Will General Motors declare bankruptcy?

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It does have good handling, just if you get on it around the corners you'll hang the ass out.
 
BlazinXtreme
It does have good handling, just if you get on it around the corners you'll hang the ass out.
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Yep, a car can have "good" handling. But still require the driver to have SKILL to drive well. The fastest cars are like that. Shoot, the Z06 isn't quite as surefooted as the viper, but it's still FASTER.
 
Wolfe2x7
The CTS-V's handling has been described by the press as excellent, yet nervous. The interior, while good, is lacking in solidity and material usage compared to its foreign rivals, and the transmission is balky. The E46 M3, which is older and about the same price, has a more refined ride yet offers the same handling performance, has a nicer interior and more supportive seats, and a smoother transmission.

Poof. I just beat the CTS-V with a car on a 7-year-old chassis. And don't refer me to your "anything other than an M3 or S4" comment at the top of the page. As if Cadillac's "V" badge doesn't equate to BMW's M, or Audi's S/RS, or Mercedes' AMG, etc. etc. :rolleyes:
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Has any magazine/TVshow done a head-to-head with the CTS-V and these German cars? I havent seen any so far over here in Europe, but I havent been in the U.S. for about 2 1/2 months, so maybe I missed one?
I'll believe that maybe they are better when I see a true head-to-head, not just a drive in the CTS-V with a mental comparison
And I guarantee you the CTS-V will beat an M3 in all performance tests
The only chance of them saying the CTS-V is worse? interior quality, which is fine, but also a matter of pure taste, as well, whereas performance figures don't lie. (assuming nobody's childish enough to sandbag, which I don't think they are)
 
CTS-V interior

04.cadillac.ctsspecv.int.500.jpg


BMW M3 interior

1C2B0299.JPG



I would say they are comparable, of course the BMW's will be a bit nicer...but it should be because it cost more.
 
BlazinXtreme
CTS-V interior


BMW M3 interior


I would say they are comparable, of course the BMW's will be a bit nicer...but it should be because it cost more.
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say what?

BMW MSRP from thier own webpage

vs cadillac MSRP from thier own website.

the few head to heads ive seden love the cadiallcas power but agree the BMW is more balanced; nuff power, nuff brakes, nuff suspension. the cadillac comes over as not quite as polished as the germans, but has won one or two comparos.

but then again, we are comparing near similarly sized cars one with an engine nearly twice the others. that the cadillac fails to shine is testament to how well the germans have done on thier 7 year old chassis
 
Disturbed07
Has any magazine/TVshow done a head-to-head with the CTS-V and these German cars? I havent seen any so far over here in Europe, but I havent been in the U.S. for about 2 1/2 months, so maybe I missed one?
I'll believe that maybe they are better when I see a true head-to-head, not just a drive in the CTS-V with a mental comparison
And I guarantee you the CTS-V will beat an M3 in all performance tests
The only chance of them saying the CTS-V is worse? interior quality, which is fine, but also a matter of pure taste, as well, whereas performance figures don't lie. (assuming nobody's childish enough to sandbag, which I don't think they are)
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I found this article when making the reply above. A direct comparison between the CTS-V, E46 M3, and S4.

As for your CTS-V-beating-an-M3 guarantee...

M3 SMG
0-60 mph: 5.0 sec
0-100 mph: 12.0 sec
Quartermile: 13.5@105.8
Top Speed: 155 mph (limited)
Braking from 60 mph: 112 ft.
Braking from 80 mph: 197 ft.
Skidpad: .87 g
Slalom: 68.3 mph

CTS-V
0-60 mph: 5.0 sec
0-100 mph: 11.4 sec
Quartermile: 13.4@109.0
Top Speed: 163 mph
Braking from 60 mph: 115 ft.
Braking from 80 mph: 202 ft.
Skidpad: .87 g
Slalom: 66.0 mph

(taken from Road&Track)

Looks pretty close to me...the only differences are that the BMW handles and brakes a little better, and the Caddy is faster at higher speeds.
 
People like to overlook the M3? What are you kidding me? People think they are gods and nothing can touch them, and as we just saw a Caddy can be just as good as the German engineered car.

As for the price, I was wrong, I was thinking the M3 was more.
 
I remember a R&T comparison back in 02, between the brand new Z06 and M3. In that comparison, even though the Z06 was .8 faster in the 1/4 mi, stopped from 100 about 10-15 ft sooner, and was faster through the slalom while holding more G's on the skidpad, they declared the M3 the "winner". Why? "Because it has 4 proper seats and by far the largest luggage capacity, and can easily keep up either on the twisties or in a straight line" also saying that you would need radar timing gear to tell the difference. While the 4 seats and luggage capacity is nice, to say that I will need radar timing gear to realize that I'm going 9 miles per hour faster, and almost a full second in front? I don't think BMW can ever say people underrate their cars, or overlook them
 
BlazinXtreme
People like to overlook the M3? What are you kidding me? People think they are gods and nothing can touch them, and as we just saw a Caddy can be just as good as the German engineered car.

As for the price, I was wrong, I was thinking the M3 was more.
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Wouldnt it be a technically closer comparison be of the cts-v versus a audi RS4? The power output is similiar and the space between production is closer.
 
Has GM released any press statements about how they plan to turn the company around? I know that Mitsubishi decided to develop a range of smaller vehicles to try and make a profit.
 
Poverty
Has GM released any press statements about how they plan to turn the company around? I know that Mitsubishi decided to develop a range of smaller vehicles to try and make a profit.
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Not from what I've seen -- but then again I haven't been paying any attention to this industry. My eyes have been glued to gold/silver/platinum charts (and more recently oil/natural gas)...

According to their most recent SEC filing, their bonds have been downgraded -- yet again.

GM should spin off GMAC assets into another publicly traded company.
The proceeds of which can be used to offset some of its current financial obligations.
 
VIPFREAK
:lol: :scared: Kinda disturbing you'd rather watch a graph instead of talk/see great cars like a Viper. :D
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:lol: Yeah I know. But I have a LOT riding on these commodity prices. If I fall asleep at the wheel [no pun intended], I could get hurt! :sick: :D :p

:dopey:
 
BlazinXtreme
People like to overlook the M3? What are you kidding me? People think they are gods and nothing can touch them, and as we just saw a Caddy can be just as good as the German engineered car.

As for the price, I was wrong, I was thinking the M3 was more.
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au contraire sir
a small percentage of the population thinks they are the be all and end all where it comes to cars. unfortunately, that percentage of the population is a very vocal and very ignorant one when it comes to cars. all talk, no walk.

but there is another faction of the population, the pushrod fanatics, who think a vette will hand an M3 its ass on any track on any day. when the results are shown to be a lot closer than they thought instead of giving props to a well tuned machine they denigrate it calling it an over priced wanna be sports car. or words to that effect..

goes both ways.

the cognoscenti, on the other hand, knows a vette will beat an M3 pretty much all day. but it will be closer than most people think.
 
So it comes down to personal preferance, both cars are virtually the same...so its whatever one you think looks better.
 
wait a minute... are we now comparing a Vette to an M3? I can see a CTS-V against an M3, but a vette, besides being a 2-seat sports car (different class) is far superior in performance, unless you take on C5 Non-Z06 against it... but then it's cheaper

MrktMKR - we're discussing cars because people were talking about GM making/not making any good cars... hence the current debate
 
I have to agree with disturbed. Its tasteless to compare a thorogh bred sports car to a hopped up saloon/coupe. I know that there is a big price difference in cars but if you keep it purely technical in the fact that equivelant porsches and BMW's could be priced similiarily to the vette, yet arent because the manufacturer gets away with it due to the value of their name brand, and because its more upscale in the fact that it has alot more technical and creature comfort goodies.

So we should compare vettes to m6's and porsches of similair power output.
 
The Vette is still better then all of them though, you get more preformance for smaller price tag...how could one not love 505hp for 67 grand? Now GM just needs to boost the power of some other models i.e. Cobalt SS/ Ion Redline (about 240) and the Soltice/Sky (260) and they will sell those things like hot cakes to young guys like me looking for a speed fix.
 
BlazinXtreme
The Vette is still better then all of them though, you get more preformance for smaller price tag...how could one not love 505hp for 67 grand? Now GM just needs to boost the power of some other models i.e. Cobalt SS/ Ion Redline (about 240) and the Soltice/Sky (260) and they will sell those things like hot cakes to young guys like me looking for a speed fix.
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240 hp in a FF sounds like a bad idea to me. I'd like to test drive an Eclipse with the 270hp and see how that handles.

But you're quite right. The Vette flat out owns every other car under 90K that I can think of. It's ONLY challenge is that it doesn't have the fit and finish to put it into Porsche level of "status" but that's not the point. The point is it's has super car perfomance for luxury sedan price.
 
The Stage kits for the Cobalt SS/ Ion Redline will put it up to 240ish hp. You get new motor mounts which the car desperatly needs, pulley's, and a computer reflash...along with some other stuff I can't remember. But the trans will take it and so will the tires and brakes, so you're good to go as long as you know how to drive.
 
BlazinXtreme
The Stage kits for the Cobalt SS/ Ion Redline will put it up to 240ish hp. You get new motor mounts which the car desperatly needs, pulley's, and a computer reflash...along with some other stuff I can't remember. But the trans will take it and so will the tires and brakes, so you're good to go as long as you know how to drive.
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I'm just not big on a lot of power in a FF. Like the SRT4. Just not me. I feel if you're going to have that much power, then it needs to be FR/AWD. However, underpowered FF's are a LOT of fun to drive. :)
 
BlazinXtreme
CTS-V interior

04.cadillac.ctsspecv.int.500.jpg
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How much does this car cost?

- No wonder european press give US cars such a hard time about their interiors, this interior looks like it came out of a £12k Vauxhall Astra - not a 'premium' sports saloon. It's got more cheap plastic than Michael Jackson's face!
 
I'm just not big on a lot of power in a FF. Like the SRT4. Just not me. I feel if you're going to have that much power, then it needs to be FR/AWD. However, underpowered FF's are a LOT of fun to drive.
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The Cobalt/Ion will be AWD in 2008.

How much does this car cost?

- No wonder european press give US cars such a hard time about their interiors, this interior looks like it came out of a £12k Vauxhall Astra - not a 'premium' sports saloon. It's got more cheap plastic than Michael Jackson's face!
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$51,000 and I see a bunch of leather, but plastic is just easier to use. There is also hard rubber stuff for the dash. But I would rather have a cheaper interior and a better car outside.
 
Dang! More bad news:

General Motors' European Stock Falls as Kerkorian Pares Holding

"Kerkorian is betting the stock is going lower and may not recover for some time,'' said Eugene Jennings, a business professor emeritus at Michigan State University. "He's probably very smart to minimize his losses in the face of a board of directors that doesn't know how to manage a crisis.''

I'm really getting tired of seeing stuff like this. All we can do is hope for the best, I guess...
 
GM's stock went below 20 bucks a share, guess what I'm buying all I can because you can't loose on GM. It will go back up, and when it does I'll be able to buy my Caddy with it's "cheap" interior.
 
BlazinXtreme
The Cobalt/Ion will be AWD in 2008.
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Does that include the SS Supercharged and ION Redline models as well? :drool: :)

Joey
GM's stock went below 20 bucks a share, guess what I'm buying all I can because you can't loose on GM. It will go back up, and when it does I'll be able to buy my Caddy with it's "cheap" interior.
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Good luck! Watch the bond ratings, though... :scared:

Can you do me a favor? "Suggest" to management that they spin off GMAC into a separate publicly-traded company. They can still have a controlling interest in it (own let's say 50-75% of the outstanding shares), but I think that'd be a great source of funding. I'd be first in line for that IPO! :crazy: :dopey: :D :cool:
 

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