Why smoke from front tires in FR layout?

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precisionlocke`

18
Hey, guys. Long time, no see. :) My internet was down for a good month, but it's back up now.

Anyway, I remember reading a post that said something about being able to go at higher speeds if all four tires are exceeding maximum traction (it stated "four wheel drift"?).

What I'm wondering is if that's true. I don't believe it is, because why would you want smoke from the front tires if they're not delivering power? It makes sense for 4WD... but FR/MR?

Also, I thought a four wheel drift was simply having all four tires slip... smoke or not. :)

Edit: Hoping to make it more clear, I mean for speed drifting. Ex: FR/MR layout. If there is smoke coming from your front tires and your rear tires (exceeding traction), is that the fastest way around a corner?... as opposed to having only your rear tires exceed traction at the least. I don't think it is, but am hoping to hear your responses.
 
uhh...im gonna take a wild guess...but uhh, im guessing the question has to do with the front tires of a FR/MR emitting smoke in a drift, and if this makes you go faster or not / if this is what a 4 wheel drift, im not totally sure what ur asking either, but hey i tried
 
Oi..Research shows that when all four tires are at their maximum grip. Utilizing all this grip means that you can exit a corner faster.. bla bla bla..end of story.
 
I'm gonna answer the name of your thread. the reason why the front tires don't smoke in a FR/MR drift, is because the front tires are going along the direction of the road instead of dragging along and causing exsessive friction and making smoke. if the rear wheels could steer, like the front wheels, the rear tires wouldn't smoke either.





rock. :)
 
I'm gonna answer the name of your thread. the reason why the front tires don't smoke in a FR/MR drift, is because the front tires are going along the direction of the road instead of dragging along and causing exsessive friction and making smoke. if the rear wheels could steer, like the front wheels, the rear tires wouldn't smoke either.
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Mine smoke... When you gonna be ungrounded?
 
I don't know. the comp at school won't let me go to GTP, so I will be off for a little bit and may pop up every now and then. this is just a rare occasion.



rock. :)
 
I think I understand what hes saying. So let me give my spin on this. When exhibition drifting, If your angle is kinda high on FR/MR, the front tires will smoke. Honestly its that simple. Speed helps u get that angle needed for front tire smoke.

Now a "Four wheel drift" is something completely different. In a Four wheel drift you see no smoke. Its actually a form of driving used to increase speed on turns for better lap times. It uses no countersteer, and causes a very small slip angle that makes the car look like its drifting ever so slightly but in actuality all 4 tires have maximum grip. At least this is what I am told. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

What I don't understand is why is it called a four wheel drift, when your not losing any traction :P
 
Originally posted by lifestream
Now a "Four wheel drift" is something completely different. In a Four wheel drift you see no smoke. Its actually a form of driving used to increase speed on turns for better lap times. It uses no countersteer, and causes a very small slip angle that makes the car look like its drifting ever so slightly but in actuality all 4 tires have maximum grip. At least this is what I am told. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
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That is indeed four wheel drifting, but it's not the only four wheel drifting. As precisionlocke`suspects, four wheel drifting is simply loss of traction on all four tires. The form of drifting you're describing is the fastest method and can in some cases be faster than grip. To answer precisionlocke's question, the reason it allows you to go faster is because it allows you to increase your exit speed at the sacrifice of entry speed. Overall, it's not faster, but it can give you an advantage in certain situations, similar to taking a late apex. You are accelerating out of the corner before you even leave it, rather than fighting the centrifugal force of grip racing. The act of attaining an advantage in slip angle does not necessarily result in a loss of traction. As the difference in speeds between the tire and the road increases, the traction decreases, but it's possible to obtain slight slip angles without causing a noticable decrease in traction.
 
Originally posted by precisionlocke`


If there is smoke coming from your front tires and your rear tires (exceeding traction), is that the fastest way around a corner?... as opposed to having only your rear tires exceed traction at the least. I don't think it is, but am hoping to hear your responses.
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I don't think any one really answered this particular question yet. but really if you see smoke you are probably not going as fast as you can, except under certain situations with certain cars (like cars that understeer a lot). But comparing just "rear" smoke to "front and rear" smoke, well I don't really know and it doesn't really matter all that much since neither methods are all that fast. But if you are comparing “4 wheel smoke” to grip well then grip is a lot faster. And so it true 4wheel drifting… the kind that was explained by Lifestream.
 
Originally posted by pergatory
That is indeed four wheel drifting, but it's not the only four wheel drifting. As precisionlocke`suspects, four wheel drifting is simply loss of traction on all four tires. The form of drifting you're describing is the fastest method and can in some cases be faster than grip. To answer precisionlocke's question, the reason it allows you to go faster is because it allows you to increase your exit speed at the sacrifice of entry speed. Overall, it's not faster, but it can give you an advantage in certain situations, similar to taking a late apex. You are accelerating out of the corner before you even leave it, rather than fighting the centrifugal force of grip racing. The act of attaining an advantage in slip angle does not necessarily result in a loss of traction. As the difference in speeds between the tire and the road increases, the traction decreases, but it's possible to obtain slight slip angles without causing a noticable decrease in traction.
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That is correct, and very well put, I might add. Keepin' it real in the North West. ;)
 
Originally posted by lifestream
I think I understand what hes saying. So let me give my spin on this. When exhibition drifting, If your angle is kinda high on FR/MR, the front tires will smoke. Honestly its that simple. Speed helps u get that angle needed for front tire smoke.

Now a "Four wheel drift" is something completely different. In a Four wheel drift you see no smoke. Its actually a form of driving used to increase speed on turns for better lap times. It uses no countersteer, and causes a very small slip angle that makes the car look like its drifting ever so slightly but in actuality all 4 tires have maximum grip. At least this is what I am told. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

What I don't understand is why is it called a four wheel drift, when your not losing any traction :P
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i agree with this guy...:lol:
 
in as much as I understand my techniques when I drift, I think when I am sliding mostly sideways, I am 2 wheel drifting, because I let the front tires maintain their grip and use them alone to steer the car, but when I four wheel drift, the car doesnt really go sideways as much , it kinda spiders along a line, because I am using the throttle AND the steering to hold the car on a certain line. When I enter the corner, I'll touch the brakes lightly to transfer the weight of the car forward, which causes the front tires to lose their grip slightly, and the car corners faster when I do it right. Not sure if thats a four wheel drift or not, but its fun, and alot cooler looking than just sliding sideways before the corner and exiting straight. :)
 
Originally posted by nice shirt
My front tires smoke during FR drifts.
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Your front tires smoke, because you are not countersteering enough. When you countersteer, the front wheels maintain their grip, so they don't produce any smoke. When you don't countersteer, the front wheels are sliding, just like the rear, so they produce smoke. ;)
 
But you are wrong. I could be countersteering, full lock, tires smoking. Im countersteering and the fronts are smoking. What you said isnt true.
 
Who really cares of the tires are smoking or not?

i noticed my fronts smoke most often on Apricot Hill when I combine turns 1 & 2 into 1 continuous drift.
 
Originally posted by nice shirt
But you are wrong. I could be countersteering, full lock, tires smoking. Im countersteering and the fronts are smoking. What you said isnt true.
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If you are at full lock, your front tires should not be smoking. I suggest you go play GT3 right now, because you are mistaken. I mean I just explained exactly why the tires smoke and do not smoke. It's not a debate, they are facts. If you want, I can upload a vid to prove it. ;)
 
It's not the position of the wheels like full counter, etc. It's where the wheels are with the track. If your wheels are aligned with the road, they will not smoke.
 
Originally posted by silviadrifter
If you are at full lock, your front tires should not be smoking. I suggest you go play GT3 right now, because you are mistaken. I mean I just explained exactly why the tires smoke and do not smoke. It's not a debate, they are facts. If you want, I can upload a vid to prove it. ;)
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I just watched a replay of one of my drift vids. The tires are full lock and smoking. How is what you are saying a "fact" if my videos show otherwise?

Ok, look at it this way. If the car is sliding at 90 degrees to the road, do you think the front tires would smoke if they were turned completely to the right on a left hand turn? Try this out on Apricot Hill turns 1 & 2.
 
Originally posted by battle_stage
It's not the position of the wheels like full counter, etc. It's where the wheels are with the track. If your wheels are aligned with the road, they will not smoke.
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Exactly, thank you. I think people are misunderstanding, the smoke from the front tires is only an indicator, it doesn't mean anything about anything except that your front tires have lost traction. If you do this for an entire drift, that's a four-wheel drift. If you don't do it at all, that's a two-wheel drift. If you get some smoke but not the whole drift, then you are just sloppy, which is practically unavoidable without a steering wheel. The only exception is if you lock up your front wheels with brakes, which requires no ABS.
 
Originally posted by pergatory
Exactly, thank you. I think people are misunderstanding, the smoke from the front tires is only an indicator, it doesn't mean anything about anything except that your front tires have lost traction. If you do this for an entire drift, that's a four-wheel drift. If you don't do it at all, that's a two-wheel drift. If you get some smoke but not the whole drift, then you are just sloppy, which is practically unavoidable without a steering wheel. The only exception is if you lock up your front wheels with brakes, which requires no ABS.
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Thank you, this is a good addition to the information I gave here:

Your front tires smoke, because you are not countersteering enough. When you countersteer, the front wheels maintain their grip, so they don't produce any smoke. When you don't countersteer, the front wheels are sliding, just like the rear, so they produce smoke.
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;)
 

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