Also with the new patch its easy to set these kinds of restrictions in online lobby so the OP has no case, furthermore the folks in Forza all race the same damn cars and it sucks. I like the fact that everybody in GT rarces with different cars.
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I have no case? Wow. For starters, we aren't talking about online, we are talking about career mode. But, the point still applies to the online mode, as a more intricate balancing system would result in much more competitive racing then the current restrictions system.

But then again, maybe you're right - races with no restrictions that make it all about having an overpowered machine rather than actual skill level is what racing is all about. That's why in real life, there are no regulations in sanctioned racing. Oh, wait... :rolleyes:
 
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