Will General Motors declare bankruptcy?

[Ghost C]

How much does this car cost?

- No wonder european press give US cars such a hard time about their interiors, this interior looks like it came out of a £12k Vauxhall Astra - not a 'premium' sports saloon. It's got more cheap plastic than Michael Jackson's face!

And for comparison, here is BMW's flagship $82,000 coupe.

Note that the entire dash, center console, and half of the steering wheel is one hundred percent plastic. For $30,000 more than the V. Also note that the wood inserts are optional and cost extra, if you don't want them, guess what you get? Aluminum-colored plastic. Sooo much better.

 

[Zardoz]

...If they make it to 08, that's hilarious...

I don't think very many people are laughing along with you...

 

[niky]

There are good looking dashboards out in executive land... but I must agree, some of the new BMW boards are just boring. I wasn't impressed by the plastic in the Z4, either.

 

[VIPFREAK]

Well ****... They keep shooting themselves in the foot rather than fix the CURRENT problems and they won't have a choice.

 

[Joey D]

Does that include the SS Supercharged and ION Redline models as well?

Yes and they will be turboed instead of supercharged.

 

[Tornado]

Yes and they will be turboed instead of supercharged.

Like the Opel 2.2L used in the Astra GTC and Lotus Europa S?

 

[Joey D]

No I'm pretty sure they are just going to turbo the 2.0L Ecotec they have in there now.

 

[Tornado]

No I'm pretty sure they are just going to turbo the 2.0L Ecotec they have in there now.

Oh yeah. I forgot that the N/A models carry the 2.2 Ecotec and the S'charged models carry the 2.0.

 

[TheCracker]

$51,000 and I see a bunch of leather, but plastic is just easier to use. There is also hard rubber stuff for the dash. But I would rather have a cheaper interior and a better car outside.

But you spend all of your time in the car - in the car! - why not make it a better place to be?

And for comparison, here is BMW's flagship $82,000 coupe.

Note that the entire dash, center console, and half of the steering wheel is one hundred percent plastic. For $30,000 more than the V. Also note that the wood inserts are optional and cost extra, if you don't want them, guess what you get? Aluminum-colored plastic. Sooo much better.

99.9% of cars have a 'all plastic' interior, very few cars, mostly Bentley's and Rolls, use real wood. Its the quality and styling of the interior plastics that let top-end US cars down. I've not seen a review of an American car where the quality of the interior hasn't seriously let the car down. Its one thing to have a crappy interior in a Neon, but when you are trying to flog a Caddy to someone whose used to Merc's and BMW's, they're going to make their minds up even before they drive the car.

 

[Disturbed07]

it's a bit odd, how the only thing people complain about on these American cars is the plasticky interior, everywhere else, they're claimed better in reviews, yet the Mags all claim (a lot anyway) the foreign cars victorious - over a plasticy interior? when everything else is better? Quality Interior is a very nice thing to have, but it also serves no function other than vanity functions, feeling nice, and looking pretty. The American cars all do the same stuff, the buttons just don't feel as pleasurable as they could, and there isnt fake wood trim on the dash. It sounds worse that way doesnt it? Yet I still want a BMW M3 more than just about any other car, of course, that's cause chicks dig 'em too

 

[Poverty]

I can assure you guys that when your past 25 the interior of a car counts alot. The interior helps to give the car a good feel and even if the outside of the car is ugly as long as the inside is nice and comfortable the owner will get a feel good factor from it and will buy from that manufacturer again. The interior of a car is undeniably extremly important.

As for that BMW interior that is horrendous. Absolutely yuck but were the picture has been shrunken down its kinda pixeleated giving the effect that there is alot of cheap plastic inside it.

One of the nicest interiors Ive seen has come off this audi A6.

Heres a better pic of the 6 series interior.

 

[Wolfe]

Audi interiors = teh awesome

Anyway, american cars are let down by more than just interiors -- I don't know what magazines you guys have been reading.

I've read reviews where american cars will have less refined rides than their competitors (although those competitors offer the same handling performance), or where the american car will be too soft and be at a disadvantage in cornering (where those competitors don't have too-harsh rides). I've also read reviews where the american competitor can't compete in practicality, whether it's interior room, trunk room or luggage space, fuel economy, etc. There are also times when the american competitor has a clunkier shifter, a steering wheel with zero/little feedback, a frumpy automatic transmission, or non-supportive seats.

Am I saying that american cars always have these problems? No. I'm simply stating that many magazine comparisons are determined by factors other than the interior.

 

[Joey D]

I hate how car magazines test, 95% of cars on the road today will never experience hard driving. So who cares if the suspension is soft, it gives you a better ride on a bumpy road.

 

[Poverty]

I hate how car magazines test, 95% of cars on the road today will never experience hard driving. So who cares if the suspension is soft, it gives you a better ride on a bumpy road.

True but sharp handling will put a smile on a consumers face when he once in a while does stretch the cars legs. But then one could argue why would anyone need a car with a engine over the size of 2000cc? Or more than 200hp?

Granted Id Rather have a good handling 200hp car than a bellowing hippopotamus of a car with 300hp.

 

[Joey D]

I look at it this way, my parents are the two most average "rich" people in the world so I use them to judge a lot of the car buying. My mom bought a Pacifica because it rode nice, was AWD, and was nice to drive. My dad right now have a Chevy G-Van that he uses when he pulls our boat and stuff, which he bought from work. And he drives Grand Prix, normal one with a V6 in it, to and from work. Why did he buy it? Because it rode nice, sort of a big car, and it wasn't overly expensive.

 

[Ghost C]

99.9% of cars have a 'all plastic' interior, very few cars, mostly Bentley's and Rolls, use real wood. Its the quality and styling of the interior plastics that let top-end US cars down. I've not seen a review of an American car where the quality of the interior hasn't seriously let the car down. Its one thing to have a crappy interior in a Neon, but when you are trying to flog a Caddy to someone whose used to Merc's and BMW's, they're going to make their minds up even before they drive the car.

Cadillac has offered real wood trim since sometime before I was born on nearly every vehicle they sell. Also note that the plastic on the inside of my car is limited to: The vents, the trim around the doors, the trim around the gauges, the steering column cover, the multi-stalk, and the plastic wood. Everything else is leather, fake leather, carpet, or metal.

I've read reviews where american cars will have less refined rides than their competitors (although those competitors offer the same handling performance), or where the american car will be too soft and be at a disadvantage in cornering (where those competitors don't have too-harsh rides).

Apparently, the people who wrote these reviews of "less refined" never heard of the saying "rides like a Cadillac" - The phrase came about for a reason.

I've also read reviews where the american competitor can't compete in practicality, whether it's interior room, trunk room or luggage space, fuel economy, etc.

Here's a funny story, the 645 (Yes, I will beat this car to death) has less leg room, front AND rear (I'm not kidding), than my brother's Geo Storm. Please, let me run out to a BMW dealership and pay $82,000 for a car with less interior space than a compact car, really.

There are also times when the american competitor has a clunkier shifter, a steering wheel with zero/little feedback, a frumpy automatic transmission, or non-supportive seats.

The autostick in the 645 is utter crap. It takes ten years to shift when you manually shift it, and I have no idea what it's like in regular mode since I had no desire to figure it out. And if by "supportive", magazines mean "hard as bricks" such as the seats in the 645, I will take my easy chair softness (Consumer Guide) seats over "supportive" any day.

If you can't tell, I don't like the 645 at all. The one Bangle'd car I enjoy the looks of, is ruined by the sheer sucktitude of the rest of the car.

 

[Tornado]

Toyota to topple GM in 2006
Not long ago GM announced will cut its North American production capacity by 1 million units. Now it seems that most will be absorbed by its arch-rival Toyota. To shock the industry, Toyota has announced it estimate to increase production by 10% next year to 9.06 million vehicles. In contrast, industry analysts estimate GM will dropped below the 9 million mark next year. That means GM is very likely to lose its world's no. 1 title to Toyota after holding it for 75 years ! just a couple of years ago, Toyota overtook Ford to become world's number two.

Not only Toyota, Honda also expect its US sales will increase by 4% next year to the 1.5 million mark for the first time. Nissan is also expected to gain ground following the introduction of new Sentra. As a result, American Big 3 will be under great pressure next year, especially GM and Ford. Both companies had announced substantial restructuring plans to cut thousands of employees and shut down multiple plants.

Linky. Thats not good news for GM.

 

[Joey D]

Toyota has been on the verge of topping GM for a long time, I'm surprised it didn't happen a while ago.

 

[Tornado]

Toyota has been on the verge of topping GM for a long time, I'm surprised it didn't happen a while ago.

I know, but you have to admit this probably has scared GM more than anything else thus far.

 

[Joey D]

GM knew this was going to happen, its no big surprise.

 

[Tornado]

GM knew this was going to happen, its no big surprise.

Doesn't mean they were prepared for it, or weren't in denial. Let's face it, GM sells far more different cars that Toyota under many more brands, so GM should be worried greatly. They need (still) a lower amount of brands. They should kill one domestic (probably Pontiac, Saturn or Buick, and most likely Pontiac) and merge the models that aren't just the same thing into the still living brands, like what DCX did to Plymouth. Also on the domestic front, they need very badly to make the new crop of GM corporate minivans better looking and different enough from each other so it's not just like the plastered a different grill on each one without even changing the headlights. They also need to get rid of a foreign brand (most likely Saab, who GM has been pumping money into for years and never gotten anything back, or Vauxhall, which just uses less pretty versions of Opels, or both) to reduce the confusion in foreign markets.
Speaking of Opel, how did Opel get the Elise chassis they used in the Opel Speedster/Vauxhall VX220 and how did Lotus get the Turboed Ecotec used in the Europa S? Was it just a part-time callaboration?

 

[niky]

Lotus and GM have a long history. And with the end of the Speedster, yes, the turbo engine is what Lotus gets out of it. GM has been sourcing work from Lotus for years, and they still do, even if they don't own them anymore.

Vauxhall is pretty much Opel, no problem there. Saab is an example of how not to make cars. They've been a source of many unique, interesting and quirky cars, it'll be sad to see them go, but they must. The loss of Subaru was a shame... it was one of GM's better performers. GM also ought to put more money into Suzuki. They put out some swell cars when they have the budget for development, and they shouldn't be relegated to selling rebadges. Suzuki's new Swift just might have the balls to take it to the Mini, and their simple Jimny is a jewel of an off-roader for less money than a pack of peanuts.

Isuzu deserves some development as well. Either that or kill off their passenger car-making arm (yes they still have one... selling outdated utility vehicles, Troopers and rebadged Chevy trucks) completely and focus on trucks and diesels. What a waste. Isuzu's last new car died out a decade ago.

I don't know about domestics. I would think Saturn would have to go... Pontiac's new cars are pretty nice, some of them, at least. Saturn's staying alive mostly on rebadges (at least Pontiac's rebadged GTO and Vibe aren't competing with current American-market GM products).

GM knew this was going to happen, its no big surprise.

I'm surprised it didn't happen earlier, either. Both GM and Ford knew they would have to lower their production volume to increase profitability and to focus on the cars that actually do make them money.

 

[Wolfe]

Apparently, the people who wrote these reviews of "less refined" never heard of the saying "rides like a Cadillac" - The phrase came about for a reason.

Apparently, the CTS-V doesn't live up to the phrase. I imagine that if it did ride "like a Cadillac," it would have had absolutely no chance against the M3 and S4 in the twisties.

Here's a funny story, the 645 (Yes, I will beat this car to death) has less leg room, front AND rear (I'm not kidding), than my brother's Geo Storm. Please, let me run out to a BMW dealership and pay $82,000 for a car with less interior space than a compact car, really.

The run to the dealership in the Geo will take longer than the run back home in the 645.

The autostick in the 645 is utter crap. It takes ten years to shift when you manually shift it, and I have no idea what it's like in regular mode since I had no desire to figure it out. And if by "supportive", magazines mean "hard as bricks" such as the seats in the 645, I will take my easy chair softness (Consumer Guide) seats over "supportive" any day.

If you can't tell, I don't like the 645 at all. The one Bangle'd car I enjoy the looks of, is ruined by the sheer sucktitude of the rest of the car.

BMW's SMG sucks, for the most part. I think the M5/M6's is supposed to be better, but VAG's DSG is still the best "flappy-paddle gearbox."

 

[Poverty]

How are the shares doing on GM. Im very interested in purchasing some as like B_X I believe they will shoot back up over the long term.Any thoughts on this?

 

[Joey D]

GM stock closed yesterday at 19.42 up .41.

 

[Poverty]

Thats a good sign. However I hope they will go down some more first which I will then buy.

Has GM got any predicted big sellers releasing soon?

 

[Joey D]

- Saturn Sky will be out very soon
- GMT 900 launch is slated with in a month or two, the Tahoes and Yukons are already on the road around here. These alone will sell well with there "good" gas mileage.
- The Caddy's are still doing well and will continue to do so
- Soltice GXP will be out soon
- The Hummer line is getting a refresh to make them more appealing
- The Aveo had been redesigned and will be out globally.
- GM also has a strong presence in China right now.


If the price goes to 17.00 I'm going to probabaly get 500 shares and just let em ride.

 

[neanderthal]

sadly, while all of the above is true
*the solstice and sky are niche products. wont do anything significant for GMs bottom line
*the hummers' sales are so way way off from first year sales that a refresh alone isnt going to cut it. also, people are more sensitive to fuel economy now, evern since the prices have fallen back down, so i dont see sales going up except for the H3, and its novelty will wear off soon.
* the aveo is not a big profit maker


so that leaves cadillac and the GMT 900s.
cadillac is fortunate to have a good lineup that fairly new. and mostly based on the CTS platform (CTS, STS and SRX) and GMT 800 (escalades and ESVs) so that means lower costs, plus the tooling is all paid for already

they aint out the hole yet

ford on the other hand has some home runs in the car segment. the mustang, the fusion and all its clones, and the focus is still popular. only hte 500 is seeming to be a dud.
their trucks are down big time.

 

[niky]

The Cobalt's doing very well, despite not attracting much attention from the press... ???

 

[Tornado]

The Cobalt's doing very well, despite not attracting much attention from the press... ???

It could be because of the luanch of the new Civic.