Will General Motors declare bankruptcy?

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are they? i really don't know, i don't follow future cars. however i am aware that the new model was released in europe nearly a year ago, and the current one is getting outdated, especially with the arrival of that new japanese car.
 
M5Power
are they? i really don't know, i don't follow future cars. however i am aware that the new model was released in europe nearly a year ago, and the current one is getting outdated, especially with the arrival of that new japanese car.
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I have heard nothing. :guilty: This is just like with the first Focus. I wanted Focus to be my first American car, back in 1998. Unfortunately, I couldn't wait for the snail-like effort of Ford to bring the car to the States, so I settled for the Accord instead. It worked out pretty good though, since I was very happy with the Accord, and Focus were full of issues in the beginning.

I was reading this whatever industry magazine(I can't remember the name of it). They listed the car manufacturers "units sold" by each year for last five years. Chevrolet brand hasn't suffered at all in each of last five years. Ford on the other hand..... :scared: Ford, Mercury, Lincoln. All three brands has been selling noticeably less and less units each year(for last five years). I thought for sure Ford had bounced back in 2005, with the employee pricing, but they still failed to rebound. Get your act together, Ford!
 
Last I had herd, there werent any plans to release the C1 Focus that is sold in Europe/Asia, in the US. Apparently the US model was still "too new" and with the updated exterior, there was still enough life in the platform and powertrain to keep it rolling. Ford says the car is "too expensive" for the US market, and would move it out of it's economy car slot. C/D said that the new Focus is atleast two years away, assuming that cost does drop eventually.

IMO: Ford needs to wise up and therefore line-up their product launches between the US and Europe/Asia. The Focus is their bread-and-butter small car, and not having an updated version is hurting their bottom end. No one wants to buy a car that hasent changed much since 1998, oh wait... The last Mustang dated back to 1979, so Ford must be assuming they can sell the Focus for that long...
 
M5Power
for the record, regarding all of those "focus recalls" one thing you absolutely must realise about focus is that they just make ten zillion of the things. typically the recalls only apply to certain trim levels with certain body styles in certain years....you need to be careful not to label a recall as a factor of reliability.
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Yeah, but the problems were fairly significant --

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/ford_focus_fires.html
 
We (Australia) have had the new Focus for about 5-6 months now.
 
a6m5
I was reading this whatever industry magazine(I can't remember the name of it). They listed the car manufacturers "units sold" by each year for last five years. Chevrolet brand hasn't suffered at all in each of last five years. Ford on the other hand..... :scared: Ford, Mercury, Lincoln. All three brands has been selling noticeably less and less units each year(for last five years). I thought for sure Ford had bounced back in 2005, with the employee pricing, but they still failed to rebound. Get your act together, Ford!
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A lot of GM/Chevy sales (and Ford too, but to a lesser extent) are fleet sales, whcih bump up the sales numbers but do very little for the bottom line..
 
Ford is complaining now about Chevrolet taking top honors for 2005. Apparently a different company had Ford ahead of GM in the US by 5000 REGISTERED vehciles...

So what matters more? Sales or registration?
 
profitable sales.

period.

wow ford - you can sell f-series trucks to ambulance companies. wow suzuki - you can force esteems on enterprise rental car. i'm absolutely sick of profitless fleet sales continually being reported in sales totals. yeah, it's anothe car on the road, but it doesn't make a penny for the brand, period.
 
M5Power
profitable sales.

period.

wow ford - you can sell f-series trucks to ambulance companies. wow suzuki - you can force esteems on enterprise rental car. i'm absolutely sick of profitless fleet sales continually being reported in sales totals. yeah, it's anothe car on the road, but it doesn't make a penny for the brand, period.
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If they sell their trucks to ambulance companies why doesn't it make money for the brand?
 
Well, yes and no. :confused:

Think of a "bell curve" and apply it to the profit you make as the number of cars you make (and sell) increases.
As you move from left to right, the number of cars increases.
As the profit you make increases the bell curve takes shape... Eventually your bell curve falls and it corresponds to the number of cars being made.

When you sell several thousand cars in "fleets" it can take more money to build the cars than the sale of the cars will return. :ouch:

You have to build just the right amount and your profits will be maximized.

Both small and large production numbers can result in "good profits" and I suspect someone here was trying to say "fleet" sales may be hurting the companies involved.
 
I would agree that fleet slaes should not be included in sales figures at the end of the quarter/semester/year when automakers run their sales numbers. Its too much of a cushion for them to "make money" and bloviate about how they can sell more cars than the others.

...Of course, it will never happen in the US as it is one of the only ways that GM, Ford, and DCX can say that they sold more cars than Toyota every quarter.
 
Wow, I had no idea. I guess only the Dealers make money on fleet vehicles for sure. :lol:
 
I disagree that fleet sales should not be included.

They should.
If GM can sell 200 cars to a company because they want to buy 200 Cobalts then that means someone is buying 200 Cobalts and GM should report that in their sales. :lol:

If they didn't report them in sales it would be like GM was saying "our cars just up and vanished!" :lol:

Instead of not publishing fleet sales as part of total sales, it may be a better idea to not make fleet sales in the first place. 👍

In any case, GM, Ford, DC, don't say they sell more vehicles than Toyota... It's a well known fact that Toyota had the number one selling car for many years (I can't say what it is now, but for atleast 3 or 4 years there was no comparison). :ouch:

Now, regarding GM's problems...
Read this thread and post please... https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showpost.php?p=2132146&postcount=80
("wrecked my car, have little money...")

I can't say my opinion matters a great deal or anything but I have just bought a 2006, brand new car.

The entire story is printed out in that thread above and the final chapter of that story will be posted tonight. 👍

To put it simply though...
GM had my interest, my nationalism backing that interest, and nothing to lose with everything to gain.
What did GM do? They screwed it up.

Highlights for how they screwed up include:
Micro-management
Dealship Inventory
Regional Management
Regional Inventory

GM's people did not "meet me half way" so to speak.
They ruined by car buying experience and killed my hopes of buying a car the day I walked into the dealer.
The line-up at the dealership was weak as hell (detailed in the "wrecked..." thread).
The prices were deceptively high which placed the potential candidate for my purchase in a whole new class that I did not expect to be in. 👎
The product in that new class was lacking in overall quality compared to the competition. :(

All in all,
GM has problems that can be solved but are not being solved at this time (to my knowledge).

I want to ask you all this one question.
Do you think GM's problems are in the cars they make or the management at some level or another?

I believe it is the management at the levels I have described above that is responsible for GM's hardships. :ouch:

National management may also be responsible for the problems but I didn't get to see that with my own eyes... The local and regional management though :lol:... they were horrible. :banghead: :ouch: :boggled:
 
Kent
In any case, GM, Ford, DC, don't say they sell more vehicles than Toyota... It's a well known fact that Toyota had the number one selling car for many years (I can't say what it is now, but for atleast 3 or 4 years there was no comparison). :ouch:
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They don't; but for a long time in the 90s they said they did (based on fleet sales), and there current sales standings a buoyed heavily by fleet sales. US makes did 27% of their sales as fleet sales. The bestselling cars are the Camry, Accord, Civic, Taurus, and Impala in that order. and the bestselling vehicle is the F-150. I bet if fleet sales were excluded, Taurus and Impala would not even make the top 10, and F-150 would be replaced by the Camry as bestselling vehicle. It would be nice if there were some published figures so people don't have to guess as to which sales are "real" sales. But anyways, like you said, the best thing would be if they just focused at selling the cars at more of a profit. (source)
Now, regarding GM's problems...
Read this thread and post please... https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showpost.php?p=2132146&postcount=80
("wrecked my car, have little money...")

I can't say my opinion matters a great deal or anything but I have just bought a 2006, brand new car.

The entire story is printed out in that thread above and the final chapter of that story will be posted tonight. 👍

To put it simply though...
GM had my interest, my nationalism backing that interest, and nothing to lose with everything to gain.
What did GM do? They screwed it up.
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GM is not responsible for the actions of an independent dealer. My parents were screwed by a Honda dealer. This does not make the Honda any less/more of a car, or change my personal ranking/opinion of the car. In fact, my parents did end up buying the same car, just from a different dealer.
I want to ask you all this one question.
Do you think GM's problems are in the cars they make or the management at some level or another?

I believe it is the management at the levels I have described above that is responsible for GM's hardships. :ouch:

National management may also be responsible for the problems but I didn't get to see that with my own eyes... The local and regional management though :lol:... they were horrible. :banghead: :ouch: :boggled:
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Two years ago I would have said that the cars/engineering was at fault. While there still are some uncompetitive cars in GM's lineup (vans, for example), by-and-large quality has improved and the new designs are better. I'd blame the marketing for not setting a "reasonable" market price. Public opion has to swing back the other way, too, and that takes a long time. I'd say your dealer is used to selling Cavaliers, and the tactics he user were probably the only way he could move them off the lot.
 
Well Niky, (btw, hello, good to catch you around the forum again :D )...

I have some concepts to discuss regarding your comments...

1) I consider Fleet Sales a valid form of sales. If fleet sales were more profitable I would totally support them. However, because of what fleet sales to rental car companies can do to a vehicles long term value and reputation- I do not "like" fleet sales.
That still doesn't make them any less important or valid... Fleet sales are just those- Important and Valid.

2) GM may not be legally responsible for the actions of their dealers but they are certain the victims of their dealers actions.
Does this mean GM is responsible for the actions of their dealers? No.
Does this mean GM should put more effort into controlling the quality of their dealerships? Quite possibly YES. 👍

GM has no obligation to make sure their dealers are top notch.
However, GM should spent more time concerning themselves with the actions of their dealers.

If I was a GM executive, I would suggest that "GM over-sight of dealer practices" became a top priority.

That doesn't mean GM could controll sales tactics or specific inventories.
However, that also does not mean that GM would be prohibited from "keeping dibs" on the dealers, their inventory, their sales, and their sales practices.

Fact is, you are right- a dealership is responsible for the "GM" experience (although you didn't say that exactly, I am simply re-stating what I thought to be the thesis of your comment).

However, GM does have a vested interest in the atmosphere, practices, and availible product at the various dealers carrying the GM name.

As hard as it may be to do so, I believe GM needs to take a more previlant role at the dealership level.

True:
The legal ability to act on this idea very limited.

False:
GM has absolutely no responsibility to invest in this sort of idea.

I fully believe that GM's dealers were responsible for my purchase from another brand.
My experience with GM was not limited to one dealer... Several dealers proved to be problems in my search.
Not suprisingly, Toyota was more receptive, forward about pricing / build quality, and respectful than GM.

Indeed the dealer level is where the problems occured but when it is the "Dealers" that create and the problems there is a greater issue at hand.

If this was one isolated incident or limited to one particular dealer I would not be so tough on GM (as I really like GM in general).
However, this was not an isolated incident or a single dealer... The problems I faced were broad in spectrum and point of origin. :ouch:
 
...I would agree that it is management at GM that is causing about, oh, 99% of the problems at GM. All of their products have the goods to be as good or better than their competition from Japan and Germany, but its the A-Holes at the front office and the beancounters in the back that make cars like the Cobalt and STS lose out to their competition.

Mechanicaly speaking, GM is as good as gold. Their technology may be a bit behind some of the competition, but when it is just as fuel efficent, has fewer problems, and is overall cheaper to build, I consider that to be a success. But with the rest of the car, its hit and miss. Body panels and paint quality is way up (sometimes even on Honda), but it is the interior quality that kills GM in the end. Sure, they are on par with outgoing models, but once a new one is out, the GM's arent as good as they should have been...

About the GM dealers:
I personally have only had a few bad expiriences at a GM dealer, and this particular one is notorious for their somewhat shady dealer practices. Tod Wenzel Bontiac/Buick/GMC in Grand Rapids, MI is literally the ONLY GM dealer I would ever avoid in the West Michigan area. The salesmen always have an angle when they are talking to you about a car or truck, talk to you like you have no idea what a car is (and if you do, they dont know what they are talking about in the first place...), or will altogether ignore you when looking at new cars and trucks.

I would have to say that most GM dealers I've been to are some of the best in terms of customer service and overall "niceness" when it comes to browsing. Ford dealers are some of the worst, along with Honda and even Toyota. But as dealer management has been shuffling in my hometown (most dealers being bought out by the folks that own the Amway Corporation), service has been improving.
 
Chevrolet can't control dealers, but they are supposed to influence, or guide them. I've had nothing but problems with my local Nissan dealer, which is the only one in town. Unfortunately, Nissan could care less(they don't even bother sending me a automated reply), so next time I'm buying a car, I will be shopping somewhere else first.

I'm sorry you had a bad experience at the Chevy dealer, Kent. I would have to say, I think the biggest problem with the GM right now is the public opinion though(like skip mentioned).
YSSMAN
I would have to say that most GM dealers I've been to are some of the best in terms of customer service and overall "niceness" when it comes to browsing. Ford dealers are some of the worst, along with Honda and even Toyota. But as dealer management has been shuffling in my hometown (most dealers being bought out by the folks that own the Amway Corporation), service has been improving.
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It really does have lot to do with the ownerships though. I've been to some Honda, Ford dealers that are great, some not so good. Same thing with the ownership change. Some dealers will improve, my Nissan dealer haven't given a **** about anything, since it's been bought out.
 
It used to be that the corporations owned and operated the different dealers, and I think that in the case of GM, I belive they only do that with Saturn these days. Explains the high marks as good dealers?

With the Fox Motor Group (aka Amway through the DeVos family) buying up as many dealers as possible here in Grand Rapids, I have to say that they have done a great job in making formerly negative expiriences at some dealers completely dissapear. A long time ago, my family had switched Nissan dealers from GO! to Gezon because of GO!'s poor customer service, but after Fox bought GO! out a few years back, the dealer has become one of the best in town.

...Have to say though, the nicest dealers in town are by far Berger Chevrolet, Fox Mazda/Acura, Fox Audi/Porsche/Subaru, and Betten Imports (VW, Mercedes, Volvo).
 
It was even worse than they thought:

GM revises '05 loss $2 billion higher

General Motors Corp. on Thursday revised its loss for 2005 to $10.6 billion, $2 billion more than initially reported, due to charges associated with its restructuring, the bankruptcy of its former subsidiary Delphi Corp., and its finance arm GMAC.

Dang...
 
Zeta is going to be GM's saving grace, just as the LX program was for the Chrysler lineup. Things will change, slowly, but they are changing for the positive nonetheless...
 
Why is GM building MORE SUVs? Because they cant keep enough on the lots to meet the demand from their customers. The combination of low price, improved refinement, and quasi-car like fuel economy have made GMT900 versions of the Tahoe, Yukon, and Escalade popular again.

...Keep in mind that large truck-based SUVs are the biggest money-making vehicles that GM builds, and that is why so much money was dumped into their GMT900 program. The rest of the lineup should debut just a few weeks from now at the New York Auto Show, and you can probably expect much the same for the new Silverado and Sierra pickups that will share a majority of their parts with the Tahoe/Yukon.

Aslo keep in mind that GM announced about a week ago that they were pushing the release of several new GMT900-based models ahead, due to the increased demand for their trucks. The new Suburban and sister truck, the Avalanche, were pushed forward, as well as the rest of the Yukon and Escalade lineup.

...GM is banking a ton of money on the trucks, and it is one of the last things that they can "count on" for sales here in North America.
 

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