Will GT ever simulate "special" abilities of cars?

[NixxxoN]

Four wheel steering is just another way of saying "lets increase the weight and the price of the car and get no real benefit (besides having a bit more turning radius for parking)"

 

[xSNAKEx]

The majority of 4 wheel steering systems are crap and you wouldn't want it simulated. Nissan's hicas is unpredictable and most users remove the feature when upgrading their 240's and skylines. Evo ayc is usually also swapped for an aftermarket lsd as the ayc is known to be a weak link.

You can't imagine the glee that coursed through my body when I discovered my Skyline didn't have HICAS - it's really not a feature you want if you're really pushing cars and as such I'm extremely glad it isn't implemented.

It was a terrible system that was always unpredictable and I'll never understand anyone who willingly keeps it on their car.

While I agree with you that when under certain conditions it can be unpredictable especially if something is not working right, its not true that its a "terrible system", and many people even who even race their cars, opt to keep it. Theres no reason to take it of a street driven car unless its malfunctioning and you cant afford to fix it.

Actually Let me blow you away and do one better than you just being dumbfounded why people willing keep it. When I bought my Skyline it came without it and you could not imagine the glee that coursed through my body when and I re fitted it. Bet you never expected that kind of stupidity?

In fact it allows you to push HARDER, as the rear end has more traction. I have personally felt this on my own car.

Without HICAS, if you are for example taking a right angle turn, if you push the accelerator a tad it is easy to make the rear end break out. With HICAS you can apply so much more power before the rear looses traction. It feels like the car is loosing traction because the rear is swinging around or "crabwalking", but in fact your tyres have not lost traction. Many drivers including racing drivers are not used to this feeling and it unnerves them so they dismiss the system immediately.

Many people also take it out simply to be "hardcore", add it to the list of mods, or hear people like you talking about how bad it is and just become lemmings following the trend. Once you lock the HICAS the "loose" rear end feeling that was there with HICAS, is now gone, people immediately notice a stiffer rear end and and say the rear is more "planted". This confirms their original thoughts that HICAS is bad. However it does not mean that in fact their car handles better or is more "planted at all" It just means they feel that, so they are happy.

Lastly I'll leave you with a quote from a Japanese test driver.

I remember 1 interview on "the skyline story" with the falken GTR and THIS question was asked to the japanese driver, And he said "The hicas is removed to save weight, if the hicas was there, you could corner quicker easier, but overall the benifits of the weight reduction is why they do this"

 

[Aquarelle]

Immaturity

I do adore how you responded to my opinion with snark and sarcasm, that's great.

I PERSONALLY find HICAS to be a horrible system because of how it feels - sure, it may well let you put down more power while cornering "Once you get used to it"; but if something feels horrible and un-natural it's not worth the benefits to me PERSONALLY

I would never willingly use HICAS because I PERSONALLY don't like the system.

Just because YOU feel differently doesn't give you the right to talk down to me with snarky remarks like a child.

 

[xSNAKEx]

I do adore how you responded to my opinion with snark and sarcasm, that's great.

I PERSONALLY find HICAS to be a horrible system because of how it feels - sure, it may well be faster "Once you get used to it"; but if something feels horrible and un-natural it's not worth the benefits to me PERSONALLY

I would never willingly use HICAS because I PERSONALLY don't like the system.

Just because YOU feel differently doesn't give you the right to talk down to me with snarky remarks like a child.

I was simply responding to what you said but I disagreed with you. My tone is just a side effect as thats how I explain things.

 

[Lessen]

I wish I could turn off stock features. For instance, my DD is an EP3 Civic Si. The closest thing to that in-game is the JDM Type-R. I can tune down the HP to match my US spec real life car, but I cannot disable the LSD which my car does not have. Of course my car also has a Honda Factory Performance package on it too. Not sure how that aligns with the JDM spec car. Probably way more detail than we can ever expect though.

 

[Jebiga]

Hicas / Super Hicas and the attesa all wheel drive system should be implented in GT6 because without these you can't call it a GT-R / Fairlady / Silvia
Same with mitsubishis 3000gt or toyota celica.

Personally if i would own a skyline i would only do minor changes on my car because it has already enough power from Stock. (About 300~ PS)

 

[HKS racer]

PD does spend alot of time and effort on modelling each cars specifics, atleast visually and sonically.

No.

 

[MrGrado]

I wish I could turn off stock features. For instance, my DD is an EP3 Civic Si. The closest thing to that in-game is the JDM Type-R. I can tune down the HP to match my US spec real life car, but I cannot disable the LSD which my car does not have. Of course my car also has a Honda Factory Performance package on it too. Not sure how that aligns with the JDM spec car. Probably way more detail than we can ever expect though.

You can fit LSD and tune it to 5/5/5.

 

[CarBastard]

I think it's far beyond their technical reach. Take for example traction control. Most high-end cars like the 599GTB and the MP4-12C were designed to be really quick with the traction control and the cars in some cases can drive worse without the traction control in real life. But in GT they just have an intrusive and very primitive traction control that doesn't do them any favors and they can be undriveable without TC. The MP4 isn't bad at all, but the 599GTP is absolutely disgusting to drive without TC. And yet, they haven't been able to implement this. Or launch controls. Or make all dashboards in premium interiors work properly.

That's what I call pushing the virtual divide!

 

[research]

... Theres no reason to take it of a street driven car unless its malfunctioning and you cant afford to fix it.

Actually Let me blow you away and do one better than you just being dumbfounded why people willing keep it. ... I re fitted it. Bet you never expected that kind of stupidity?

Many people also take it out simply to be "hardcore", ... or hear people like you talking about how bad it is and just become lemmings following the trend.

Are you ok, xSNAKEx? Have you been abused in such a manner throughout your life? @ace004 and @UrieHusky were merely stating observations, or was that not obvious to you? You seem to have taken their observations VERY personally and decided to attack and berate them for it. That was so uncalled for, words cannot describe. These are GTPlanet members, not your schoolmasters from years past, or whoever else taught you to behave so abhorrently, directly or indirectly.

In fact, a number of us have now observed that these AWS systems are often disabled by real-world owners, and YOU seem to be the only one who tries to put down any such notions as ill-advised. Does this tell you anything?

I'll tell you some things. First you need to find a new way of "explaining things", as you put it. Second, maybe you should learn to step back from your own perception of reality (because that's all it is, a perception), and have a few looks from others points-of-view. This will help you greatly in navigating this world, which seems to be giving you some serious trouble.

That was disgusting, and it's not the first time I've seen you treat people in such ways..

 

[Rotorist]

The Mitsubishi 3000GT VR4 / Dodge Stealth R/T also had an AWS system. Many real-world owners would disable/remove it due to the unnerving feeling of slight oversteer, even though traction was actually being maintained. Also the new Porsche 918 has a highly advanced form where the rear wheels turn in the opposite direction as the front during low speed, and then they turn the same direction during high speed cornering- similar to the small pics in the OP.

Wild stuff. Good thread.

What Porsche 911GT3 and 918 have is known from the end of the decade of 80's. Honda Accord, Toyota Carina, Mazda 626 and Nissan Skyline had it implemented at that time. Later on Mitsubishi 3000GT had it too. All these systems were acting exactly as Porsche says. So, noting new here.

 

[Rotorist]

You can't imagine the glee that coursed through my body when I discovered my Skyline didn't have HICAS - it's really not a feature you want if you're really pushing cars and as such I'm extremely glad it isn't implemented.

It was a terrible system that was always unpredictable and I'll never understand anyone who willingly keeps it on their car.

Chris Harris who tested Porsche 991GT3 few months ago said exactly the opposite. It increases the grip levels of the rear especially in high speed where stability is the most important factor. Of course it needs some practise to get used to how the car behaves.

 

[ace004]

Its been a while since I owned my 240sx with an sr20det. Both of my 240's didn't have hicas so I didn't need to research it much. But doesn't removing hicas involve adding a delete bar and only removing some lines and adding some banjo fittings? It doesn't seem like weight reduction is the main benefit. The rear wheels changing angles never really is/was a good idea at race speed. If you go on half the nissan related forums you will find people eliminating that feature by the masses. Mostly because people report unpredictable handling and unpredictable oversteer at race speed. Now if you snake don't agree then thats fine but you have to agree that you are the minority because that's a fact.

 

[Aquarelle]

Chris Harris who tested Porsche 991GT3 few months ago said exactly the opposite. It increases the grip levels of the rear especially in high speed where stability is the most important factor. Of course it needs some practise to get used to how the car behaves.

HICAS physically turns the rear wheels in conjunction to the front, the system in the 911 essentially works as "Active toe" as it were, changing the alignment while turning to improve grip without sacrificing straight line stability and speed which would be compromised if you were to run those alignment settings full time.

I never said anything bad about the system the new Porsche 911 GT3 uses, I am speaking strictly of Nissan's HICAS system.

 

[xSNAKEx]

Are you ok, xSNAKEx? Have you been abused in such a manner throughout your life? @ace004 and @UrieHusky were merely stating observations, or was that not obvious to you? You seem to have taken their observations VERY personally and decided to attack and berate them for it. That was so uncalled for, words cannot describe. These are GTPlanet members, not your schoolmasters from years past, or whoever else taught you to behave so abhorrently, directly or indirectly.

In fact, a number of us have now observed that these AWS systems are often disabled by real-world owners, and YOU seem to be the only one who tries to put down any such notions as ill-advised. Does this tell you anything?

I'll tell you some things. First you need to find a new way of "explaining things", as you put it. Second, maybe you should learn to step back from your own perception of reality (because that's all it is, a perception), and have a few looks from others points-of-view. This will help you greatly in navigating this world, which seems to be giving you some serious trouble.

That was disgusting, and it's not the first time I've seen you treat people in such ways..

I don't sugar coat my attitude, approach, or words when explaining myself, and yes I can see how that often offends people. I make no apologies for it as the point of posts like that is your point across, not try carefully consider peoples feelings before posting anything.
As I said though, it was never my intention to offend, and the whole sarcasm/offensive, etc thing was never even in my mind as I wrote, though if I read it back I see how it can read like that.

If you think somebody writing a car related post on gtplanet that is simply inconsiderate towards peoples feelings is "disgusting" you either live an incredibly good life or you have a pretty bad perspective of the word we live in.

The fact that many people disable these AWS systems tells me that many people disable these AWS systems, but nothing about the AWS system itself. You need a lot more information than just what other people do. But it does tell me what kind of person someone is if they do things simply because others are.

Its been a while since I owned my 240sx with an sr20det. Both of my 240's didn't have hicas so I didn't need to research it much. But doesn't removing hicas involve adding a delete bar and only removing some lines and adding some banjo fittings? It doesn't seem like weight reduction is the main benefit. The rear wheels changing angles never really is/was a good idea at race speed. If you go on half the nissan related forums you will find people eliminating that feature by the masses. Mostly because people report unpredictable handling and unpredictable oversteer at race speed. Now if you snake don't agree then thats fine but you have to agree that you are the minority because that's a fact.

Its about a 20Kg weight saving. I am definitely in the minority. I never claimed otherwise.

I too would be rather nervous about having HICAS on a high speed, high risk, tight narrow track like at Nurburg. I would definitely want it off for tracks like that if I was pushing to the limit as I don't trust an old system like HICAS enough for that. The slightest shimmey may send you off track or upset your plan. But for most other uses its quiet fine if you get used to it and don't freak out over the rear end feeling like its breaking loose.

Its actually a pretty well designed system, if anything goes wrong it defaults to dead centre, and the amount of control the rear end has is not really huge enough to send you in a wild tail spin even at pretty high speed, But if you are pushing centimetres close to the edge of a track you definitely do not want it unless you consider the circumstances you are in and change your driving style.

Newer systems are probably getting much better. HICAS may not be perfect but AWS technology in general if done right is superior to just 2 wheel steer hands down.

 

[Normalaatsra]

The description of the Nissan Skyline Coupe CKV36 does mention the 4-wheel steering. If they can say that, then they should simulate that.

 

[ace004]

I don't sugar coat my attitude, approach, or words when explaining myself, and yes I can see how that often offends people. I make no apologies for it as the point of posts like that is your point across, not try carefully consider peoples feelings before posting anything.
As I said though, it was never my intention to offend, and the whole sarcasm/offensive, etc thing was never even in my mind as I wrote, though if I read it back I see how it can read like that.

If you think somebody writing a car related post on gtplanet that is simply inconsiderate towards peoples feelings is "disgusting" you either live an incredibly good life or you have a pretty bad perspective of the word we live in.

The fact that many people disable these AWS systems tells me that many people disable these AWS systems, but nothing about the AWS system itself. You need a lot more information than just what other people do. But it does tell me what kind of person someone is if they do things simply because others are.



Its about a 20Kg weight saving. I am definitely in the minority. I never claimed otherwise.

I too would be rather nervous about having HICAS on a high speed, high risk, tight narrow track like at Nurburg. I would definitely want it off for tracks like that if I was pushing to the limit as I don't trust an old system like HICAS enough for that. The slightest shimmey may send you off track or upset your plan. But for most other uses its quiet fine if you get used to it and don't freak out over the rear end feeling like its breaking loose.

Its actually a pretty well designed system, if anything goes wrong it defaults to dead centre, and the amount of control the rear end has is not really huge enough to send you in a wild tail spin even at pretty high speed, But if you are pushing centimetres close to the edge of a track you definitely do not want it unless you consider the circumstances you are in and change your driving style.

Newer systems are probably getting much better. HICAS may not be perfect but AWS technology in general if done right is superior to just 2 wheel steer hands down.

Ok so what I remember is true. BTW do you know of any real life cars using Hicas that are doing well in motorsports? Also what newer cars are using AWS? Is the GTR35 using it? I still don't understand why anyone would want hicas. You can create predictable oversteer with lsd and suspension. Why would anyone tracking near the limit want a system that isn't predictable when they can get near the same results by other means? Either way I really don't care as I don't have hicas in my 240, and currently drive an evo. And if you want it then good for you, it's your car enjoy it.

 

[xSNAKEx]

Ok so what I remember is true. BTW do you know of any real life cars using Hicas that are doing well in motorsports? Also what newer cars are using AWS? Is the GTR35 using it? I still don't understand why anyone would want hicas. You can create predictable oversteer with lsd and suspension. Why would anyone tracking near the limit want a system that isn't predictable when they can get near the same results by other means? Either way I really don't care as I don't have hicas in my 240, and currently drive an evo. And if you want it then good for you, it's your car enjoy it.

No I do not not know of any cars in motorsport that use it. Motor sport usually has very strictly defined regulations so I would guess it would be banned from being used in most applications. In addition to this the system would add weight to the car which is a constant struggle in motorsport, and most racing car drivers probably would not be comfortable with the technology. There are many amateur racing drivers that OPT to keep the system in cars like the Skyline, 300zx etc.

Some newer cars like Porsche and BMW have just recently started using 4WS in their new range. The R35 GTR does not use it.

You can use 4WS in addition to those things you mentioned for a greater effect. You need to feel the system on a car to understand what it can do for a chassis. It is totally unlike LSD or suspension changes.

Once you get used to 4WS, especially the Mazda version, It feels very odd to go back to normal. Whereas with 4WS the cars cornering feels very fluid, easy and natural, once you take of the system it feels like your car has suddenly turned into a brick which you are sitting at the front of trying to make it go around a corner by pulling it with a string from the front. Solid things do not turn as well as fluid things. So in a sense it feels like the front end is turning and then the back 2/3 of the car is unwillingly being dragged in that direction diagonally, instead of willingly going straight toward the new vector like with 4WS. The car also feels like it is 2-3 metres longer once you turn of 4WS, as it has somehow turned into a limo.