"Why Nerds Are Unpopular"

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http://www.paulgraham.com/nerds.html

A friend of mine posted this up on another forum, and I believe it sums up my feelings regarding school and general school/teenage life. I had to share it here.

I am in an odd situation, personally. I'm not what would typically be seen as nerdy. In fact, I could be the opposite, being big and strong-looking, etc. But, the point is is that I still choose, socially, to place my studies and my pursuit of information at the top of my list of priorities. Therefore, I am not generally included as a part of any cliques or claques and etc. What I realized during my enlightenment of sorts coincides greatly with what is expressed in the article.

So, my point in posting this is that I think it would be very interesting to read what you all have to say about this article and your experiences in school and/or growing up in your own peer-fabricated society. I think we can all benefit from the circulation of these opinions and anecdotes. It can help those forumers here that are in similar situations to have clearer insight, and could also serve as good counsel for those seeking resources for the guidance of their own (future) children.
 
Who cares about intelligence really. All you need is charisma and confidence.

Seriously I know alot of smart people that are cool, I was decently popular in my school, and I was one of the biggest hella nerds around.

For example, I'm a nerd, I have interests that are non mainstream, if people ask me what I do, who cares what I do, tell them you are into D&D, tell them you like watching anime at home when you have nothing to do, all they care about is how confident you portray yourself. I remember when I was a little kid in primary school, I only had one friend that had the same nerdy interest as me. I was close to just sticking with being a nerd for my life and stay on the social fringe.


Then I realized people didn't care what you were into as long as you were sociable and confident. The typical nerd's problems all spawn from his lack of confidence. I know how hard it is to change for a nerd, especially when you easily fall into the stereotypes.

Yea. That's my rant, sounds easy when you write about it but I do agree that it is hella hard.

From my perspective, when I see the typical nerd, I do tend to think, "****, why are you the way you are, your hobbies don't make you, your image makes you". If people just realized that, they'd be alot popular.

Oh lawd I'm repeating things. In conclusion I present Weird Al Yankovic.
 
In high school I sat at the "A" table. I dated the "it" girl at my school and we were the "it" couple our senior year. We were given the annual "cutest couple" honors in our yearbook. At my school, you didn't have to play sports to be popular. If you were a big party goer with good looks, you were a part of the in crowd. I never had a tough time in school. I played soccer and ran track but I also was the head party guy in our school. It was my house that was notorious as the place to go on the weekends. I remember having cops parked in a field in front of my house for 3 straight weekends to try and scare off the habitual parties.

I'm glad I was a part of the crowd in school. I can always look back on those days and know I lived them to the fullest. I miss high school so much. Once high school is over, popularity means nothing. After graduation, the summer is filled with your friends still. Once fall comes, people start moving and carving their own paths in life. Popularity means nothing after high school. You will find yourself speaking and being spoken to by people you never spoke with in school once you've been out a year or two and see them around in some random place.
 
Immediately after I had begun reading the article, I had to giggle just a bit, as in my last year of high-school ('04-'05) I did a similar "joke" map of the lunch room, and it was very scary once we had all realized that in the building in which we all thought that we were without cliques, it had remained a very segregated school in terms of who hung out with who, etc.

In our own little clique, so eloquently titled the "A-hole Gamers," we had managed to find a sweet spot in the clique hierarchy. As a mish-mosh of high-ranking folks in the school and people that would otherwise be classified as "dorks," we had managed to squeeze in between the Jocks, the theater kids, and the other rich kids. Mark was a Football star, Matt was an awesome bass player, Sean was the comedian, Karl was the hardcore gamer, and I was the media whore, appearing both on the morning news program and in the school paper.

Our clique chose to not take sides with anyone, and had managed to start a mini-war with the theater kids at one point. We didn't care if we were popular, as we had more than enough fun doing what we cared most about. Bitching about Halo 2, telling stupid jokes, and arguing over other stupid things. None of us were ranked any higher or lower than we anyone else, and that helped keep the group together... Although, now that we are all spread out over the midwest, its hard to function as a group these days.

---

I suppose what it comes down to is how important it is to the individual how popular they are. For us, we didn't really care. We didn't need the glory of the jocks, and we didn't need the money of the rich kids to prove our worth at school. Maybe flying under the radar was better for all of us. We didn't necessiarily need to set an example for those who follow, we didn't need to worry about what could happen with every one of our slight mistakes.

I mean sure, we all had dreams of being "popular" and what that brought with it, but we could get along just as easily without it. I didn't want to be a part of the party scene, as I certainly didn't want to end up in one of those awkward Monday morning stories you always heard about. No, we preferred a different kind of story. The kind where you had to be there, or you just wouldn't understand. One where we could go down to the music concerts and hang-out, play Halo 2 until 5AM, play miniature golf across the neighbors backyards...

I miss high school, I really do. The social landscape of high school, particularly with my group of friends is something that has been hard to replace, and I doubt I ever will. I don't find many people anymore who share similar interests like they did, as most people would certainly call it "too nerdy." What I don't miss is the outrageous party scene (although that still happens in College, but it certainly can be more mature...), and I certainly don't miss all of the overplayed teen drama over nothing but spilled milk.
 
That article is 100% truth. I'm anxious to hear what our foreign friends have to say about it, because this is the most accurate description of the american Public Education System that I've ever read, and I'd like to know how good/bad it is in other countries.

I guess you could say I was a nerd, but that would sort of imply that I studied hard and cared about my education. I couldn't care less -- I didn't quite figure out the fallacies of the whole popularity contest until the later years of highschool, but I figured out very early on that a public school education is completely pointless. Hell, even at my Technical College, I've taken maybe 2 or 3 classes (out of a total of 13 so far) that are of any real value to me, and I'm forced to "go through the motions" of taking these other classes just to get my 2-year degree and transfer to a 4-year University, where hopefully I'll be able to concentrate on classes that are relevant to my desired profession. Anyway, I almost never study, I rarely prepare for class, and I almost always do the bare minimum that is necessary to get by. Throughout elementary school, middle school, and high school, that was good enough for straight A's. It's only now in college where I'm starting to get some (rightly deserved) B's and C's.

As far as the popularity contest goes, and the cliques that inevitably form, one of the most prominent clashes I can recall were in 4th grade, where my class literally faced off in a very heated war between the "Bithians" (all of the girls of the class and a few of the guys, who all had some sort of fixation on the book, "Bridge to Terabithia") and a much smaller group that consisted of myself, my best friend Marquiz (who is still my best friend to this very day), and a handful of the other guys in the class (some of whom would switch sides now and then). This hatred culminated in physical encounters during recess, involving chasing/yelling/namecalling in the warmer months, and very serious snowball fights in the winter. When 5th grade came along, a strange opportunity came about which allowed us to stay together and keep the same teacher, and although the war tapered down to almost non-existence, old rivalries still appeared in the dodgeball games that became a 5th grade tradition with our class. Looking back on it, the whole war was very much like "the Lord of the Flies," though not as violent. It was just stupid, although I'm actually proud of Marquiz and myself for spectacularly and actively rebelling against the rest of the class, instead of just being shoved aside as outcasts. The former is much more fun than the latter. :lol:

Another clash came about in highschool, where my group of unpopular, outcast friends decided one day that they hated me. Even my girlfriend-at-the-time was in on it, and Marquiz was the only one who wasn't. I don't know why or how it all came to be (otherwise I'd tell you more), but eventually one of my bike tires got slashed and school authorities intervened. Shortly after that, the hatred dissipated. The funny part of this story is that one of my current coworkers was a member of that group, another member is now her fiancee, and Marquiz's current girlfriend was yet another member. All of us get along just fine today.

Overall, though, middle school was by far the worst. In the later years of elementary school, I was a rebel. In high school, I was picked on by some people, but left alone by the vast majority, and by the time high school ended, I didn't give a 🤬 what people thought of me, and actually gained more popularity because of my confidence, as MdnIte brought up. Middle school was much more like the prison analogy that this author liked to use. During class, I had no one to chat with, no one wanted to be my partner in any group activities, and I just sorta shut everything out, living in my own little world within the confines of my desk. In the halls, I was persecuted, picked on, and even physically attacked. During lunch, my friends and I ate at our own little segregated table, occasionally being confronted by a bully. Gym class was by far the most boot-camp-like P.E. class I've ever had at any level of school. In fact, aside from my very small group of close friends, the only places I fit in were in Band and in Strings class (I managed to get the school to let me opt out of French or Spanish, taking both music classes instead).

It got so bad that I was invited, along with a couple of my friends and a few acquaintances, to a private group that met with a counselor once a week to discuss popularity, cliques, etc. He told me that high school would be better. I didn't believe him at the time. Looking back, I guess he was sorta right.



In conclusion, for me, the social structure of school was something that I never cared about. Even when I surpassed the very depressing years of middle school and became a little bit more well-liked, I didn't care much about anyone else, because A. I eventually learned that popularity didn't really matter, and B. most of the kids around me were too goddamned stupid for me to waste my time becoming close friends with them. Unfortunately, it's even more difficult to find intelligent people in the real world. :lol:

Between the retarded social structure and countless hours of my life wasted in a stuffy classroom, I was positively ecstatic when I finally graduated from high school and escaped the public education system. Every now and then, I still give my high school the finger as I drive by.
 
[…] and I was one of the biggest hella nerds around.
By completely random chance, do you happen to live in northern California?

I was picked on semi-often in elementary school for various reasons, and always got upset about it. But by the time I got to middle school, I realized several things:

1) Some kids are asses and will always be asses.
2) Those kids aren’t worth worrying about.
3) People can tell if you’re trying to be what you’re not.
4) It doesn’t take much to reach across cliques and make friends from the entire (entire) spectrum.

All of this hit me in 6th grade, and that’s when I became a much happier person. I was suddenly willing to engage with people, and my enemies stopped being a nuisance at that point. I became friends with smart kids, dumb kids, popular kids (the non-ass kind), nerdy kids, and everything in between, and by the end of middle school I was what I’d call a very well-liked person.

If you just keep those four points in mind, you shouldn’t have any problems (unless you have incredibly bad B.O. or something). I think that people tend to over-complicate these social/psychological issues and hypothesize frameworks that aren’t there.
 
Because they use that word a lot (just look at the Wiktionary definition). Half of my suitemates are from northern California, and I simply can’t escape from that word…
 
I was picked on a lot in elementary school and going into middle school. I always had the good grades and if there was group work it was left to me to do that work. I was playing video games before there was Nintendo. I had a computer before there was a computer monitor. I was raised to be a nerd as this was all set in front of me and I was admonished for getting a B.

But then because of my medical issues I became somewhat angry at the world. When people made fun of me I came right back at them with some sort of remark. I was quick to duck a punch and back away. Usually that bought enough time to have someone step in.

I was on the academic team and that was the group that became my friends. Going into high school one of our members was Korean born and decided to have a Tae-Kwon-Do class taught by his dad. Suddenly the nerds weren't easily pushed around and we began making fun of the "rednecks" and "jocks" for being rednecks and jocks. It only took someone to get into a fight with one of us before they backed off. By the time we left high school we were still never popular but we were never pushed around either.

When I got into college it took me a semester to get used to the idea that being in the honors program actually didn't make me the subject of ridicule. When I walked to class I had to give myself an extra half hour to account for socializing with people I met along the way. I even got to know a few members of the cheerleading and dance teams and was in a study group with a football player who actually went pro (Artose Pinner). By that time video games had become cool and the guy down the hall that was in a frat would play Gran Turismo with me.

It is odd that even though my world changed and I am much more laid back I still avoid my home town and hate running into the people that used to make fun of me. For some reason I can't let it go. I think that part of it is because they give me fake smiles and talk about getting together sometime, yet never offer a phone number or any other way of coordinating getting together. I also have to admit that I take pleasure in seeing them run around with three kids and driving an old beater, talking about how they just finished divorcing the person they were dating in high school. I also feel better about myself when I see the girls that shot me down working somewhere like Wal*Mart and find out that they couldn't finish community college. I wonder if I would have had a better influence on them had they not turned me down or if they would have had a negative influence on me. Am I an a-hole for not letting all those old bitter feelings go? Should I not feel so prideful that I moved on much better than the rest of them? I mean, it will be ten years in May (and I won't be at the reunion).
 
That must be hella annoying situation.
I'm sure it only got worse after Cartman started using it on South Park, which was the first time I ever heard it used.
 
I didn't read it all. It was just too long. But here's the Welsh point of view.

In my comprehensive jocks existed, geeks existed, rockers existed, goths existed, nerds existed.

IMO, the worst jocks were the Football/soccer crowd. In typical football style they thought they were awesome. There were also the Rugby jocks, perhaps the Ice Hockey team of an American school. They were generally the 'harder' guys of the school, and I found fewer of them were assholes, but perhaps that's because I played alongside the.

Now the geeks, or more commonly swots, were the smart people. Notice how I also include Nerds, I'll get to that later.These were the people that made all the top sets and eventually took triple science, generally. These were just smart people, that would usually be part of another school social group.

Rockers. These were not the goths, these people tended to be much cooler than the goths when viewed by the general population. However, most were rarely seen on the yard and were usually sportingly inept.

Goths. This was a fairly small group in my comp. This usually meant pupils form several different years would group together. Normally ridiculed by the rest of the school, but again, they were a very small group in my school.

Now Nerds, these were the gamers of our school. The people that would bring their Gameboys into school in order to pass their lunch break. The people that would sit in IT classrooms on gaming sites all break. The difference was, most Nerds weren't the smartest in the school. Something that seems different in the American system.

Now I could go into detail about the female social group, but this was so confusing it was crazy. But simply, there were the Attractive and classy, the attractive an not classy, and the unattractives.

My group of friends was odd. There was me, the geek that played for the rugby team, there was my best mate that was the same, there was Jack (911_Carrera) that had 'geekish tendencies', played alot of sport and was very into music, and then there were several other athletic but smart people. There was also the 2 Jocks in our group, they weren't smart at all, but we'd known them before being smart was an issue. We were all fairly popular. We got invited to most parties, but not the more chav ones. Something that we really didn't mind that much.

The oddest thing I often found was when more popular people would call me a swot, yet I often beat them in the fitness runs we did in PE and could easily get the better of them in rugby.
 
7th grade was probably one of the toughest school experiences I've had to date. It was hell trying to make friends with people I'd never met before. This year when 8th grade rolled around, I couldn't ask for a better life. It's pretty amazing what a change of attitude, confidence, and a year can do. I get straight A's in school, I play football, and I have a very wide group of friends from almost every clique in the school. I discovered that, once you open up a bit, you'll begin making friends alot faster. I try not to discriminate against any person in our school. The way I see it, the more the merrier. A hundred friends is better than a hundred enemies, right?
 
...Maturity too. Going from 7th and 8th grade to 11th and 12th grade is a world of difference, although certainly many of our age 12 tendencies stick with us for quite some time.

Back when I was pre-teaching with 7th and 8th graders, the levels of innocence were staggering. They had no idea that life sucks, and I found it funny to be honest. Going back to visit a few of my highschool teachers a few weeks ago, I got the same feeling again with the Juniors and Seniors at my old stomping ground.

Until they have that "life-crushing blow" that I call "reality," life is amazingly simple. I miss it, I think we all do...
 
Well, I was okay in New York, not liked, but no one was particularly out to fight me. But ever since I moved here to SoCal, and the people learned I'm from the NYC, plus the different customs here, I get into a minimum of 3 fights a day. The fights are kinda fun, excitement, but it's not fun to have 90 percent of the school against you. A gang of over 20 people already attempted to steal my bike, and some Mexican threatened to '**** up Sean Gallagher's bike'. I told him, that if he even touches my bike, I'll know exactly who did it, so he didn't touch it. But, I've got some really popular friends, and some really strong ones, so the people fighting with me have a little bit of trouble getting to me. But the worst part is, whenever I get into a fight, I don't get visibly hurt. For example, my neck will feel all stiff, and my cheek feels bruised, but people don't see that. Instead, they see the big scratch on my opponent's arm (in that case, one of the school's bigger bosses). And, you know, the trouble. Although once, I kicked an asshole's ass, and gained some supporters. Seriously though, what they don't get is that I just want peace. They all seem to hate New York though, especially those Mexicans (most of them anyways), so they keep taking shots at me and pissing me off. If no one came looking for a fight, I wouldn't be fighting. Now, instead of my okay social life in New York, I've got a few bodyguard-type people, one really good friend, but at least 120 people who really hate me, at least 60 of whom I don't even know.
You know it's getting bad when that happens.
Well, at least more people here like cars. Damn, I think if I had a better idea of how Californians live, I would be in a slightly better position now.
 

You totally missed the point of that article.

We're talking about why nerds/geeks aren't aware how easy it is to be popular.

You fighting a bunch of Mexicans is not worthy of praise. Not to mention how old you are, I wouldn't be surprised if it was really was some idiot punching you in the arm because he thinks it's funny, then you come here and classify it as a fight. You're like, 12. I have never seen 12 years that can fight, they always end up in some stupid wrestling match.

But now I'm just rambling because my grasp of reality is being lost.
 
Why nerds are unpopular
Because "nerd" is a word people use to describe somebody that is unpopular, or that they don't like. And that means they don't like them. Nobody likes a nerd. If they did, they wouldn't be a nerd.

@ Sakiele (or whatever) - Your sig, is EXACTLY why everybody hates New Yorkers in general. (no, not everybody, and no, not all new yorkers). But crap like your sig is EXACTLY what gets you into crap.
Your from new york? I'm from York, what's your point? Does the city you grew up in make you some badass? you think it does, we don't.
 
@ Sakiele (or whatever) - Your sig, is EXACTLY why everybody hates New Yorkers in general. (no, not everybody, and no, not all new yorkers). But crap like your sig is EXACTLY what gets you into crap.
Your from new york? I'm from York, what's your point? Does the city you grew up in make you some badass? you think it does, we don't.

Yep. With that attitude, I can see why everyone hates him.
 
Surprisingly, you guys talk abouty being ghetto and knowing what a hard life you've got and how you endure it all through strength. Face it, none of you (I think) are over 25. You're all either in school or college; living with your parents and not working, getting allowances and the occasional treat from mum or dad for the weekend.

No offence, but you haven't no freakin' clue of what it's like to make your own living, not depending on your parents for money, board or food. And most of all, making your own money to pay for your own stuff. Wondering if you'll make it to the end of the month and if the bak is going to charge you for having negatives in the account. You've probably never spent a friday or saturday night at home watching TV because you haven't enough money to go to a pub and have a beer.

Being from NYC or SoCal or similar places doesn't mean you're tough or not. I've seen tougher dudes in Buffalo, NY and I'm not claiming I'm ghetto because I lived there, or in St. Paul, MN or other places in the US. Not even because I heard gunshots eveyr damn night in Caracas, Venezuela.

And even if you are, have you ever thought even for a second that this is the internet. A place where everyone is who he/she wants to be and where many people's claims have an 80% exaggeration in them?

oh yeah, I got beat up by a guy and he hurt me and I didn't cry because I'm so ghetto and stuff

You know what? Life sucks, get a helmet. By the time you're 18 you'll have been beat up by many people, deal with it. Being bullied is a part of life. Everyone has insecurities and some people just deal with them differently than others. Don't go thinking that because you're 12 (or 16 or 30 or 47) and you stood up to a fight or you have influential friends, that you've got life all figured out. You're going to get beat up physically, psychologically or spiritually so many times during your lifetime that you won't know where to go.

[/] end rant []

continue with discussion about why nerds are unpopular.
 
That post by Sakiale and the responses were exactly the kind of things I DID NOT want to see (thought I agree with what redrum had to say). That's not what this thread is about. Please, please, PLEASE read the article in its entirety before you make comments on it. This thread is not about your life yesterday, but how the ideas expressed in the article apply to you.
 
Wow, that is a really fantastic article, I had to stop halfway, cause my eyes hurt, but spot on material.
the only things I saw that I disagreed with were where he says about poor whites hating/mistreating blacks the most.
there are some, but there's plenty of non-poor white that do as well. And vice versa, there's plenty of poor whites that love blacks, and treat them in the same way the backup wide reciever treats the quarterback. (a number that is increasing rapidly).

I've typically gotten along with just about anybody, barring the highest most mightily wanna-be cool kids, that really rank in the middle area. Who seem overly jealous of just how much I seem to not give a damn.
I also think I've found that most black people I know, seem to outwardly respect and admire my courage to only conform what I want, when I like it.

What I know about popularity:
It is very important to not do things just because everybody else does. However, it is equally important to not hold back from doing things just because everybody else does it too.
A mistake many "outsiders" seem to make, in an effort to rebel.
 
I really was very uncool for all of my school life, always being that smart kid who knew everything, until last year... I got my big break, if you will. I was feeling tired of trying to be cool and I started to let go, bringing things like electronics schematics and what not to school, but I started showing off things like drawings as well. I drew a mural for a play we had in school. Everyone, i mean, EVERYONE said it looked amazing.

During rehearsal, I was sitting in a row near the back of the auditorium, slouched with my leg up on the chair in front of me, smiling here and there when someone missed a line or came up with a new idea. Then, out of the corner in my eye, I saw the most beautiful girl (no lie) in the entire school walking down the row. She sat right next to me and said 'hi Seth!'

The rest is history.
 
I think it's all thanks to the media of the modern world.

Think of a TV sitcom, now usually they have a smart guy or a "nerd" yes? How often are they the one's center of attention, the ones that make everyone laugh for the right reasons, the ones that get the chick and lives happily ever after?

Today's society depends on media way too much, it shapes everyones lives, 'trends' can be an example of this.

Just my two pennies.
 
Sorry, but what does that mean exactly? :confused:
Apparently football isn't your cup of tea.

Reciever's depend on quarterback to throw them the ball, and a backup reciever, given an oppourtunity to play, is going to desperatly want the chance to show how good he is, so, if the quarterback likes him, he might try to help him out.
Probabley not a sound practice, but it's what makes sense to recievers, and, some quarterbacks won't throw to guys they're angry with/don't like.
 
...I'd love to go on a Laguna Beach rant here, but I don't even have the energy to put fourth to completely tear apart the show. They are only cool because MTV thinks they are. IMO, they are overly privlaged kids who have nothing better to do but complain about how easy their life is. We had plenty of kids like that at my High School (I went to the second wealthiest school district in Michigan despite growing up in a blue-collar household with a bit of white-collar money). Complain, complain, spend money, complain, get dunk, have sex, complain, complain, etc. Who cares! They don't have any responsibility, they get whatever they want, and generally don't have any concept of what real life is like.

...Sure, I still live with my Mom, but I pay my own bills and pay for stuff around the (town)house. I buy the groceries, pay my car, insurance, gasoline, tuition, and other "things" that I deem necessary. I haven't had to borrow money from my Mom since high school, so lets say the tables have turned. Sure, I'd like to live on my own. But when you're making less than $20K a year and you know you couldn't make it (financially) on your own, living at home isn't a bad thing after all.

...'Cause you know, those kids in Southern California have got it so hard these days...
 
Apparently football isn't your cup of tea.

Reciever's depend on quarterback to throw them the ball, and a backup reciever, given an oppourtunity to play, is going to desperatly want the chance to show how good he is, so, if the quarterback likes him, he might try to help him out.
Probabley not a sound practice, but it's what makes sense to recievers, and, some quarterbacks won't throw to guys they're angry with/don't like.

Ahhh.. Well I'm not an American :)

We play rugby here... similar to American Football except we dont wear armour and padding.
 
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