Will General Motors declare bankruptcy?

[YSSMAN]

Ive never noticed it on the Malibu... Are you talking pre-2005 models with the strange front end? One of the newer models drove by today and it only had the parking lights on, which is odd, since GM uses the automatic headlamps and they should have been on...

 

[neanderthal]

UAW Chief Calls for Workers to 'Dig In'

By KEN THOMAS

WASHINGTON (AP) - U.S. auto workers, struggling with the recent announcements of massive job cuts at General Motors Corp. and Ford Motor Co., need to take ``serious actions'' to strengthen the nation's manufacturing base and help working people, the union's president said Sunday.

United Auto Workers president Ron Gettelfinger told about 1,600 union political activists Sunday that the union had ``no choice but to dig in for the fight'' for a better legislative agenda amid rising health care costs, troubling trade policies and job cuts.

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``We cannot sugarcoat what we're facing as working people and as a nation. These are very serious times and it is time for us to take very serious actions,'' Gettelfinger said. ``If we don't stand up, who will?''

His address, opening the union's four-day conference, comes at a difficult time for an industry struggling under intense competition in the North America market and rising costs for labor and raw materials.

Delphi Corp., GM's former parts division, filed for bankruptcy last fall and is seeking steep wage cuts from workers. GM and Ford have outlined restructuring plans that will eliminate at least 64,000 jobs in the next six years.

Gettelfinger, in a pre-Super Bowl address, urged a universal health care system, measures to fight unfair trade practices, support for incentives to make ethanol more widely available and tax credits for gasoline-electric hybrid vehicles.

``We have to find ways to reach out to those who do not agree with us as well as those who have given up on participating in politics. We cannot just talk to ourselves - the stakes are too high,'' he said.

Most of the plant closures and job cuts detailed by Ford and GM must be negotiated with the UAW in 2007, when car makers and the UAW write a new contract. While UAW membership has fallen in recent years, the union still represents 1.1 million people and wields considerable clout.

The UAW agreed to cut GM's and Ford's costs last year by requiring autoworkers and retirees to pay more for their health care. The change passed on close votes and the union is reviewing similar requests from Chrysler Group, a division of DaimlerChrysler AG.

Gettelfinger told reporters that ``no decisions'' have been made in the Chrysler talks.

He has said the concessions were necessary at Ford and GM because both companies had lost U.S. market share. By contrast, Chrysler's market share was up 5 percent and workers at the division may not approve any concessions.

Speaking to delegates, Gettelfinger said ``the easy thing to do would have been to do nothing'' and he took ``full responsibility'' for the final decision on the GM and Ford health care agreements.

He said preliminary discussions with Delphi have been ongoing and expressed optimism: ``At least we're talking. That's progress from where we had been.''

But Gettelfinger said if the bankruptcy court approves financial bonuses for Delphi executives, a decision that could come this week, ``it's not going to fly with the membership.''

Union members are expected to hear this week from Democratic Sens. Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York and Evan Bayh of Indiana, both potential presidential candidates in 2008, and Democratic National Committee chairman Howard Dean.

On the Net:

United Auto Workers: http://www.uaw.org/


02/05/06 20:01

taken from news.netscape.

i wasnt able to find a direct link to the story

edit

ok checked AP news site and found this

 

[LeadSlead#2]

I don't believe a word of it.
1) Using expensive technologies to measure the time will not make it "feel" any faster. It's just how you measure it. In fact, the SAE correction factor can mean that if I take my car to a drag strip, I'll see a quicker time. Also, my engine is broken in, I won't use a full tank of gas, and I can leave the spare tire at home, and I can "cheat" easily in my own way...ice the intake, and plenty of other little tricks...
2) Seven or eight runs? I drive my car every day--in a week, I have 100s of oppertunities to test a differnet shift point or launch RPM. While a magazine might begin to feel owt how my car behaves on a level, clean surface, I know what to expect on every surface, ever temperature, and every grade. Whether I have the skill and concentration to extract that every time I want to is a different matter, but don't try and tell me some professional driver can "know" my car better in eight passes and a week of driving than I can over thousands of miles.

Thank God somebody said it.

Actually. Their times are right, they're just unrealistic for about 99% of the driving population.

Thank God somebody said that too.

yeah, i think we all agree that their drivers are unequalled in real life. let's move on, i hate discussing this topic. everyone refuses to believe that their trusty car magazines could possibly be wrong.

No, I did it. My brother did it. Skip did it. the mag drivers do it.... so... ??? that just means you can't maxamize your car's potential, case closed.


I have to say though, this whole, "GM's filing for bankruptcy" thing's a little old... everytime somebody posts something new, he same arguments come up, and the same people argue about it. Aren't the sub-topics usually more fun?

 

[Zardoz]

Study: High Fuel Prices Aren't Freaking Out Consumers

Not yet, anyway. Wait until they have to pay what Brits are paying...

 

[niky]

What this means to you: Translation: "You'll have to pry my cold, dead hands off the wheel of my SUV."

The problem is, prices aren't high enough yet... when you factor in purchase cost and everything else, people in the US aren't losing much money on gasoline in guzzlers... yet.

In Britain, even with the artificially high prices set to encourage buying smaller vehicles, some people still drive SUVs. The elasticity of the consumers and what they're willing to pay for gas is mind boggling... which is sad for conservationists.

But those numbers... 27% of owners willing to trade in down to 11%? What if the other 16% have already traded their SUVs in?

Oh, and Z... you're way off-topic... whatever topic this was in the first place.

Maybe that means that GM's GMT 9000 does have a chance to revitalize GM... if at least in part.

 

[Wolfe]

When nation-wide prices approached $3 per gallon (around the same time as Hurricane Katrina), everyone predicted the worst. Instead, prices dropped back down to normal. So, it's going to take a big price jump to convince SUV drivers to abandon their big machines -- otherwise they'll just wait for the price to drop again.

 

[YSSMAN]

Well, even during the summer when gas prices were in the low to mid $2 range people were still buying SUVs because GM, Ford, and DCX all had their employee pricing going on... Thats part of the reason why my Dad bought his Avalanche so fast, he was going to wait origionally for the GMT900 model, but when it was as cheap as he got it, there was no reason why not to.

For some reason my Dad is happy with 15.6MPG average in the Avalanche and said he wouldnt trade down unless gas went way over $4 a gallon because he doesnt drive that much during the week... Maybe less than 20 miles per day to work, to pick up his kids (my half brothers and sisters, way younger than me), and back home.

...And even if he did trade down, he would still be looking at an Impala SS or possibly the 2008 (2009?) Camaro... He doesnt want to give up V8 power, and I cant blame him...

 

[LeadSlead#2]

When nation-wide prices approached $3 per gallon (around the same time as Hurricane Katrina), everyone predicted the worst. Instead, prices dropped back down to normal. So, it's going to take a big price jump to convince SUV drivers to abandon their big machines -- otherwise they'll just wait for the price to drop again.

Normal, huh? why's it 2.59 here then? a year ago it was about 189
Speaking of, why's it going up now? I don't recall any hurricanes destroying anything lately.....?

 

[Zardoz]

Struggling automaker cuts salaries of its chairman, senior execs

Next, they can just go ahead and fire those guys...

 

[YSSMAN]

I'm all for GM dumping all of the company execs in favor of actually having car guys run the company like they did back in the '50s and '60s. Atleast that way someone in the company besides Lutz will know what the people want, and no matter what the cost, they are going to get it.

 

[Wolfe]

Normal, huh? why's it 2.59 here then? a year ago it was about 189
Speaking of, why's it going up now? I don't recall any hurricanes destroying anything lately.....?

"Normal" as in, before the sudden price hike. Not a year prior to the price hike.

I still doubt that Katrina had anything to do with that big price jump...

 

[niky]

It did have an effect. Panic pricing. They were saying some of the pump prices near the disaster went way over 3 bucks?

 

[LeadSlead#2]

5.99 in DC, and most places I saw in the Tampa region, (completely unaffected area) were about 309 for the cheap gas...

Wolfe, it was 219 before the hurricane, and it's about 269 now.

Katrina had some play, but obviously, the jacked the crap out of us, and still are, like I said, nothing has happened lately, and they're going up again.

Our prices won't match the U.K.'s probabley ever, simply because we have our own oil too, whereas U.K. does not.

 

[niky]

The UK actually does have some reserves, but apparently not enough.

Link by Zardoz.

 

[Zardoz]

You don't see this happen very often:

GM Gets 'Sell' Rating on Ongoing Concerns

Meanwhile:

Toyota profits more than double

In Europe, sales increased 15% to 210,000 vehicles, boosted by good demand for the RAV-4 sport utility vehicle and the new Corolla, Toyota said.

It sold 511,000 vehicles in North America, up 21% from a year ago.

 

[YSSMAN]

Some analists are predicting that Toyota will jump ahead of all of the Big Three automakers in just one year, but I am a bit skeptical.

GM, Ford, and DCX have some good products lined up for 2006 and beyond, and with Hybrid, Ethanol, and MDS/DOD systems comming into the mainstream of American Automobiles, Toyota is going to be loosing ground simply on the baisis that they build more fuel efficent cars and trucks.

Being that 2006 is also the year of the crossover, Toyota can expect to loose sales on the RAV4 and Highlander with new GM additions such as the Buick Encalve, Saturn Outlook, and GMC Acadia, along with the Ford Edge and Linclon MKX, and hell even the new Dodge and Jeep offerings based on the Caliber.

 

[Wolfe]

It did have an effect. Panic pricing. They were saying some of the pump prices near the disaster went way over 3 bucks?

That's what I mean. It had little to do with "damaged refineries" or whatever.

Wolfe, it was 219 before the hurricane, and it's about 269 now.

Are those average prices, or just the ones near you? In any case, all I'm saying is that prices jumped up during the hurricane, and then fell back down again, leading SUV drivers to believe that they can count on prices dropping down again.

 

[Zardoz]

US denies job cuts mean slowdown

Oh, really? Well, it means a hell of a "slowdown" for the people whose jobs get cut...

 

[TheCracker]

Our prices won't match the U.K.'s probabley ever, simply because we have our own oil too, whereas U.K. does not.

We do have our own oil, from the North Sea oil fields, but we get heavy tax slapped on it as well, which does discourage people from buying large capacity engines. However, it does smart a bit when it costs you £50 ($87) to fill your tank!

 

[niky]

Some analists are predicting that Toyota will jump ahead of all of the Big Three automakers in just one year, but I am a bit skeptical.

GM, Ford, and DCX have some good products lined up for 2006 and beyond, and with Hybrid, Ethanol, and MDS/DOD systems comming into the mainstream of American Automobiles, Toyota is going to be loosing ground simply on the baisis that they build more fuel efficent cars and trucks.

Being that 2006 is also the year of the crossover, Toyota can expect to loose sales on the RAV4 and Highlander with new GM additions such as the Buick Encalve, Saturn Outlook, and GMC Acadia, along with the Ford Edge and Linclon MKX, and hell even the new Dodge and Jeep offerings based on the Caliber.

I think Toyota will make it. And that's a definite. Both GM and Ford are cutting their fleet sales, which added some bulk to their sales numbers, but did little for their bottom line.

As for hybrids... who knows? Toyota already builds fuel efficient cars that get 40 mpg... they're called Corollas.

 

[neanderthal]

besides, the RAV4 is new this year and gets 30mpg.
toyota has made thier money on the highlander. its on last gen camry architecture, so everyone sold is easy money.

 

[YSSMAN]

After going to the Chicago Auto Show today, its a tough call to put Toyota above all three of the American companies in just one year. Cars like the Caliber, Tahoe, and Edge are going to be big sellers once they arrive, and after walking through the Toyota booth, I came away very unimpressed with a lot of their new products...

Which ones? The 2007 Camry and Yaris.

That said, the new FJ7 and Tundra are going to be strong sellers for Toyota in the near future, so, who knows?

 

[niky]

True, most Toyotas=boring, and the Camry is the epitome of "Toyota-ness", but that seems to sell... sadly.

 

[Wolfe]

Yep, boring sells, 'cause boring = safe.

 

[Zardoz]

Yep, boring sells, 'cause boring = safe.

"Safe", or reliable?

Look, most people are not car nuts. They couldn't care less about how a car handles when driven hard, and they don't need it to look all that cool and racy, for that matter.

Most people just want to open the door, sit down, hit the ignition, and drive from Point A to Point B and back to Point A, with a lot of confidence that the damned car won't act up or quit on them. They just want it to reliably carry them around and do it with no drama, reasonable safety, and perhaps a fair degree of comfort.

That's what Toyotas do best. They just run on and on with a minimum of problems. We can call it "boring", but that's what the great majority of drivers want, and that's what Toyota gives them.

 

[Wolfe]

"Safe", or reliable?

Look, most people are not car nuts. They couldn't care less about how a car handles when driven hard, and they don't need it to look all that cool and racy, for that matter.

Most people just want to open the door, sit down, hit the ignition, and drive from Point A to Point B and back to Point A, with a lot of confidence that the damned car won't act up or quit on them. They just want it to reliably carry them around and do it with no drama, reasonable safety, and perhaps a fair degree of comfort.

That's what Toyotas do best. They just run on and on with a minimum of problems. We can call it "boring", but that's what the great majority of drivers want, and that's what Toyota gives them.

Actually, one of the reasons I like BMW's is because they're so dependable, and BMW's are plenty sporty.

Reliability isn't boring. Actually, safety doesn't have to be boring, either. The reason why I said boring = safe is because cars that are slow, or at least designed for more for transport than fun, are perceived as being safer. When the average consumer thinks "sportscar," they think of a easily-shatterable fiberglass-bodied, small, light, wheelspin-happy RWD car, that is a big target for car theives. Or something similar.

 

[YSSMAN]

Not every Japanese or German car is more reliable than their American competition. Just this past year, Consumer Reports had said that the Ford Focus had half the problems of the BMW 7-Series, and the Buick Regal was the most reliable family sedan which beat out the Toyota Camry and Nissan Maxima.

In terms of overall problems, the Japanese lead the way at 12 problems per 100 vehicles, with the Americans at 18 per 100, and Europeans at 20 per 100. Also note that the industry average is at 17 per 100, so that would make American and European marques below average in terms of reliability.

Also important was the fact that European marques scored better in the "buy again" category, as they carry the greatest level of buyer loyalty. I myself can agree with that, as an owner of a Volkswagen, I will most likely buy again. Dont get me wrong, I love American cars, but when it comes down to it, they just dont do what the VWs do, and thats a problem.

Overview of 2005 models:

 

[Tornado]

Not every Japanese or German car is more reliable than their American competition. Just this past year, Consumer Reports had said that the Ford Focus had half the problems of the BMW 7-Series, and the Buick Regal was the most reliable family sedan which beat out the Toyota Camry and Nissan Maxima.

That is barring the 15-20 recalls (literally) the Focus has had since '99 I'll bet. Good job for Buick though.

]In terms of overall problems, the Japanese lead the way at 12 problems per 100 vehicles, with the Americans at 18 per 100, and Europeans at 20 per 100. Also note that the industry average is at 17 per 100, so that would make American and European marques below average in terms of reliability.

Wait, how is it possible? Do you mean European and American marques in general, or what? Because, last time I checked the Japanese (and Koreans) did not sell more cars than America and Europe combined.

Also important was the fact that European marques scored better in the "buy again" category, as they carry the greatest level of buyer loyalty. I myself can agree with that, as an owner of a Volkswagen, I will most likely buy again. Dont get me wrong, I love American cars, but when it comes down to it, they just dont do what the VWs do, and thats a problem.

Indeed, much of that probably has to do with Volkswagen in particular.

Overview of 2005 models:

What does the asterisk by Mazda mean? Also, I notice that the top four marques on that chart are for nameplates usually assosiated with older people, so I wonder if the cars are legitimately better than their cheaper, hipper counterparts, or if the "old people" just don't notice faults as much.

 

[1X83Z]

What does the asterisk by Mazda mean? Also, I notice that the top four marques on that chart are for nameplates usually assosiated with older people, so I wonder if the cars are legitimately better than their cheaper, hipper counterparts, or if the "old people" just don't notice faults as much.

idea: look at the bottom, where asterisks are usually explained.

my mother had an isuzu rodeo for thirteen years and we experienced not one single problem. that vehicle was so reliable it kept me up nights. we must've been in the vast minority.

for the record, regarding all of those "focus recalls" one thing you absolutely must realise about focus is that they just make ten zillion of the things. typically the recalls only apply to certain trim levels with certain body styles in certain years. the 1995-2001 ford explorer suffered something like 30 recalls, but i'll never forget how unbelievably specialized some of them were, my favorite one being some canadian explorers used as rental cars and then re-sold in new england may not have the proper daytime running lights. and that one only afflicted five-door models from 1998 or 1999! so you need to be careful not to label a recall as a factor of reliability.

another thing to mention about recalls: the ford escape and mazda tribute debuted in 2001 and had five recalls that year. a minority - but still a percentage - of vehicles were recalled all five times, most at least two. however since 2001, the twins have had just one recall, and triplet mercury mariner has yet to be recalled. judging by the first year of production, you might've called the vehicles unreliable, but that turned out not to be the case.

 

[a6m5]

Focuses(Foci?) did have tons of recalls when it first came out. They were considered pretty reliable car by the end of that same first generation, so it was quite a turn around.