Why not more Oversteer and Wheelspin

  • Thread starter Thread starter jweaver
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With S3 tires RWD cars are extremely hard to drive. Almost enough to break a man's spirit.

IRL do cars like the Z '06 have traction control and stability management? Without those things these cars seem dangerous. I don't see why they would be allowed on streets.
 
MowTin
With S3 tires RWD cars are extremely hard to drive. Almost enough to break a man's spirit.

IRL do cars like the Z '06 have traction control and stability management? Without those things these cars seem dangerous. I don't see why they would be allowed on streets.
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people don't speed and race on the streets -= at least good people don't, the ones that do, are the ones you see wrapped around a pole :sly:
 
Exactly.

200720ferrari20f43020sprr3.jpg
 
Ouch.

My take on having driven every late racing game, is that the dynamics in this sim truly deserve the title, "sim". Cant speak of the tuned cars, but the standard models are fairly spot on.

I have an 08 STi right now (with the USDM 2.5l) and the feeling is spot on. Truly unreal. As for the Skyline 350 sedan, other than a "bigger than reality" jump from 3rd to 4th gear, handling here is also spot on.
 
MowTin
Without those things these cars seem dangerous. I don't see why they would be allowed on streets.
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I've been toying with the Z06, I agree the amount of wheel spin seems a bit excessive, I'm using N3s front and rear, as I recall them being recommended (possibly even S1s for the higher powered cars?)

Either way, the Z06 on N3s seems almost a bit too wild, although it's damn fun!

I suppose I'm more questioning how realistic it is that the car is that savage, I'm certainly not complaining!
 
scandisk
Well at least his being honest :D
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Indeed.. I just want to know that there is the option for me to improve.. With standard physics and driver aids off, I had pretty much mastered the controllers already.. I just felt it was too easy..

I am not ready for Pro physics yet, but am releaved to know that there is something to work on.

Its not a sign of defeat by any means.. I was mearly stating that the 'standard' physics is very unreal.... And in time, I will move over to Pro, once I feel ready for the challange!

Jon
 
well forget standard physics and stick to pro. Just practice a lot, without practice you won't be able to handle the more powerful cars in pro mode. For example the Ford GT Concept by GranTurismo is really though with all aids off. When I made the video of the ford gt to show the interior it was my frist time driving it and with all aids off and it was really difficult to make one clean run (video on news-page). I would suggest to go with a light car for the beginning for example the honda civic type r in pro mode is really a good car to practice on I would say.

greetz

Numer0bis
 
I think you need the challenge now. The faster the better. First time I pick up GT5P (Japanese version) I right away switched to Pro so I won't lag behind if I go online. The more real the better. I don't know why this game even has Standard physics... If people come here to expect easy driving go play Need for Speed, ( not talking to you jweaver ;) )
 
jweaver.

My advice is to get stuck into the aidless, pro physics too! It's so much more rewarding to nail a smooth, fast lap using them.

A few hours of practice and you'll really wonder why you ever raced with the standard physics, there's that big a difference.

First lap i jumped into the 'Vette Z06 was really scary! The thing just bolted sideways, but that certainly encourages you to find a new level of smoothness in your driving.

Remember, slow is smooth and smooth is fast!
 
From what I've seen in the GT series, tires only affect when your car loses traction but now how.
If you break traction with a powerfull car on racing tires it should still be very very sudden.

And this sudden break of traction has never been simulated well enough IMO.
Because if a racing tire loses traction just a bit, the car that's powering the wheels will probably spin through the tires immediatly as well.
So it's from racing tire grip, to no grip in a second.
And all the g-forces that will break free in that force should get the car spinning of violently.

In Gran Turismo the car loses traction as well. But it's not crashing into the railings immediatly because of it.
So yeah the car loses traction, but not in the way it should be losing it.
And I hope this gets fixed for GT5 as well.

I haven't really played Prologue yet. But I don't really think it has changed a tiney bit yet, from GT HD. So I'm not going to spend money this time on the Prologue version.
Perhaps out of curiousity in a few days but I don't expect too much from it.
 
legroom
jweaver.
First lap i jumped into the 'Vette Z06 was really scary!
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Tell me about it, I first took it out on Eiger, after caressing it around the hairpins in 1st, short shifted to 2nd and unleashed it along the short straight, gave a great sense of sheer power as it surged towards the next corner, poor tyres whimpering for mercy :dopey:👍

Great car, and a great noise too :)
 
Niels
I haven't really played Prologue yet. But I don't really think it has changed a tiney bit yet, from GT HD. So I'm not going to spend money this time on the Prologue version.
Perhaps out of curiousity in a few days but I don't expect too much from it.
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I agree, people like you shouldn't be playing GT5P. You're the kind of person who formulates an opinion having not really played the game and yet you give us some spiel about how the physics aren't very good?

FAIL!
 
jweaver, I would highly suggest sticking to the Pro physics with all aids off, and simply start practicing with slower cars, working your way up until you can control something like the Viper again. I personally think slower and lighter cars offer a fulfilling driving experience that high-grip high-power monsters can't provide, anyway.

No matter how you slice it, practicing on one physics model in preparation for another doesn't really work. You'll still have to work just as hard to adjust.

Niels
I haven't really played Prologue yet. But I don't really think it has changed a tiney bit yet, from GT HD. So I'm not going to spend money this time on the Prologue version.
Perhaps out of curiousity in a few days but I don't expect too much from it.
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GTHD was terrifyingly awful; just a very, very mild improvement over the atrocity that was GT4's physics. Playing the kiosk demo at GameStop left me doubtful of GT5:P and GT5.

However, though I too have yet to play Prologue, I have heard from GTP members I trust that it is a massive leap above GTHD in terms of physics realism. If you already have a PS3 anyway, Prologue might not be a bad buy (personally I'd be more concerned about the relative lack of content than the enjoyability of the physics).
 
Niels
From what I've seen in the GT series, tires only affect when your car loses traction but now how.
If you break traction with a powerfull car on racing tires it should still be very very sudden.

And this sudden break of traction has never been simulated well enough IMO.
Because if a racing tire loses traction just a bit, the car that's powering the wheels will probably spin through the tires immediatly as well.
So it's from racing tire grip, to no grip in a second.
And all the g-forces that will break free in that force should get the car spinning of violently.

In Gran Turismo the car loses traction as well. But it's not crashing into the railings immediatly because of it.
So yeah the car loses traction, but not in the way it should be losing it.
And I hope this gets fixed for GT5 as well.

I haven't really played Prologue yet. But I don't really think it has changed a tiney bit yet, from GT HD. So I'm not going to spend money this time on the Prologue version.
Perhaps out of curiousity in a few days but I don't expect too much from it.
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So you say that GT5:P has only changed a tiny bit from GT-HD without playing it?

Sorry but that kind of nonsense will get you very little positive feedback here (and that's being very polite about it), the difference in the physics model between the two is huge.

The first 2/3rds of your post is very misleading, reading as if you actually have some experience of GT5:P.




Wolfe
jweaver, I would highly suggest sticking to the Pro physics with all aids off, and simply start practicing with slower cars, working your way up until you can control something like the Viper again. I personally think slower and lighter cars offer a fulfilling driving experience that high-grip high-power monsters can't provide, anyway.

No matter how you slice it, practicing on one physics model in preparation for another doesn't really work. You'll still have to work just as hard to adjust.


GTHD was terrifyingly awful; just a very, very mild improvement over the atrocity that was GT4's physics. Playing the kiosk demo at GameStop left me doubtful of GT5:P and GT5.

However, though I too have yet to play Prologue, I have heard from GTP members I trust that it is a massive leap above GTHD in terms of physics realism. If you already have a PS3 anyway, Prologue might not be a bad buy (personally I'd be more concerned about the relative lack of content than the enjoyability of the physics).
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To be fair to PD they never claimed any leap forward with the GT:HD physics, being quite open that it was a mildly tweaked version of the GT4 engine with better visuals. It was better than GT4, but not a huge amount.

It is a massive leap forward from GT4 and HD, with a ground up physics engine in the professional mode and it does show in a huge way. Very well realised under and oversteer, with great transition between the two. All manner of oversteer can be initiated, from power-over to lift off, flick and shift locks all doing the job (the latter being good for getting a Suzuki Cappo sideways - well power over is never going to work in that). The addition of the latest update also allows the ABS to be completely disabled, something that one again makes a huge difference.

Regards

Scaff
 
Scaff
To be fair to PD they never claimed any leap forward with the GT:HD physics, being quite open that it was a mildly tweaked version of the GT4 engine with better visuals.
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That I understand, but it didn't stop fans of the series from showing enthusiasm for the small changes on this forum, setting my expectations high before playing the demo. In any case, I was afraid that GTHD signified that PD was content with GT4's physics and wouldn't be making any sort of leap with GT5.

Scaff
It is a massive leap forward from GT4 and HD, with a ground up physics engine in the professional mode and it does show in a huge way. Very well realised under and oversteer, with great transition between the two. All manner of oversteer can be initiated, from power-over to lift off, flick and shift locks all doing the job (the latter being good for getting a Suzuki Cappo sideways - well power over is never going to work in that). The addition of the latest update also allows the ABS to be completely disabled, something that one again makes a huge difference.

Regards

Scaff
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I caught wind of the ABS thing in another thread. Impressive stuff, though I wonder if it's pointless to try with a controller, a la Forza 2.
 
Wolfe
That I understand, but it didn't stop fans of the series from showing enthusiasm for the small changes on this forum, setting my expectations high before playing the demo. In any case, I was afraid that GTHD signified that PD was content with GT4's physics and wouldn't be making any sort of leap with GT5.
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Which is why its always important to differentiate between what PD actually say and what people say they have said.

All the info I read in regard to GT:HD clearly stated that it was never intended to be the final product, while it was rumoured for a while that it may form the basis of a 'download' drip feed GT, that was never confirmed 100% by PD, nor did it ever happen. Don't you love the grand old rumour mill that is the net.


Wolfe
I caught wind of the ABS thing in another thread. Impressive stuff, though I wonder if it's pointless to try with a controller, a la Forza 2.
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If not had long enough to play around with it to a great degree myself (got GT5:P on Saturday morning and then had to go away with work for three days on Sunday after noon (not all bad three days training on a BMW site), but early experience does seem to indicate its easier to modulate than the FM1 and 2 brake lock-up.


Regards

Scaff
 
Hi guys,

Long time GT fan ever since GT1 and really fell in love with GT3 ASpec as time went on. in fact i still play i on a daily basis...obviously until GT4 came out then after about a week i was back at it again until GT:HD and likewise after a few days until yesterday when i downloaded prologue.

Now, im not gonna get into the freaky side of things regarding physics etc etc because im a fan of LFS an RACE on the PC and i think each to their own...they all have their pro's/con's. This topic caught my attention because i thought it was relevant to something i also felt in the GT games. The M3 was a typical example. I have seen and driven the new M3 and it certainly does NOT bog down on an upshift.

not going to get into a rant over something silly but has anyone actually drove the BLITZ Skyline yet?? im dying to get this car and see what its like since i actually compete in drifting in Ireland...Hopefully it can rekindle the GT3 drifting with the PS3 power and updated GT5 visuals.

just a quick vid infact showing that you dont need 100000bhp to spins wheels freely. My competition car has 185bhp in a 900kg car and runs 205 wide TOYO T1R tyres.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wP54FknaHM
 
Wolfe
That I understand, but it didn't stop fans of the series from showing enthusiasm for the small changes on this forum, setting my expectations high before playing the demo. In any case, I was afraid that GTHD signified that PD was content with GT4's physics and wouldn't be making any sort of leap with GT5.


I caught wind of the ABS thing in another thread. Impressive stuff, though I wonder if it's pointless to try with a controller, a la Forza 2.
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I liked using the controller in FM2 with out abs, I just got comfortable and found the sweet spot with the left trigger and had a blast. I'm not to happy with the PS3 controller, but may grow on me after we get our vibration back. It will be interesting to see how this completely new physics model plays out with this new controller layout. I always used the right stick for gas/brake in all GT games, so I'm excited to see how well the triggers work with the new design.

Also thanks for the last post Scaff, good news.
 
Ian - AE86
. The M3 was a typical example. I have seen and driven the new M3 and it certainly does NOT bog down on an upshift.

just a quick vid infact showing that you dont need 100000bhp to spins wheels freely. My competition car has 185bhp in a 900kg car and runs 205 wide TOYO T1R tyres.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wP54FknaHM
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yes I tottally agree the urgency is missing for both the gear shift perspective (only finished B class so far with DFP) and the engine load characteristics which arn't as good as FM2's.

Ps. nice car control, but me thinks that polished/smooth concrete like the ones used in factory floors and shopping car parks help with the wheelspin considerably!
 
I always race on Pro mode, with little to no aid.. maybe one click on the traction control to compensate for having to use a sixaxis. But once you get up to the big RWD beasties it can be an absolute nightmare using the controller, I end up shifting gears about 2k earlier to prevent wheelspin when i'm in the 'vette.
 
unv412
yes I tottally agree the urgency is missing for both the gear shift perspective (only finished B class so far with DFP) and the engine load characteristics which arn't as good as FM2's.

Ps. nice car control, but me thinks that polished/smooth concrete like the ones used in factory floors and shopping car parks help with the wheelspin considerably!
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Cheers dude but trust me that ground is far from polished concrete!! about 10 minutes after that short vid was taken i broke the gearbox in the car...that ground is ridiculously harsh on cars...probably my fault for using tyres at lower pressures because the last time i used the car it was raining. :crazy:

If you listen you can hear me clutch kicking the crap outa the car to get it on cam to smoke the wheels! :sly:
 
Niels
In Gran Turismo the car loses traction as well. But it's not crashing into the railings immediatly because of it.
So yeah the car loses traction, but not in the way it should be losing it.
And I hope this gets fixed for GT5 as well..
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Hmmm. What controller are you playing with? I would say that, when using the DFP or G25, there is a big difference in the way cars lose traction depending on tire type. The harder tires lose traction more slowly, giving more of a warning before they simply let go. They are forgiving, giving you grip, less grip, little grip, no grip. Softer tires provide more overall grip, but can lead to the situation you describe where you have grip grip grip NOTHING! However, the few times I've played the game with a regular controller I've been surprised by how many of these elements are completely lost. Also, the "assisted steering" function reduces these feedback elements quite a bit.
 
Not entirely related to what you're saying about different tyre compounds, but I've found that if you're really pushing the tyres and you get one of them on the grass, you're gone much more savagely than in previous GTs, which seems more realistic to me.

Oh, this is with a DFP (G25 just arrived today :) ) and the token Pro, no aids, no ABS setup.
 
excuse my ignorance but where/when can you turn the ABS off? its not on the pre race screen with the steer assist, race line and tyre choice option. Just curious because i may have the ABS still turned on and i hate using any of that driver aid crap so wudnt mind getting rid asap.
 
Ian - AE86
excuse my ignorance but where/when can you turn the ABS off? its not on the pre race screen with the steer assist, race line and tyre choice option. Just curious because i may have the ABS still turned on and i hate using any of that driver aid crap so wudnt mind getting rid asap.
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The in race settings, you can turn it off. It appears in Quick Tune aswell I think, but for the earlier stuff, you'll need to assign some keys to get to the in race settings menu, then just set ABS from 1 to 0 and lock away :)
 
Eggy
I agree, people like you shouldn't be playing GT5P. You're the kind of person who formulates an opinion having not really played the game and yet you give us some spiel about how the physics aren't very good?

FAIL!
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Well said...👍
 

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