Will General Motors declare bankruptcy?

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I'm telling you the GMT900's alone will help GM out a ton, and if they fix their UAW problem they will be back on the right track. Not perfect, but on the right track.
 
Well, combine the new GMT900 with the price cuts (baisicly negating the incentives), they should have a pretty good year this year. Plus, having halo cars like the Camaro for the public to gawk at and flock to the dealers with questions about buying, it also gets them to look at other high-performance models like the SSR and Monte Carlo SS while they wait...

We will just have to wait and see... Maybe the updated Saturns will sell well? Will cheap hybrid versions of the Vue and Tahoe sell? Can cars like the Aveo hold off the Fit, Yaris, and Versa? Wait and see...
 
YSSMAN
...it also gets them to look at other high-performance models like the SSR and Monte Carlo SS while they wait...
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I think calling those two cars "high performance" just made me die a little inside.
But anyways, how do you think people will react without incentives? I'm hoping it doesn't backfire, because it has become such an expectation in America that even Hyundai (Hyundai!) has to do it to sell cars.
YSSMAN
Maybe the updated Saturns will sell well? Will cheap hybrid versions of the Vue and Tahoe sell? Can cars like the Aveo hold off the Fit, Yaris, and Versa?
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I think the Aveo, VUE and Tahoe (assuming this hybrid is actually a hybrid, and not just a converter for a 120V outlet like the last one was) will sell, but I sadly don't think the updated Saturns will sell any better than they did before. Uglifying every car in your lineup and calling it updated siply doesn't do it for me. I'd be surprised if VUE sales don't tank now that it's been restyled.
 
They are real hybrid systems, which is good and will be a strong selling point since they don't make the price really high.

Saturn will basically become Opel in 2008.
 
It's not you. I'm also sick of the left-wing media attempts to get buyers to lose faith in GM so they can take over the world in their priuses.
 
GM's new Hybrid systems are the same type of "inline-hybrids" that Honda has on the Insight, Civic, and Accord... Baisicly where the Engine and transmission is seperated by an electric motor... Not like the more complicated and more expensive systems found on Toyotas that have the transmission paired with the gas engine on one side and the electric on the other...

The difference between the two is mostly that the Toyota's versions can run just on electric power up untill 20 or 30 MPH, ulike the Honda and GM units that shut off the gas engine when stopped, but use the electric motor to take the load off of the gas engine...

The SSR is somewhat of a high-performance vehicle now that you can outfit it with the LS2 and the T56... The Monte Carlo SS performs well for a FWD car, and it is actually as fast as the last 2002 Camaro Z/28s...

With the Aveo, I dunno... The new style along with the updated interior do help combat the "rebadged Daewoo" feeling, but I am still completely captured by the Fit...

As for bad press about GM, Ford, and DCX it is everywhere... I was watching Your World With Niel Cavuto on Friday and he was baisicly in a five minuite arguement with a guy from Forbes who wouldnt shut up. Niel just wanted him to say that American cars have improved and that things are looking up (which they are), but all the Forbes guy could focus on is slumping sales and the poor fuel economy compared to the Japanese models (even though American cars get the same and do it on regular fuel, suck on that Honda!)...
 
the CTS-V (new and improved version II) seems to outperform the M5. i stand corrected.

the monte carlo SS is just whats wrong with GM. when chrysler brings out the magnum and 300, followed by the charger, GM replies with that?????????? why would i buy it when its as sexy as a dishwasher (the electric appliance, not the female kind) and wrong wheel drive?

the turnaround at GM has a lot hinging on the bankuptcy filing of delphi or whoever it is.
 
GM BUILT A FWD CAR BECAUSE IT'S CHEAPER AND MOST PEOPLE DON'T GIVE A DAMN!!!! How many times do I have to say it?
 
BlazinXtreme
GM BUILT A FWD CAR BECAUSE IT'S CHEAPER AND MOST PEOPLE DON'T GIVE A DAMN!!!! How many times do I have to say it?
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But the SS model is for enthusiasts, and enthusiasts will give a huge damn about what wheel drive it is.
 
There hasn't been an Impala enthusiast since probably the 70's. The ones in the early 90's were Caprices with out of rear wheel skirt on them.
 
BlazinXtreme
There hasn't been an Impala enthusiast since probably the 70's. The ones in the early 90's were Caprices with out of rear wheel skirt on them.
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there's nothing wrong with making it RWD and getting some more enthusiasts, would there? If it were RWD, and had a manual, i'd probably look at that first as an affordable, sporty family sedan.
 
You know that would mean GM would need to shell out millions if not billions to create and entirely new platform? I mean I guess they could put the next generation on the Zeta platform (GTO) but its not very big and wouldn't make a good car. So you see saying make it RWD is simple, doing it is costly...and GM doesn't have a ton of pissing around money right now.
 
BlazinXtreme
You know that would mean GM would need to shell out millions if not billions to create and entirely new platform? I mean I guess they could put the next generation on the Zeta platform (GTO) but its not very big and wouldn't make a good car. So you see saying make it RWD is simple, doing it is costly...and GM doesn't have a ton of pissing around money right now.
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So they can blow billions into the GMT 900 platform for the new Tahoe/Suburbans, but they can't do the same for a bigger RWD platform, especially given that the full size SUV market is on the decline right now, and making a RWD Impala would give GM a real 300C competitor, especially since the 300C was such a success because it was going back to it's big American sedan roots by being big, flash and RWD. GM should do the same too.
 
Haven't you ever pondered the possibility that a significant portion of GM's truck/SUV market consists of GM fans who refuse to buy a FWD car?

Anyway, Blazin, you're right, FWD is indeed cheaper. Also, more importantly, most people don't give a damn. Yes.

That's why you produce practical sedans and such that happen to be RWD and handle well, reaping the profits of both the average Joe/Jane, and the enthusiasts.
 
BlazinXtreme
There hasn't been an Impala enthusiast since probably the 70's. The ones in the early 90's were Caprices with out of rear wheel skirt on them.
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http://www.vincihiperformance.com/vinci/custcars/BAXLEY SS IMPALA.jpg

Though I don't mind the previous gen. (One with 4 tail lights), I still think this was the best looking Impala ever built. I mean, the Caprice is nice and this Impala was built off it, but it just seemed so much more badass than the Caprice. There was nothing like a '95 Impala SS in black for Impala generations. You just don't see many these days. :indiff:
 
^^^ he's right...

Anybody wondering what any car's rpm's are for any given speed, simply take how many mph that gear reaches at red-line, then divide rpm by speed. Now simply multiply that number by new speed. example: 8000 divide by 205 = 39.02439. X 161 = 6282.9267. so assuming(dont know) the M5 redlines at 205, it'll be revving almost 6300 rpm at 160. or as in my previous example, at 80mph, about 3150 = slightly more rpm's than my 4-banger Grand-Am. which is at 3100(approx)


FWD on a Monte Carlo? most people don't care? yes thats true.
RWD on a Monte Carlo? most people won't care, but it'll attract enthusiasts? true, but it will scare away some buyers who (would) now see it as a sports car.

GM will be better off making a Camaro again, then they've once again got it for all, with the added addition of a RWD sedan, that they should make only one of, be it the Impala, Monte Carlo, whatever, they should have one.
 
So they can blow billions into the GMT 900 platform for the new Tahoe/Suburbans, but they can't do the same for a bigger RWD platform, especially given that the full size SUV market is on the decline right now, and making a RWD Impala would give GM a real 300C competitor, especially since the 300C was such a success because it was going back to it's big American sedan roots by being big, flash and RWD. GM should do the same too.
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GM will sell billions of the GMT900's though so it's fine. The trucks are what in theory should save GM, and I believe they will. The new 900 platform is extremely important to the company. Also the old 800 platform was ancient.

But the market for RWD sedan's is very small compared to the trucks. Most people don't give a damn which wheel drive their car is...and most don't even know. I've head so many people think every car is rear drive.

That's why you produce practical sedans and such that happen to be RWD and handle well, reaping the profits of both the average Joe/Jane, and the enthusiasts.
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Here's the deal, RWD sedan's don't sell in Michigan...why? Because they handle like complete ass in the snow, hence why people pretty much buy FWD or AWD. GM should produce AWD cars, that would indeed help.
 
High-Test
It's not you. I'm also sick of the left-wing media attempts to get buyers to lose faith in GM so they can take over the world in their priuses.
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Well, what I meant, of course, is that I'm tired of the fact that GM and Ford continue to struggle so badly while the Japanese brands eat their respective lunches.

However, if you really do believe that its all the fault of the people who are simply reporting these undeniable facts, and that the real problem is that there is some sort of "media conspiracy" that is causing people to buy Toyotas, Hondas, and Nissans, then you are free to continue deluding yourself as long as you like.
 
That's why you produce practical sedans and such that happen to be RWD and handle well, reaping the profits of both the average Joe/Jane, and the enthusiasts.
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Like BMW.

GM should produce AWD cars, that would indeed help.
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Daimler Chrysler might be heading that way in the future if they can work out a deal to use some audi chassis'.
 
However, if you really do believe that its all the fault of the people who are simply reporting these undeniable facts, and that the real problem is that there is some sort of "media conspiracy" that is causing people to buy Toyotas, Hondas, and Nissans, then you are free to continue deluding yourself as long as you like.
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Errr...the media is very biased towards non-American cars
 
high test
so toyota and honda et al are left wing and GM and ford are right wing?
does that demarcartion go completely along import and domestic lines or are there some imports who are right wing?

becasue i se that demarcation as "struggling vs succesful"
 
Errr...the media is very biased towards non-American cars
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From a fanboys point of view.Lets face it most of GM's lineup wasnt exactly a reason to jump up and down about.

Did teenage boys lust after theyre products?
 
BlazinXtreme
Errr...the media is very biased towards non-American cars
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my experience with them is that they simply report, that they really dont know the facts, but report what they observe.



domestic sales are down. GM and ford are struggling, honda nissan and toyota are not. those are the facts
 
Look at the media's representation of American car's quality? They some how show them as unreliable and from the 1970's, while Japanese and European cars can do no wrong. Hence why I read Autoweek, they will bash a bad Japanese car and praise a good American car, and vice versa.

But yes I don't know to many guys around mine and my brother's age who wouldn't want a GTO, Corvette, CobaltSS, etc. So yes teenagers want their cars. That's not even mentioning trucks.
 
I was about to say, I know a few guys around my age who would like a new Vette or GTO.💡
 
BlazinXtreme
GM will sell billions of the GMT900's though so it's fine. The trucks are what in theory should save GM, and I believe they will. The new 900 platform is extremely important to the company. Also the old 800 platform was ancient.

But the market for RWD sedan's is very small compared to the trucks. Most people don't give a damn which wheel drive their car is...and most don't even know. I've head so many people think every car is rear drive.



Here's the deal, RWD sedan's don't sell in Michigan...why? Because they handle like complete ass in the snow, hence why people pretty much buy FWD or AWD. GM should produce AWD cars, that would indeed help.
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I'm sorry, but GM wont' sell billions of GMT900's with gas prices this high now. the Full size market is in a slump now, and it's going down soon. And if people don't know what wheel drive their car is, just make it RWD to also please the enthusiasts. Regular people won't care, but enthusiasts will be pleased that it's RWD, and bam, more sales for you.
And guess what? BMW seems to be doing just fine with their RWD only cars. 4wd makes up a very small percentage of BMW cars. And you seem to have a very ancient believing that RWD sucks ass in snow. With even all season tires, an RWD car will do just fine in the snow, as pretty much every car todeay is equipped with TCS and anti slippage control and other things to save your ass. Granted, it may not be as good as AWD in the snow, but it's definately as easy as FWD to drive in the snow, if you've got a modern RWD.
 
GM will surpass Ford selling the GMT900's, you want to know why? The first Hybrid full sized trucks. You get great mileage and can still pull your boat and haul the kids around. And I meant billions of dollars worth, not in actualy product, shame on me for not typing clear.

But in wintery states most people won't buy a RWD car because of the weather. My truck is rear wheel drive, with all seaons on it, and its not very powerful and even I have some trouble in the snow. I can only imagine how a 300hp car would do. But most people will not buy RWD because they are worse in the snow.

Plus like I said people don't buy a car based on drivetrain (unless its AWD then people assume it's awesome), but I promise you that the number one selling factor in cars in looks, options, and horsepower numbers.
 
Blazin', I may be wrong, but the GMT900's...are you referring to the GM SUV's?
 
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