Why Qualifying could make a comeback.. And why it hasn't yet.

[TurismoTalker]

I wanted to open another constructive discussion, to share thoughts on a topic that in my opinion could really add to the competitiveness of the single-player experience: Qualifying Sessions, like we had in past Gran Turismo titles (very simplified, but efficient).
It’s truly hard to understand why they disappeared, and I think this is a topic that deserves at least some attention.
We need to understand whether there would actually be issues with SOPHY or the basic AI during qualifying, or if this was simply an oversight by the team (especially considering how much focus they’ve placed on competitive racing in recent years).

I’d really like to hear what the community thinks:

-- How would you feel about implementing qualifying sessions in GT7?
-- Could it add value to single races, custom races, and championships?
-- How could it work with Sophy?

I don’t think this would be a utopian idea or an unrealistic addition, since qualifying is a key dynamic in most real-world racing, and it was also present in previous Gran Turismo games.
If you believe such an addition would have little impact or would be irrelevant, I’d be curious to understand the reasons, so we could perhaps connect them to PD’s current design choices.

 

[bduddy]

Qualifying for the kind of races and AI the game focuses on now makes zero sense. If the game was focused around the chili races, with their close competition and superior AI, it would (there's even one where you start 1st!) but PD has chosen not to go in that direction.

 

[Tired Tyres]

I would like it added to create race mode. A proper session with all the cars on track setting times that set the grid like in GT4. It would make create race mode perfect on PS5 so you've got Sophy AI to race against

 

[TurismoTalker]

the kind of races

I think that in restricted races or in custom races against sophy it can be used in the best way, especially in category races, even though sophy can handle any car well if set up correctly.

A proper session with all the cars on track setting times that set the grid like in GT4.

Yes exactly without asking too much. Simply a session of 2\3 laps or a maximum of 5\10 minutes where the cars do the fast lap. With fuel and tires that are consumed in the session. They would certainly enrich the most difficult races, but especially the races against Sophy.

 

[ShiftingGears]

If they had qualifying then they'd need AI that would be competitive without starting a mile in front of you, and they don't really have an interest in doing that

 

[TheWeapon874]

I think it would be a great addition to daily races too. One lap qualy before the race....

 

[wagnerFAM98]

It's actually easy to understand why they don't implement qualifying sessions. It's because of the annoying chase the rabbit style 95% of the single player career races get. If you don't know what it means, the whole point is actually to make you pass every car within the race length - you can clearly notice this intention by the atrocious distance cars start from each other in a lot of these races. Now you can see why starting in first would totally kill the experience PD wants you to have.

Now, why does PD insist with this crappy chase the rabbit implementation? That's a whole different story.

 

[Meythia]

Qualifying is an illusion, you know you gonna be 1st in a "competitive" car and could save that 1-2 minutes by having a starting position selector - that for custom races already is in the game.

 

[TurismoTalker]

they'd need AI that would be competitive without starting a mile in front of you

Custom races with Sophy, if you know how to set them up, are incredible and really challenging. I'm an A-S driver, and if I put myself in equal conditions with Sophy given a boost, I really struggle to win. It all depends on my ability to create conditions that make the race competitive. Of course, standard single-player races are easy for me or for others.. it would be enough to just choose a less powerful car, like Sophy.

It's because of the annoying chase the rabbit style 95% of the single player career races get.

I totally understand what you're saying, but with Sophy I can assure you it’s a completely different experience. If you set up Sophy in a way that it can beat you, trust me.. it will. I do agree that many single-player races just have you chasing the opponent, but it would be enough to simply choose a less powerful car to make up for PD’s inability to give us proper limits. The game is easy, but we have the ability to make it more challenging in a positive way with custom races.

Qualifying is an illusion, you know you gonna be 1st in a "competitive" car and could save that 1-2 minutes by having a starting position selector - that for custom races already is in the game.

Sorry, but that’s a pointless answer. These are two different things, as you said. If you don’t like the idea of implementing qualifying, explain it like others have done; but comparing and equating two different things is just silly. Qualifying lets you EARN your spot on the grid in a few minutes\laps, while being able to manually choose your starting position skips the whole dynamic and all the effort behind it. Of course they added that option so they wouldn’t have to implement proper qualifying in the game, but it’s not an "illusion".

 

[Voodoovaj]

Sorry, but that’s a pointless answer. These are two different things, as you said. If you don’t like the idea of implementing qualifying, explain it like others have done; but comparing and equating two different things is just silly. Qualifying lets you EARN your spot on the grid in a few minutes\laps, while being able to manually choose your starting position skips the whole dynamic and all the effort behind it. Of course they added that option so they wouldn’t have to implement proper qualifying in the game, but it’s not an "illusion".

Well, @Meythia makes a good point in simply allowing us to choose a starting position, which reduces the payout. Qualifying is indeed an illusion when it comes to the AI. People want it simply because the current single player AI is a pain.

Qualifying supports the illusion that you are starting the race (single player of course) in a position on merit, but it opens the door of questions like "how good is the AI?" what level are you qualifying against? Choosing the starting position would be better. Not to mention, it is something that gets skipped over in racing games all the time. I HATE qualifying in single player games. A start position slider solves everyone's problem.

And, remember, very few people have tried Sophy in a way that (we hope) will be implement in the next game. Everyone will want a slider when (or if) that becomes the new single player 🤣

 

[Meythia]

Sorry, but that’s a pointless answer. These are two different things, as you said. If you don’t like the idea of implementing qualifying, explain it like others have done; but comparing and equating two different things is just silly. Qualifying lets you EARN your spot on the grid in a few minutes\laps, while being able to manually choose your starting position skips the whole dynamic and all the effort behind it. Of course they added that option so they wouldn’t have to implement proper qualifying in the game, but it’s not an "illusion".

Qualifying as in "earning" your position is an illusion.
I say this because with every competitive car as by the game rules, you inevitable will end up on P1.
And a car that does not put you on P1 after qualifying will also not win the race.
You are condensing the whole racing event into a single lap.

If you want to "earn" your position, you would have to use a car that is much weaker than any AI car, depending on the race between 40PP to 60PP below its limit or suggestion.
But even then you would end up on P1, because that is how "strong" the AI is created to be: allowing the player to win a race from far behind -> if you start on P1, there is no racing left anymore and it is nothing but a glorified time trial, or a mission "The Pass".

 

[notarjy]

One aspect I enjoy of forza motorsport 23 is the practice session with AI traffic before a single player race event. It gives a real race weekend feel to doing events and I like being able to get a feel for the car/track combo and get a sense of how competitive my current tune is before the race itself. There is also the grid setting of course but I find this is not what makes the feature great to me, so the actual qualifying/setting the grid component I can take or leave.

I know with how the single player races in GT7 are generally more like passing challenges this probably can't be implemented in the same way but in general I do like the idea of having some sort of timed session before the main race. I think with Sophy AI it would be interesting because it could both give the player a sense of their competitiveness before the race but also perhaps let Sophy adjust to the player to give the best possible race experience.

 

[TurismoTalker]

because that is how "strong" the AI is created to be

So, if you mean only the basic AI, I totally agree with you, in fact the slowness of them should be completely reviewed. Actually I have to correct myself, the races with basic AI are created to make you win, giving the first of the cpu 20\30 seconds of difference compared to us (and it's ridiculous).
Now however I advise you to do a race against Sophy with: same stock car for all 20 including you, weak turbo, real slipstream.

That was made by @MGR on another thread, and can describe how Sophy can be really competitive. Now I don't want to talk about the other thread, which I recommend you go and visit, but the implementation of qualifications would be useful especially in races on par with Sophy. Also if they could make small improvements to the basic AI in the most famous 30 minute races (600pp,700pp,800pp), and lower the pp limit they could be useful there too.

let Sophy adjust to the player to give the best possible race experience.

Exactly, it's also right to get familiar with the car and the track... and as we can see, Sophy knows how to adapt based on the selected turbo, slipstream, tyres etc.

I HATE qualifying in single player games.

I respect your point of view, even if I don't agree with it. Qualifying could be (even if in a few races) a way to approach the event with weaker cars just for the sake of the challenge, or for a test with opponents. Or maybe for players who are not very skilled to "earn" some positions on the grid instead of simply selecting it (among other things anyone would always put themselves last to earn more, and probably no one first, I can’t imagine that 😂). In the future, I would add a random grid option so that all starting positions get used and the faster cars are spread out.