Will GT ever simulate "special" abilities of cars?

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xSNAKEx

xSNAKEx

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No I don't mean power ups +20 spirit or kameyameyas, I mean for example how some cars have 4 Wheel Steering, or torque vectoring steering etc, air suspension, magnetic suspension, Active steering, etc. Many Nissans including all the R32-R34 Skylines (including GTRs), 300zx's and many mazdas etc have rear wheels that steer as you drive, so do some of the new BMWs now in addition to Active steering, but in the GT games, they don't. It completely transforms the character of a car, so its a important thing to implement IMO.

The only one I know of the the Evo Yaw control system they did in gt5.

Currently, all cars have the same traction control system, the same ASM, the Same ABS etc.

How about when you buy a car in stock form, it only has what the car has in real life? You should need to buy and install TCS, ASM, ABS etc on cars that don't have it, and amongst the ones that do, they should behave like their real life counterparts, unless you mod the car.

Do this, in addition to shuffle racing, for some droolingly fun racing.


hicas.jpg

mm_active_steering.jpg
 
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Seems like a nice idea. Kaz shows an interest in simulating each machine's characteristics fully. Maybe Tan san has deemed it impossible currently but maybe in the future they can do something like it.
 
sparkytooth
Seems like a nice idea. Kaz shows an interest in simulating each machine's characteristics fully. Maybe Tan san has deemed it impossible currently but maybe in the future they can do something like it.
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It shouldn't be too hard to implement. The physics engine is already there and would take care of it nicely. All they need to do is program how much the rear wheels turn and at what speed. This information is not particularly hard to gather, especially compared to many other aspects of making a racing sim game.

I know on the Mazdas and Nissans I have owned, driving with 4 wheel steering and without 4 wheel steering makes a HUGE difference to the way the car drive. You can ussually just pull a fuse to disable the system so its easy to compare. It is almost like driving an entirely different chassis. Well, the rear wheels are turning so you would expect this!
 
PD does spend alot of time and effort on modelling each cars specifics, atleast visually and sonically. Check out that GIF thread.

The game/cars should get more and more detailed as PD does away with standards and works to enhance premiums..plus PS4.

Realistic, detailed cars and driving experience is PDs goal, and im pretty sure youll see specific setups for individual cars in the near future.
 
stormbringer
PD does spend alot of time and effort on modelling each cars specifics, atleast visually and sonically. Check out that GIF thread.

The game/cars should get more and more detailed as PD does away with standards and works to enhance premiums..plus PS4.

Realistic, detailed cars and driving experience is PDs goal, and im pretty sure youll see specific setups for individual cars in the near future.
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I hope so. Id rather have a car detail slighly visually wrong as long as it handled and drove more accurarately. PD doesnt seem to model different types of suspension, suspension arms, bushes, or chassis rigidity and bracing throughout the car. I know its a huge task but these are vital aspects making the car move and react to the world around it in different ways
 
Let's see if we can get the basic things right first. I mean, what's the point of simulating the miniscule details of a car when you take it for a spin and have a 30% higher top speed than you should?
 
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If any F1 cars from 2014 would be in GT, the ERS and KERS will have to be implemented. Using the nitrous button for KERS is easy, but simulating the ERS will have to be done.
 
I could swear I remember 4 wheel steering was implemented on some cars in GT4.
 
As long as you can disable the rear wheel steering, if not, I don't want it, it makes oversteer very twitchy and unpredictable.
 
Very interesting indeed. I always wondered since old GT's if my Z32 Fairlady had a working HICAS. Since GT2 I've been watching the replays carefully to see if there is a change in the rear tire angle, but there isn't at all.
 
The huge number of cars is, in some ways, a huge handicap for Kaz.

Features like unique functions for specific cars, as well as custom body kits, and detailed interiors, can easily overwhelm a hopelessly undersized company like PD
 
As I remember in GT5, one or two models of Toyota Celica came with '4WS' in their model name. That should mean 4 wheel steering.

In a vague memory, they seemed a little more lively than other FF cars. But the overall effect can be gained by tuning in other cars. Maybe more.

Oh, the AYC is brought up. I remember that was odd in GT5. It makes the car constantly waggle in the straight! Into corners, it's back to stable. So I quit using it and gave it a fully adjustable LSD. Anyone remember that?

Upto GT6, I haven't met those cars, yet. Busy on other things...
 
The Mitsubishi 3000GT VR4 / Dodge Stealth R/T also had an AWS system. Many real-world owners would disable/remove it due to the unnerving feeling of slight oversteer, even though traction was actually being maintained. Also the new Porsche 918 has a highly advanced form where the rear wheels turn in the opposite direction as the front during low speed, and then they turn the same direction during high speed cornering- similar to the small pics in the OP.

Wild stuff. Good thread.
 
xSNAKEx
Currently, all cars have the same traction control system, the same ASM, the Same ABS etc.

How about when you buy a car in stock form, it only has what the car has in real life? You should need to buy and install TCS, ASM, ABS etc on cars that don't have it, and amongst the ones that do, they should behave like their real life counterparts, unless you mod the car.
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I would be already happy if they gave us the information what kind of assists this car has in real life. So you can decide on your own if you turn it on or off.

Of course it is possible to find that info for yourself, but that is a lot of work for all of us.
 
LS Chiou
As I remember in GT5, one or two models of Toyota Celica came with '4WS' in their model name. That should mean 4 wheel steering.

In a vague memory, they seemed a little more lively than other FF cars. But the overall effect can be gained by tuning in other cars. Maybe more.

Oh, the AYC is brought up. I remember that was odd in GT5. It makes the car constantly waggle in the straight! Into corners, it's back to stable. So I quit using it and gave it a fully adjustable LSD. Anyone remember that?

Upto GT6, I haven't met those cars, yet. Busy on other things...
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I must admit I have not checked out an evo either to see if the AYC is still there, I just remember it being there in gt5. Same as you too busy doing other things lol.

research
The Mitsubishi 3000GT VR4 / Dodge Stealth R/T also had an AWS system. Many real-world owners would disable/remove it due to the unnerving feeling of slight oversteer, even though traction was actually being maintained. Also the new Porsche 918 has a highly advanced form where the rear wheels turn in the opposite direction as the front during low speed, and then they turn the same direction during high speed cornering- similar to the small pics in the OP.

Wild stuff. Good thread.
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Yup, by no means was I listing all the cars that have it, and it seems now that newer cars are starting to do it now like the Porsche you mentioned proving how ahead of the time these older cars that came with it were. It was popular amongst Japanese cars in the late 80s early 90s (which is my favorite era), and IMO it is a great technology that if done right improves the ability of a car.

The Porsche steering opposite of the front wheels and together at high speeds is nothing new or revolutionary. All systems I am aware of like Nissans HICAS and Mazdas 4WS etc done this already. Funnily enough it is currently fitted to all 4 of 4 of the cars in my family. 2 Nissas and 2 Mazdas.

If you have a hardcore car with tons of power tuned suspension and chassis, then yes I understand why it can be problem a computer messing with the rear wheels as you drive , because the car is tight and extremely responsive to minute movements so its just easier/simpler to remove it, saving weight in the process as well, but for a stock or mildy tuned car it is a godsend.

I think the fact many people including professional drivers are not used to the rear stepping out like that, feeling that its sliding even though its not and it actually improves traction, just dismiss the system because they are uncomfortable with it, and not because it it is a disadvantage to have.
 
LS Chiou
As I remember in GT5, one or two models of Toyota Celica came with '4WS' in their model name. That should mean 4 wheel steering.

In a vague memory, they seemed a little more lively than other FF cars. But the overall effect can be gained by tuning in other cars. Maybe more.

Oh, the AYC is brought up. I remember that was odd in GT5. It makes the car constantly waggle in the straight! Into corners, it's back to stable. So I quit using it and gave it a fully adjustable LSD. Anyone remember that?

Upto GT6, I haven't met those cars, yet. Busy on other things...
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Ahhhh Mitsubishi's AYC in GT6 seems to have been 'rectified', in the sense that the EVOs turn corners like an FR car; virtually no understeer. But then again I think that AYC is some sort of e-diff device so it should help with cornering. The Evo 6 prize car is good evidence, even on sport hards it corners as though it is on softs AND it feels like a planted FR car.
 
xSNAKEx
It shouldn't be too hard to implement. The physics engine is already there and would take care of it nicely. All they need to do is program how much the rear wheels turn and at what speed. This information is not particularly hard to gather, especially compared to many other aspects of making a racing sim game.

I know on the Mazdas and Nissans I have owned, driving with 4 wheel steering and without 4 wheel steering makes a HUGE difference to the way the car drive. You can ussually just pull a fuse to disable the system so its easy to compare. It is almost like driving an entirely different chassis. Well, the rear wheels are turning so you would expect this!
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I think generally this is a great idea, this is sort of two threads in one, although both of the topics relate to one another.

Regarding the special abilities, there are a number of cars where this would be fantastic, the new Golf VII GTI's LSD would be a bit unique, there are certain traction controls that you can dial down that aren't numbers but settings (Ferrari's Ice, Normal, Sport and Race comes to mind), ect, heaps of these they should investigate, atleast when it comes to Premiums, and by GT7 we can only hope all cars are premium (even if some of the premiums are brought from GT5/6, might still be good enough, idk).

But in terms of the TCS, ABS, ASM, ect, more standard controls, I think maybe having them all work the same consistent way, but having the ability to disable ABS if a car does come with it, maybe even dialing it down from the settings sheet to 1, AND for cars that don't have ABS, you'd need to buy an aftermarket ABS system under the braking sheet. I think rules like this for all of the potential driving aids would be fantastic, as it is having Skid Force Recovery, TCS and ABS on cars from the 60s is ridiculous, but its not so ridiculous, if the parts were bought additionally, like they would need to be in real life.
 
Conza
. I think rules like this for all of the potential driving aids would be fantastic, as it is having Skid Force Recovery, TCS and ABS on cars from the 60s is ridiculous, but its not so ridiculous, if the parts were bought additionally, like they would need to be in real life.
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Just thought I'd let you know skid force recovery makes no more or no less sense on a car from the 60s or 2014, because it is not a real driving aid.
You cannot buy the part to install it, because it alters the physics engine of the tyres, so its not a "technology"
 
You should also be able to put a car in specific settings. Such as "race" mode on a Ferrari or "M" mode on a BMW. This can be easily added to the TA menu.
 
xSNAKEx
Just thought I'd let you know skid force recovery makes no more or no less sense on a car from the 60s or 2014, because it is not a real driving aid.
You cannot buy the part to install it, because it alters the physics engine of the tyres, so its not a "technology"
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You could be right, I was just thinking of systems like Toyota's VDIM, where it takes control of the car when it thinks its out of control, to prevent skidding (sounds similar ot SFR, could be completely different).
 
Conza
You could be right, I was just thinking of systems like Toyota's VDIM, where it takes control of the car when it thinks its out of control, to prevent skidding (sounds similar ot SFR, could be completely different).
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No I am definitely right. There is no debate over what skid recovery force is, it is an alteration to how much friction with the tyres have with the ground once they exceed their grip limit, it has nothing to do with any real world system and it never will.

ProjectWHaT
You should also be able to put a car in specific settings. Such as "race" mode on a Ferrari or "M" mode on a BMW. This can be easily added to the TA menu.
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Yup all these things are needed to nicely round out the simulation aspect of whats its like to drive each vehicle.

By no means do I expect them to get every car perfect, but at least the popular premium cars, yes it would be a amazing addition to feel each of the cars the way they feel with each setting in real life.
 
HuskyGT
Very interesting indeed. I always wondered since old GT's if my Z32 Fairlady had a working HICAS. Since GT2 I've been watching the replays carefully to see if there is a change in the rear tire angle, but there isn't at all.
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Wow, this brings back a memory... I learned of skylines having a simple 4w steering system from GT 2 marketing at some point. Never really noticed in game but that type of system was amazing tech for its time... And one that contributed to the Skylines killer reputation pre R32?
 
The majority of 4 wheel steering systems are crap and you wouldn't want it simulated. Nissan's hicas is unpredictable and most users remove the feature when upgrading their 240's and skylines. Evo ayc is usually also swapped for an aftermarket lsd as the ayc is known to be a weak link.
 
Ive never seen an S13 that didn't have super hicas removed.
 
You can't imagine the glee that coursed through my body when I discovered my Skyline didn't have HICAS - it's really not a feature you want if you're really pushing cars and as such I'm extremely glad it isn't implemented.

It was a terrible system that was always unpredictable and I'll never understand anyone who willingly keeps it on their car.
 
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