Why PD? WALLS HAV CLAWS & BUMP-n-RUN vs AI

[Speed Fiend]

I created this thread in hopes that PD would recognize these minor but very irritating issues
Many of you may have already encountered the wall issue. Im aware this issue has been around for some time. If you have not encountered this issue then allow me to explain.

On some turns on certain tracks the corners of walls will seem to have an invisible pole on the track side of the barrier that when hit, scraped or bumped immediately sends your car in another direction and drastically drops your speed and forward momentum. for example Cote d'azur has a fews turns with an invisible pole or claws that prevent you from even slightly touching these unforgiving corners.

This issue is not limited just to corners there are section of parallel walls that have invisible pole or claw-like obstructions at the end of the wall placement. Some of you may have experienced this at ascari. Just after the first "S"-turn there is a small section of wall that ends at about the same point your driving line brings you closest to the wall. Light contact can be made with the wall, but if this contact is made with the end of the wall, by either the front corner or back corner, your car reacts as if it hit an invisible barrier.

A more recent issue was noticed shortly after the dreaded 1.17 update that left us tuners unable to tweak our trans. While that issue was corrected another issue is still present.

The other issue is with the bump-n-run procedure when racing AI drivers. Typically we could pull right up on the bumper and brake late and use the car to help slow down. this is kinda sloppy and dirty but it gets the job done for many less experienced drivers. Recently (since 1.17) Ive noticed that even the slightest of rear-endings performed by "you" are causing the AI car in front of you to suddenly gain about 100 hp for a brief moment but long enough to gain about a 1/2 sec. jump on you.


The problem I have with both of these issues is that neither makes a bit of sense when compared to the real world of racing. Please do something about this PD​

 

[GTPorsche]

You mean.. hitting a wall isn't suppose to make you have a crash?

...and running into other cars isn't suppose to transfer the energy from you colliding into them causing them to speed up momentarily?

Real world racing has been doing it wrong ever since the beginning.

 

[Speed Fiend]

@ GTPorshe No... I mean the effects are extremely exaggerated for the minor bumping and scraping that occurs from things like early AI braking and close quarters driving lines on tight tracks .

 

[daan]

But you're complaining that you crash when you hit the wall, and that you can't use the AI as brakes anymore.

These are silly reasons to complain.

 

[Speed Fiend]

@ daan im complaining that when AI are barely bumped they suddenly get signifigantly faster. unrealisticly faster.
and im complaining that lightly grazing a parallel wall shouldn't almost stop your forward motion. again unrealistic imo

 

[daan]

@ daan im complaining that when AI are barely bumped they suddenly get signifigantly faster. unrealisticly faster.

He'll be trying to get out of the way of the nutter behind him.

and im complaining that lightly grazing a parallel wall shouldn't almost stop your forward motion. again unrealistic imo

I don't notice that, but then I try to avoid hitting walls. The only place I've noticed the wall stopping you and spinning you unrealistically is at places that you get a benefit from hitting said wall like on the exit of Forest's Elbow at Bathurst.

 

[rixtar]

There were two points at the recent expert level seasonal at Cote d' Azur where just touching the wall could spin the car around (both down near the water). I've for some time found it irritating that losing control on any track (ie trying too hard, everyone does it now and then haha) and sliding into a wall would often unrealistically spin the car in the opposite direction.

With regards to the instant power boost the AI gets when bumped in the rear, I reckon it's better than the slowdown and fade that your car used to get as a time penalty for ramming the AI. That's why I think they made this change, it's a penalty. Makes the racing harder in my opinion. It's just another thing to take into account when trying to win.

 

[Wide Boy]

@ daan im complaining that when AI are barely bumped they suddenly get signifigantly faster. unrealisticly faster.
and im complaining that lightly grazing a parallel wall shouldn't almost stop your forward motion. again unrealistic imo

Easy solution to both is don't hit them, that said if the AI suddenly gets faster perhaps the best way to race them is to keep bumping them so they are not so unrealistically slow.

 

[R5]

There were two points at the recent expert level seasonal at Cote d' Azur where just touching the wall could spin the car around (both down near the water). I've for some time found it irritating that losing control on any track (ie trying too hard, everyone does it now and then haha) and sliding into a wall would often unrealistically spin the car in the opposite direction.

With regards to the instant power boost the AI gets when bumped in the rear, I reckon it's better than the slowdown and fade that your car used to get as a time penalty for ramming the AI. That's why I think they made this change, it's a penalty. Makes the racing harder in my opinion. It's just another thing to take into account when trying to win.

I know the 2 places, the exit to the chicane and the exit to the swimming pool area.

Both are easy to avoid by slowing down just a little.

 

[Dylan]

at cote d azur, at the exit of the chicane that leads into the second to last corner, if you go wide, and hit the barrier on the right just right, ther is a little bit of invisible wall sticking out and you car will come to a dead stop. I also noticed this at brands hatch, if you clip the end of the pit road wall just right as your heading into turn 1, an invisible wall will cause you trouble. (I think I actually flipped a car because it grabbed the side of my car.)

 

[JKgo]

nutter

.....

 

[Speed Fiend]

well apparently some people here are perfect drivers and never make judgment errors.

 

[Speed Fiend]

the only reason that I mentioned the effects of bumping the back of AI was to illustrate the drastic difference between how AI cars once performed compared with how they currently perform when contact is made. neither way is ideal. Slamming into the back of cars to stop is not effective nor is it my preferred m.o. So thanks to the perfect drivers for the "slow down" and "use your brakes" advice, but that's not the issue.

And as for walls. Where is the consistency? why does one wall stop u and another barely effect u? I have noticed some correlation with invisible walls in advantageous locations, but some are just in arbitrary locations where there are no advantages to be had.

 

[R5]

well apparently some people here are perfect drivers and never make judgment errors.

Not saying we don't, we're saying that we can at least keep the car on the track.

 

[Lewis_Hamilton_]

well apparently some people here are perfect drivers and never make judgment errors.

Ignore them.

I know what you mean and it has happened to me a lot, and it doesn't matter if you're a perfect driver, accidents and incidents will happen when two or more people are fighting for the same piece of tarmac.
My most recent incidents like this have been on both Grand Valley Speedway + East, though I've had it happen at other tracks and to other racers in the room too. Last time it happened I was making a pass on somebody on the inside of turn 1 at GVS, the guy on the outside began to get sideways and tagged me, causing me to go on to the grass on the right hand side of the straight - the wall here is completely flat with no gaps or barriers. As I was turning to get back on track, I grazed the wall with the tip of my wing mirror and *crunch*, the whole car came to an instant halt and most of my car was damaged. The same happened to someone else further along the track only this time their very minor contact with the wall in a similar fashion to my accident, caused their car to catch air spinning right into some traffic.

 

[Speed Fiend]

@ legacymachine. I never said nor implied that I have trouble staying on track. Now your just trolling. Think of something constructive or at least logical to say before typing please or don't bother. thanks

 

[Speed Fiend]

thanks Lewis Hamilton, dylanlikes and rixtar for your constructive responses.

 

[Demoncleaner]

👍

:censored:I sure wish someone would pull a hay bale or two back JUST a tad towards the end of Goodwood's Hill Climb.

I know: hay is naturally grabby.

 

[twitcher]

@Speed Fiend, I've had this happen to me a lot as well.

Exiting the Swimming Pool complex on Cote, if you BRUSH (emphasis for those who chose to interpret this topic as a discussion of 🤬 driving , smh) the right wall at the wrong spot, you basically die.

Another spot I have this happen very frequently is on SSR5. The second right hander after the hairpin. As you track out to the LHS of the track on exit, there is a spot on the wall, again, if touched just right (or wrong...), you experience a catastrophic crash.

To be absolutely clear to the perfect drivers out there, when this occurs, I am not trying to bounce the car off the wall. I am not pushing way beyond the limit and slamming into the wall.

What I am doing, is pushing to as close to the limit as I can. On a street course, that often means driving within mere inches, if not less, to the walls. If I place my car near the wall, and then hit an invisible object which causes deceleration from over 100mph to 0 in a fraction of a second, something is not right.

All that said, yes, now that I know those two spots are trouble areas, I make extra effort to give myself more margin. At the very least, this thread could be used to identify more of these spots. Or we could just let the "pros" carry on with their "Just be pro like me" talk...smh.



Another bit of insight I have on this matter comes from drifting. We're always trying to do wall rides and outside lines...and most drifters goimgm back to GT5 came to the conclusion that the walls had a lot of weird characteristics to them.

One test I have done myself is to check the "hit box" of certain cars - specifically, off the rear bumper and rear corners. I drift using bonnet view, so it's tough to gauge where the back of the car is sometimes. What I do is switch to 3rd person, place the car as close to a wall as I can, and then see what things look like from the bonnet.

When doing these test, I often found that I could not get the rear of the car to actually touch the wall. Instead, it would "bump" the wall with still a few inches of empty space between the bumper and the wall. It varies from car to car, some were in the 1-2 inch range...others more like 4 and up, as high as about 6 inches for a few cars.

So, perhaps it's the extra invisible hit box of the car which is hitting the wall, as opposed to hitting an invisible wall?

 

[Dolph Drago]

This happened to one of the other racers earlier in the year in a league I run in. The guardrail at the entrance to turn 1 of the Nordschleife portion of the Nurburgring is a hot spot for getting stopped dead in your tracks.

 

[Speed Fiend]

twitcher. very well said and thank you. Dolph. great example. thank you

Ive often wondered myself if this is the wall or car that is larger than the image on screen is showing.

I have noticed on some replays, while trying to capture a good picture of contact between cars, that cars will react as if contact is made but not actual contact can be seen between cars when viewed from a proper angle with camera

its as if the cars are actually larger than they appear in some spots. (LOL that should be the disclaimer on the side mirror in GT)

 

[SVPSkins]

I noticed for the first only last week, in the pro seasonal. If you bump ANY of the cars (even if you dont mean to) and you stay behind them, they do up there pace for short time, then slow down again.

 

[N0t_L3fty]

The minions have NO2, the rules only state you can't have it. We already know the minions can use cars, & with more punch than we are allowed to use. Bump one, they punch the laughing gas, & check out. Every once in a while they wipe out fellow minions in their fits of rage. Hang tight to the inside at the end of the front straight, avoid the the pile.
Not sure how to avoid the wall claws other then stay off the walls, or plant the minion on the wall side, & let them get hooked. Worst place is the exit from the pit on Ascari. I have been hammered by minions spun side ways there, too many times to count. Wall looks smooth, hooks them & spins them any way...

 

[Tired Tyres]

This happened to one of the other racers earlier in the year in a league I run in. The guardrail at the entrance to turn 1 of the Nordschleife portion of the Nurburgring is a hot spot for getting stopped dead in your tracks.

I see that a lot when B-spec does the 24 minutes of the Nurburgring. It catches out both B-Spec and the other AI a lot.

 

[Robbks]

This happened to one of the other racers earlier in the year in a league I run in. The guardrail at the entrance to turn 1 of the Nordschleife portion of the Nurburgring is a hot spot for getting stopped dead in your tracks.

do you have a roof/ bonnet view of that?

I've never used the bumper cam as I've always found it never portrays the width of the car properly or consistently

 

[Dolph Drago]

do you have a roof/ bonnet view of that?

I've never used the bumper cam as I've always found it never portrays the width of the car properly or consistently

I do not. The guy who got taken out by the guardrail was the one who posted the video.

 

[yikadaemu]

twitcher. very well said and thank you. Dolph. great example. thank you

Ive often wondered myself if this is the wall or car that is larger than the image on screen is showing.

I have noticed on some replays, while trying to capture a good picture of contact between cars, that cars will react as if contact is made but not actual contact can be seen between cars when viewed from a proper angle with camera

its as if the cars are actually larger than they appear in some spots. (LOL that should be the disclaimer on the side mirror in GT)

Being shown in bumper mode, where the displays are in the center of the car, means the sides do protrude out and it looks like the driver plowed the right front fender into the guard rail before the end.

 

[Speed Fiend]

thanks for all the feedback fellow racers.

 

[Kryption]

Could be extra polygons that no one ever took the time to remove, and re-code. I personally find it hilarious even if it happens to me. I call it the GT ghost, you never know when it's going to happen, and when it does. It's a horrifying and shocking experience. Then you realise if this were to happen irl, it would mean we are in the matrix and there's a glitch. All joking aside though. If you get 2 cars right next to eachother, and observe the gap. There's quite a bit of filler in between the cars, even though they're both "mirrors deep" . I think some cars might be "bigger" than the visible graphic on the screen.

 

[Ameer67]

Could be extra polygons that no one ever took the time to remove, and re-code. I personally find it hilarious even if it happens to me. I call it the GT ghost, you never know when it's going to happen, and when it does. It's a horrifying and shocking experience. Then you realise if this were to happen irl, it would mean we are in the matrix and there's a glitch. All joking aside though. If you get 2 cars right next to eachother, and observe the gap. There's quite a bit of filler in between the cars, even though they're both "mirrors deep" . I think some cars might be "bigger" than the visible graphic on the screen.

The collision body is larger then the actual car. One some cars, it isn't too bad. Others... eh, they aren't great.

​